# Polish insult **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 24, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802 "2009-06-24T04:51:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/141 "2009-07-17T01:27:44Z")
Jews and blacks have a longer history of oppression and discrimination in America. Not so the Poles. You’re more like Canadians than Jews. Get. Over. Yourself. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/142 "2009-07-17T01:43:39Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > “Forget the Jews, it’s the triceratops that are the real swindlers.” Glad you changed that because “Forget the Jews, it’s the tyrannosaurs that are the real dummies” was a STUPID joke. :rolleyes: Okay, before I lived in the Chicago area (I don’t know if it still is but Chicago was once known for having the second largest Polish population after Warsaw) I lived in Cleveland, another town with a [del]large[/del] vast Polish population, and where I heard my first Polak jokes from my classmates at a Catholic elementary school, so you can guess what ethnicity an awful lot of them were. Forty-five years ago they might’ve had some power to offend left, but that’s two generations ago and Poles, at least in those areas, are so completely assimilated that the power the jokes had has (almost, since there are a couple holdouts in this thread) dissipated. (deleted some comments that, if taken the wrong way, were REALLY offensive) ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/143 "2009-07-17T01:45:58Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Jews and blacks have a longer history of oppression and discrimination in America. Not so the Poles. You’re more like Canadians than Jews. > > Get. Over. Yourself. Not by the media. Especially not in the past few decades. Even if what you say is true, so this is some kind of game of "my ethnic group was more discriminated against then yours so you’re not allowed to insult my ethnicity but I can insult yours? So if a new ethnic group comes to America its OK to insult them with slurs because they did not have a history of disrimination against them? Since your bringing up the past, I will say in the past few decades the Poles have been the MOST discriminated against group in the US by the media. Blacks and Jews on national TV weren’t pounded as having subhuman intelligence like the Poles were. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/144 "2009-07-17T01:52:25Z")
Y’know, by insisting on things that just ain’t so, you are setting yourself up to be the butt of the very jokes you are complaining about. You are painting a big bullseye on your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/145 "2009-07-17T02:03:26Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > Not by the media. Especially not in the past few decades. > > Even if what you say is true, so this is some kind of game of "my ethnic group was more discriminated against then yours so you’re not allowed to insult my ethnicity but I can insult yours? It is a game. That’s what you’re missing. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/146 "2009-07-17T02:19:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Glad you changed that because “Forget the Jews, it’s the tyrannosaurs that are the real dummies” was a STUPID joke. :rolleyes: > > Okay, before I lived in the Chicago area (I don’t know if it still is but Chicago was once known for having the second largest Polish population after Warsaw) I lived in Cleveland, another town with a [del]large[/del] vast Polish population, and where I heard my first Polak jokes from my classmates at a Catholic elementary school, so you can guess what ethnicity an awful lot of them were. Forty-five years ago they might’ve had some power to offend left, but that’s two generations ago and Poles, at least in those areas, are so completely assimilated that the power the jokes had has (almost, since there are a couple holdouts in this thread) dissipated. > > (deleted some comments that, if taken the wrong way, were REALLY offensive) I don’t know any Polish organizations that like these so called Polish jokes. To Poles who I have spoken to that say they “like” Polish jokes and tell me they tell them themselves, when I asked them why do they do this when it only degrades their image, they say “Well I GO ALONG with these Polish jokes because if I don’t, I will get so much abuse from Non-Poles abusing us with them”. That’s pretty sad. And its weak. Other ethnic groups would be fighting like hell against these insult jokes because they know they would look bad if they didn’t fight them. Lets get something straight, like what White Eagle said. These are NOT JOKEs they are ethnic Slurs against Poles. The fact that some of you Polish allow these insult jokes and claim to like them just makes you look like an ethnic punching bag for all the other ethnic groups in Chicago and Cleveland. Your at the bottom of the barrel as far as having any political clout or respect from other groups of people because you enjoy degrading yourselves, assuming these other Poles around you think like you. (I’m hoping that most Poles in Chicago stand up for their ancestry the way every other ethnic group does). IF what you say is true about Poles in Chicago, then maybe its not surprising that Chicago has the largest Polish population in the US but the Poles there are at the bottom of the barrell as far as having any political clout. Polish people in Chicago are dumped on by other ethnic groups and the politicians because these people know they would never tolerate these type of insult jokes about themselves, so therefore the Polish must have to have inferior intelligence if they tolerate these insult jokes. Non Poles in Chicago see the Polish as being weak because they allow so much abuse from others. Maybe Poles are ignored by the politicians in Chicago because these politicians really do believe that Polish people have subhuman intelligence and are just a bunch of “dumb Polacks” meant to be everyone’s ethnic punching bag to be pushed around. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/147 "2009-07-17T02:22:15Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It is a game. That’s what you’re missing. You may be right. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/148 "2009-07-17T02:39:04Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > Lets get something straight, like what White Eagle said. These are NOT JOKEs they are ethnic Slurs against Poles. Why can’t they be both, like the late Earl Warren? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/149 "2009-07-17T02:55:31Z")
