# Polish Mig 29s **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 9, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773 "2022-03-09T20:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/1 "2022-03-09T20:18:02Z")
Why do the Poles want to fly their Ukraine bound Migs to a US air force base instead of flying or trucking them across the border to Ukraine? Do they want to be sure they get some nice shiny new F-16s in return? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/2 "2022-03-09T20:23:20Z")
They’re trying not to provoke Russia directly. It is a weird dance going on. Also shiny new F-16s would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/3 "2022-03-09T20:24:56Z")
I was wondering and you explained it succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/4 "2022-03-09T20:28:01Z")
But they don’t mind if the USA provokes Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/5 "2022-03-09T20:30:53Z")
They’re trying to dance around with some sort of legal-sounding niceties by pretending that it’s the USA gifting the Fulcrums to Ukraine, not Poland. When in reality everyone can see it as the fig leaf that it is. Russia won’t be fooled for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/6 "2022-03-09T20:43:07Z")
Let’s say Poland does provide Migs directly to Ukraine, and Russia decides to retaliate against Poland because Russian jets are being shot down, which risks entanglement with NATO, which could escalate the situation into a massive war with or without nukes. If we believe Russia is willing to take that risk then arming Ukraine with jets is probably not a great idea unless you’re hoping for WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/7 "2022-03-09T20:47:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > But they don’t mind if the USA provokes Russia? Clearly the US doesn’t want to either, which was why the response from the US was a big “WTF”? As much as I want Ukraine to have the planes, Poland’s position make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/8 "2022-03-09T21:01:03Z")
“All right, so, here’s the situation. We disagree on whether to deliver the fighters to Ukraine, and if so, how it should be done. We’re at an impasse. So, in the interim, we’re going to park them at this airfield, a few kilometers from the border. We’ll leave the keys in the ignition, so to speak, in case we need to move them in a hurry. Then we’re all going to go into this nearby building, and close the door, and we’re going to talk about the situation. We’ll be very focused on this conversation, and not paying attention to any distractions outside. We won’t come out until we have a decision. It could take a while. A long, long while.” ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/9 "2022-03-09T21:06:09Z")
Or we could just take Donny’s idea and paint a Chinese flag on each of them. That will really confuse the Russians. > **[Trump told RNC donors that the US should put China's flag on planes to bomb...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-us-should-put-china-flag-on-planes-bomb-russia-2022-3)** > > "And then we say, China did it, we didn't do, China did it, and then they start fighting with each other and we sit back and watch," Trump said. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/10 "2022-03-09T21:18:21Z")
It looks like it might be that none of the NATO countries wants to take credit for supplying offensive weapons to Ukraine, even though they publicly admit to supplying defensive weapons. From my point of view I don’t see the difference between a surface to air missile designed to shoot a bad plane down, or a good plane to shoot a bad plane down. Any “weapon” is designed to destroy the enemy. But it seems everyone wants a fake cloak of “plausible deniability” to hide behind should things get ugly (aka escalate and drag in additional countries). I guess you can sit and wait for the enemy to come at you with a rifle or rocket launcher, but you have to send your planes out to attack them. It’s ridiculous as everyone is playing this silly game of pretending to half-believe the propaganda of each side. To me this is like a bar full of drunk sports fans talking out loud and trying to figure out the cover story they’ll tell to the cops about why the fight happened before they start the actual fight. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/11 "2022-03-09T21:34:14Z")
Perhaps aircraft that can seriously damage the convoy is a lot worse than a few hand held rockets, the name escapes me, that can take out a couple of tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/12 "2022-03-09T22:55:22Z")
the convoy is seriously self-consuming itself …(food, gas, spares …) - give it a week or two, and they will surrender ( **I really predict that they will do this** ) I heard people refer to the convoy as the “ **worlds largest self propelled POW prision** ” … and that is NOT too far off the thruth ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/13 "2022-03-09T23:10:31Z")
I can’t believe that such a large army could screw up that much. These are not the guys who beat the Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/14 "2022-03-09T23:16:30Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Also shiny new F-16s would be nice. Maybe newly polished F-16s? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/15 "2022-03-09T23:26:09Z")
The guys who beat the Germans were fighting for their country, their homes, their families. These guys now are fighting for… what? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/16 "2022-03-09T23:27:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > But they don’t mind if the USA provokes Russia? It’s the long-standing diplomatic practice called “let’s you and him fight”, as espoused by Ambassador J. Wellington Wimpy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/17 "2022-03-10T00:30:49Z")
They were also raping women to death and stealing everything, even if nailed down. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/18 "2022-03-10T00:32:12Z")
Also a Raymond Chandler Marlowe crack. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/19 "2022-03-10T00:57:32Z")
I suspect there is a room full of analysts in the Pentagon who have concluded that the planes just won’t have enough affect on the outcome of the war to make it worth the geopolitical risks. We’re all armchair generals with only a fraction of the information used to make decisions like this. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773/20 "2022-03-10T01:02:20Z")
Multiple people on the SDMB also had that exact same idea unironically, “Why don’t we just fire cruise missiles next to Ukraines borders into Russia and claim that it’s the Ukrainians firing them?!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polish-mig-29s/960773.md?page=2)