# "Polite" things that are actually impolite **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951 "2016-08-15T20:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/301 "2016-08-19T15:01:40Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > There is a Pit thread just for [ZPG Zealot and her handshake rape thing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=797160). > > Can we take this hijack there? > There is a way. It’s called google and there shows absolutely zero evidence of the handshake thing being Roma. None whatsoever. **ZPG Zealot** has been challenged to produce any evidence. Short of that, I suggest people stop taking it seriously. > > Her arguments are basically disingenuous and imply that a personal belief is a cultural belief. Look at the following: > Note that she never states that handshaking is part of the Roma culture, yet reading that would give that impression. > > She’s never directly stated it’s a Roma thing and other Roma posters in the past have stated it’s not. > > So, again, **Zealot**. Is this a Roma subculture? If so, what is the name of the subculture? Where is any evidence this is not some personal agenda? You comment that the thread has been hijacked, you note that there’s another thread dedicated to the discussion, and yet you then proceed to address it further in _this_ thread? Drop it. Further comment along these lines will incur warnings. That applies to all thread participants. Take it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/302 "2016-08-19T15:51:45Z")
“Red wine with fish,” said Bond. “Well that should have told me something.” > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m amused when people think WASP etiquette guides are holy writ. > > The goal of etiquette should be to make people feel comfortable and valued. A great many people view it as a way to make others feel small and tacky and, most importantly, not from the right family/background/class/race. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Precisely–and in that case I think it renders the word “etiquette” meaningless to attach it to such vile behavior. \*Pace \*jsgoddes, there’s a point, I think, where the goal of etiquette is \*precisely \*to make people feel out of place. This is as distinct from manners (or what Chronos calls “real etiquette” below), which is more about maintaining civility and helping everyone get along. > [@Chronos](#): > > All cultures everywhere have etiquette. And in fact, the actual rules of real etiquette are the same everywhere: Rules like “don’t make other people uncomfortable”, and “don’t impose on people”, and “don’t assume that people are going to do something without asking them”. But many societies insist on creating extra, superfluous rules that have nothing to do with real etiquette, like “don’t eat the main course with a salad fork or vice versa”, or “don’t congratulate a bride”. These rules are idiosyncratic to particular cultures and societies, and will bear no resemblance to the superfluous rules from other societies. The superfluous rule against congratulating brides comes from WASP culture, and so it might be referred to as a WASP rule. Calling it a WASP rule does not imply that other cultures don’t have etiquette, because it isn’t actually an etiquette rule to begin with. Using the correct fork, passing the port the correct way, saying “best wishes”, breaking bread with your hands, not the butter knife… these have nothing whatsoever to do with making people feel at ease. They’re shibboleths. The right kind of people know them, the wrong kind of people don’t. It’s no surprise that ZPG Zealot considers “best wishes” so obvious that people not using it must be rude, nor that practically everyone else here has never heard of it. Shibboleths have to be restricted to the in-group, or what’s the point? This is why etiquette books are for social climbers - you don’t learn it from a book, you learn it by living it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/303 "2016-08-19T16:09:32Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Shibboleths have to be restricted to the in-group, or what’s the point? This is why etiquette books are for social climbers - you don’t learn it from a book, you learn it by living it. It was always amusing, in a sad way, working in a bridal shop and seeing people engaging in culture wars with soon-to-be in-laws or even within the same family. In a lot of cases, people who had very little real power liked to wield what power they could get their hands on by making other people unhappy. It wasn’t all families, or most, but it was common enough to make me sad for a whole lot of angry, resentful folks who made big deals out of small matters to make big deals out of small lives. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/304 "2016-08-19T18:34:19Z")
I’m an immigrant from the Western states to the East Coast and, even after 10 years here, remain very uncomfortable with the “cheek kiss” greeting. My anxiety actually rises when I know someone is coming in for the hello smooch, cuz I’m not good at being the kisser nor kissee and there have been many embarrassing accidents involving lip-to-lip contact, snout smooches, and so on. If there were a polite, non-asshat way to prevent this exchange I would seize upon it. But when in Rome . . . ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/305 "2016-08-19T18:39:10Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I’m an immigrant from the Western states to the East Coast and, even after 10 years here, remain very uncomfortable with the “cheek kiss” greeting. My first experience with the French version was hilarious. A French woman we know initiated it with me and I planted a big-old wet smooch on each of her cheeks. My gf started laughing and the French woman looked embarrassed. Apparently it’s not done that way, but how was I to know?:smack: ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/306 "2016-08-19T18:54:39Z")
Eating on the street in Singapore, 1983, with a couple of Chinese friends. We’re having clay pot, got rice and fish and other yummy goodness inside, mmmm! Other diners appear to be spitting the bones out onto the plastic draped tables, as they eat, I notice. Just to be sure I wait till my companions do the same before indulging myself. So I spit out some bones and look up to see both my friends, first aghast, then, laughing loudly and uproariously. I was all, “WHAT? Everybody else is doing it! You both did it!” They were all, “You poor uncivilized white girl!” Turns out you don’t so much spit out the bits, as just let them drop from your mouth. A distinction I had failed to notice, yet apparently of the utmost importance. Oopsy! (I begged them all the way home, not to tell everyone when we got there. Her Mom, siblings, the Aunties, but they were having none of it. True to their word they told them all! To more uproarious laughter!) ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/307 "2016-08-19T19:06:13Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My first experience with the French version was hilarious. A French woman we know initiated it with me and I planted a big-old wet smooch on each of her cheeks. My gf started laughing and the French woman looked embarrassed. Apparently it’s not done that way, but how was I to know?:smack: LOL! My worst cheek kiss thus far has been giving my BIL a big, wet ear smooch; not quite sure how this happened . . . ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/308 "2016-08-19T19:53:54Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I’m an immigrant from the Western states to the East Coast and, even after 10 years here, remain very uncomfortable with the “cheek kiss” greeting. My anxiety actually rises when I know someone is coming in for the hello smooch, cuz I’m not good at being the kisser nor kissee and there have been many embarrassing accidents involving lip-to-lip contact, snout smooches, and so on. > > If there were a polite, non-asshat way to prevent this exchange I would seize upon it. But when in Rome . . . What’s really awkward is when you’re used to kissing people hello (and are super uncomfortable with that, yourself!), and you find yourself having just kissed someone who’s not used to it, either. I’m always mortified, but I can’t really say, “I didn’t want to do that, either! I just thought I had to!” because that’s _super_ weird. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/309 "2016-08-19T20:22:26Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My first experience with the French version was hilarious. A French woman we know initiated it with me and I planted a big-old wet smooch on each of her cheeks. My gf started laughing and the French woman looked embarrassed. Apparently it’s not done that way, but how was I to know?:smack: You’re supposed to check an etiquette book before any possible situation. Don’t you think just a few minutes of your time is worth showing respect for others and not coming across like a doofus? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/310 "2016-08-19T21:06:32Z")
> [@](#): > > My worst cheek kiss thus far has been giving my BIL a big, wet ear smooch; not quite sure how this happened I wonder if there has ever been a kisses gone wrong thread? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/311 "2016-08-19T21:56:21Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > LOL! > > My worst cheek kiss thus far has been giving my BIL a big, wet ear smooch; not quite sure how this happened . . . I kissed a friend right on the lips – I zigged when I shoulda zagged! No biggie in that case, luckily!! I was used to the shake hands/pull in for a cheek kiss when meeting folks for the first time when I was in NYC and hung out with Spanish folks. Moved up here and went back to visit, and had been away long enough to forget and had to relearn. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/312 "2016-08-19T23:01:16Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > So in order to promote discussion about other relevant answers to the OP, **I am asking that there be no more talk of the handshake issue in this thread.** Right! I want to stay on that wishing the bride “Congratulations” thing. 😃 My informal survey found two who were aware of the rule (but didn’t consider a violation to be a passive aggressive insultof the bride) and four who were completely confused by my even asking the question. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/313 "2016-08-20T00:32:10Z")
I congratulate the bravery of people who actually ask the question of those around them. It’s nice to see that most folks aren’t afraid of figuring out whether their beliefs have a rational basis. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/314 "2016-08-20T00:37:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My first experience with the French version was hilarious. A French woman we know initiated it with me and I planted a big-old wet smooch on each of her cheeks. My gf started laughing and the French woman looked embarrassed. Apparently it’s not done that way, but how was I to know?:smack: I’m a Brit living and working in France for 10 years. I still don’t have a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/315 "2016-08-20T01:45:33Z")
> [@Jennshark](#): > > I’m an immigrant from the Western states to the East Coast and, even after 10 years here, remain very uncomfortable with the “cheek kiss” greeting. My anxiety actually rises when I know someone is coming in for the hello smooch, cuz I’m not good at being the kisser nor kissee and there have been many embarrassing accidents involving lip-to-lip contact, snout smooches, and so on. > > If there were a polite, non-asshat way to prevent this exchange I would seize upon it. But when in Rome . . . I guess I’m ‘‘used’’ to it by now, as much as I hate it, but honestly, it’s very uncomfortable to kiss someone you hate who you know also hates you. Some of the people I have to kiss think I’m beneath them because of my social status/class/religion whatever, and I think they’re beneath me because they’re abusive, narcissistic, entitled assholes. I have to admit though, for the ones I’m genuinely happy to see, it is kind of nice. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/316 "2016-08-20T02:44:54Z")
Check this out. Last year I saw someone wearing white after Labor Day. Like three weeks after. I was so freaked out, I just wanted to scream at them. I mean, what possesses some trashy assholes to provoke honorable folk like that? I could see people around me were also angry, but i figured if they could swallow back the bile, well, so could I. I was trembling, but I walked away. Thanks for letting me vent. I’m actually trembling all this time later. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/317 "2016-08-20T02:51:30Z")
> [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](#): > > I’m a Brit living and working in France for 10 years. I still don’t have a clue. My gf _made_ me practice with her so I don’t [del]fuck up[/del] embarrass her next time. You kind of bring your cheek (face) next to hers and kiss her aura (if auras were real). You keep it subtle; you don’t go **MWAH**. No tongue. You do one side then the other, then back to the first side to show how much you care. As you might guess, I run in terror if I see a French babe.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Waxwinged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@Waxwinged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waxwinged)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/318 "2016-08-20T03:18:53Z")
“Where is that accent from?” - had that asked of me a couple of times in rural Appalachia, with exactly 0 prelude. Might be considered “polite interest” by some people, but is actually rude as fluff. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/319 "2016-08-20T03:41:26Z")
> [@Waxwinged](#): > > “Where is that accent from?” - had that asked of me a couple of times in rural Appalachia, with exactly 0 prelude. Might be considered “polite interest” by some people, but is actually rude as fluff. Taking offense to things not meant to be rude is, itself, rude, if you understand rudeness to mean throwing sand into the gears of our society’s social interaction. Now, don’t get me wrong. Rudeness can be necessary. Some social mechanisms deserve to rust solid and get put in a museum so they can’t hurt people anymore. However, that doesn’t really seem to be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jennshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Jennshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennshark)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/320 "2016-08-20T12:55:20Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > I wonder if there has ever been a kisses gone wrong thread? 😉 And . . . DONE! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=17)