The thing is, historical context does matter. Jews and blacks have gotten beaten up and worse by the same people who thought it was okay to tell nigger or kike jokes. There’s been no such violence perpetrated against Poles or Canadians or Italians or whatever (in this country, at least), so jokes about them only rise to the level of good-natured ribbing. I’ve never seen someone tell a Polish joke and really _mean_ it, it’s just to be goofy. On the flip side, I _do_ find the word Polack to be borderline offensive. Someone who uses that word, especially in “dumb Polack” really is dismissing Poles in a mean and bigoted way. But there’s a world of difference between “dumb Polack” and “solar-powered flashlight.” The former isn’t a Polish joke, while the latter is. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/150 "2009-07-17T03:01:24Z")
[NOT moderating–just speaking as a fellow Doper] Okay, **US News Review** , we get it. This is the issue that brought you here. You’ve made 32 posts on the SDMB, and every single one has been in this thread. You’ve said basically the same thing 32 times, and you’re adding nothing new to the discussion. Maybe it’s about time to take a deep breath and talk about something else for a little while? ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/151 "2009-07-17T04:46:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The thing is, historical context does matter. Jews and blacks have gotten beaten up and worse by the same people who thought it was okay to tell nigger or kike jokes. There’s been no such violence perpetrated against Poles or Canadians or Italians or whatever (in this country, at least), so jokes about them only rise to the level of good-natured ribbing. I’ve never seen someone tell a Polish joke and really _mean_ it, it’s just to be goofy. > > On the flip side, I _do_ find the word Polack to be borderline offensive. Someone who uses that word, especially in “dumb Polack” really is dismissing Poles in a mean and bigoted way. But there’s a world of difference between “dumb Polack” and “solar-powered flashlight.” The former isn’t a Polish joke, while the latter is. That’s not true. Actually Italians and Poles have been the target of hate crimes. When growing up my friend’s house was vandalized with the vandalizer calling up saying “How did you like your window smashed you dumb Polack?” Then he went on taunting the family with Polish jokes he heard from late night TV bigots days before. Then the vandalizer would come up with his own Polish jokes saying “How many rocks does it take to break a Polack’s window?” and other sick crap like that. Fortunately he was caught. Many fights Polish people got into growing up in the 70’s and 80’s was for no other reason then being “Polish”. I myself had my fair share of fights because people really believed the stereotype that Poles are inferior and could be abused verbally with impunity (like they saw on TV) which sometimes led to physical altercations if the Polish person dared to not go along with all the verbal abuse/jokes about his Polish ethnicity. Wikipedia has an article in the “Anti-Polish Sentiment” section talking about how Polish tourists in 2003 were stabbed in Palm Springs CA because they were Polish. The teen attackers attacked them because they knew they were Polish. On the editorial page of the Jan. 23 2004 Daily News there is an article called “Hate’s terrible toll”. To make a long story short, a Russian guy named Valery Charnavaus was beaten and killed in New York City because his attackers THOUGHT he and his friends were “Polacks”. Frankly many hate crimes against Poles, Poles don’t report because they feel embarassed about them. When they are reported the authorities and media are hesistant about reporting them as hate crimes because they are not Black, Jewish, Hispanic or some other non -white ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/152 "2009-07-17T04:50:56Z")
I’m impressed. You finally managed to bring up a cite that’s less than 20 years old. I even managed to confirm it [here](http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/opinions/2004/01/23/2004-01-23_beautiful_monument__waste_of.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/153 "2009-07-17T05:08:52Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I’m impressed. You finally managed to bring up a cite that’s less than 20 years old. I even managed to confirm it [here](http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/opinions/2004/01/23/2004-01-23_beautiful_monument__waste_of.html). I should of course note that this is a case of actual bigotry against someone thought to be a Pole, and not a case of someone making Polish jokes in the media. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/154 "2009-07-17T05:26:18Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I should of course note that this is a case of actual bigotry against someone thought to be a Pole, and not a case of someone making Polish jokes in the media. Not that it makes it any better, but I doubt that incident has anything to do with media-spread bigotry or some kind of silly Hollywood anti-Polish sentiment. It sounds like a, sadly, typical urban ethnic territorial dispute. The Poles here in Chicago were just as defensive back in the day against the blacks, Italians, Jews, Mexicans, Irish, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/155 "2009-07-17T05:32:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Not that it makes it any better, but I doubt that incident has anything to do with media-spread bigotry or some kind of silly Hollywood anti-Polish sentiment. It sounds like a, sadly, typical urban ethnic territorial dispute. The Poles here in Chicago were just as defensive back in the day against the blacks, Italians, Jews, Mexicans, Irish, whatever. Come to think of it, I saw a movie recently called [You Kill Me](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796375/). The main character is a member of a Polish mob family in Buffalo that’s fighting over territory with an Irish family. It’s a black comedy movie, so I hardly expect it to be true to reality, but I remember thinking it was interesting because I hadn’t realized Polish ethnicity was still that strong in America. But I have very little experience with the Northeast, which is probably why. ---
**Author:** ![US\_News\_Review](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@US\_News\_Review](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/US_News_Review)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/156 "2009-07-17T08:43:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Because TV/Hollywood is often associated with them, and I was curious whether this was the angle you were coming from, that’s all. So you think most people associate Hollywood with Jews? There are many non-Jewish actors in Hollywood. Well since you have brought up the Jews let me say this. Although there have been some Jews involved in the anti-Polish bias from Hollywood in some of my previous examples, I do not blame Jews for Anti-Polish bias. First of all, there are good and bad in all groups of people including Jewish and Polish people. Secondly, there are many Jews I know who are against Anti-Polish jokes as well as prejudice against ANY group of people. Jewish American columnist Phil Mushnick has spoken out against Polish jokes that were in a show that led to them eventually being taken out. I believe the show was called “The Simple Life”. He spoke out against this Anti-Polish prejudice more then once in his NY Post column and even worked with the NY Polish American Congress Anti-Bigotry Commitee on this. There is also Rabbi Marc Gellman of the “God Squad” who wrote against all forms of insult jokes, including Polish jokes, when that one Seinfeld character was making racist jokes about Blacks several years ago. Gellman basically said there should not be a double standard in condeming ethnic/racial insult jokes. They should ALL be condemned. In talk radio, Jewish American talks show hosts have generally been pretty fair with Polish people and have time to time talked about Poland being a good ally of America. National Talk show host Michael Savage has agreed with some of his Polish callers in the past about how Polish jokes are deragatory against Polish people. He was even the one who told one of his Polish callers that the origin of the Polish jokes was from the Nazis since the Nazis saw the Poles as “less then human since they were Slavic” (Savage’s words). Savage also agreed with another Polish caller that Samuel Jackson shouldn’t have made anti-Polish jokes in the movie “SWAT” and that “SWAT” was deragatory against Poles. Also on a personal level, I have grown up with many Jews and in general I feel they are decent people. They don’t like ethnic insult jokes against anyone. Actually some of them have encouraged me to speak out against any kind of bigotry because as they say “bigotry against one group is bigotry against all groups”. Their words. I am also Pro-Israel. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/157 "2009-07-17T13:47:52Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > Since your bringing up the past, I will say in the past few decades the Poles have been the MOST discriminated against group in the US by the media. I would say that homosexuals are probably the most discriminated-against group in the media. Having a comedic gay character in media doing stereotypical gay things today is as common as having a comedic black character doing stereotypical black things in the early days of cinema. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/158 "2009-07-17T14:25:06Z")
> [@White\_Eagle](#): > > When you recognize that “Polish joke” is a euphemism for “ethnic slur” it takes on a different flavor. Calling people stupid based on their Polish heritage is an ethnic slur. The problem here is that the joke that inspired this thread does not do that. It’s a joke about the stupidity of the non-Polish character who tells it. Both of you are also thoroughly overstating the viciousness of the jokes, but aside from that, do you see what we’re talking about with the _Land of the Lost_ joke? I think the posters here have been very patient in explaining it. > [@](#): > > “Forget the Jews, it’s the triceratops that are the real swindlers.” This is pretty funny, in fact, because the idea of a swindling triceratops is so absurd. You’ve now achieved something like Will Ferrell’s character’s joke. > [@](#): > > But I hope that posters would denounce it rather than telling Jews or African Americans or Mexicans that they should “lighten up” about being the butt of “jokes” about their stereotypes. You’ve been told to lighten up because these jokes are so ridiculous (a submarine with a screen door) that only the stupidest of the stupid believe them. And Polish jokes lack the weight of historical oppression behind them in the U.S., which changes the way they are understood. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/159 "2009-07-17T14:54:34Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > So you think most people associate Hollywood with Jews? There are many non-Jewish actors in Hollywood. To the first sentence, I’m not exactly sure how you reach that summary given what I wrote, but, since you’re curious, a large number still do think Hollywood is controlled by Jews ([22%](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein19-2008dec19,0,4676183.column) as of last count, down from 50% in 1964.) To the second, no kidding. The way you present your argument sounds very conspiratorial, like there’s some sort of secret cabal purposefully maligning Polish-Americans in Hollywood. These types of kooks often use Hollywood and Media as shorthand for “Jew.” This is not exactly news. I was wondering if you were that type of kook. You have explained adequately that you are not. Which I am relieved to hear. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802/160 "2009-07-17T16:25:18Z")
> [@US\_News\_Review](#): > > IF what you say is true about Poles in Chicago, then maybe its not surprising that Chicago has the largest Polish population in the US but the Poles there are at the bottom of the barrell as far as having any political clout. Polish people in Chicago are dumped on by other ethnic groups and the politicians because these people know they would never tolerate these type of insult jokes about themselves, so therefore the Polish must have to have inferior intelligence if they tolerate these insult jokes. Non Poles in Chicago see the Polish as being weak because they allow so much abuse from others. > > Maybe Poles are ignored by the politicians in Chicago because these politicians really do believe that Polish people have subhuman intelligence and are just a bunch of “dumb Polacks” meant to be everyone’s ethnic punching bag to be pushed around. Are we talking about the same Chicago? Mine’s in Illinois. If we are talking about the same Chicago, then you are apparently making shit up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-insult/500802.md?page=9)