# "Polite" things that are actually impolite **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951 "2016-08-15T20:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/101 "2016-08-16T20:26:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes, definitely agree. If I’m taking out-of-towners out for dinner, I’ll try to have three suggestions. “We could go to A&Q Pizza, they’ve got great pizza and an informal atmosphere. Or we could try The Giggling Pea, they’re a famous vegetarian restaurant that even non-vegetarians like. Or there’s Ten Kilo, which is a strange but delicious Caribbean pasta joint that’s way better than that sounds. Does any of that sound good?” And if they still shrug, I’ll choose one and we’ll go. Man, now I wanna go to all of those places. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/102 "2016-08-16T20:31:21Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So I take it the old taint punch is straight out then too? Old taint punch? No, you want to make a fresh batch for each wedding. > [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I love stereotypically taciturn New Englanders. If anyone tries to chat with a stranger in the elevator, it’s via the weather. “Cold out today.” “Ayuh” is an accepted and complete response to these statements. > > (I can tell people “from away”. They chat you up. If they aren’t from away and they’re chatting up a stranger, they’re salespeople.) Hee. I’m from away and actually find folks here more talkative – since I moved here from NYC where you have to refuse to notice someone on fire in the elevator with you. I keep it to a neutral generic greeting though – nothing too personal. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/103 "2016-08-16T20:32:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Sure. Chivalry is sexist bullshit, and the mounted knights for which it’s named were just extra-well-armed thugs :). No argument from me here. But there are some people who do like parts of it at least. I see that the bended knee proposal stuff seems to still be pretty popular, for example. Bottom line IMHO is you got to go with the flow and not get hung up on whether something is a violation of some sort of etiquette or whether some part of etiquette is “sexist bullshit” or not. Live and let live, and don’t try to fight the world over whether someone conformed exactly to such-and-such etiquette rule or over every stupid little micro-aggression, and everyone is better off. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/104 "2016-08-16T20:33:48Z")
I dunno. To me saying “Best Wishes” to a bride is very similar to saying “Good Luck!” As in “Good luck, I hope you got one of the good ones who won’t beat you or cheat on you or spend all your money!” But maybe I’m reading too much into it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/105 "2016-08-16T20:37:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No argument from me here. But there are some people who do like parts of it at least. I see that the bended knee proposal stuff seems to still be pretty popular, for example. > > Bottom line IMHO is you got to go with the flow and not get hung up on whether something is a violation of some sort of etiquette or whether some part of etiquette is “sexist bullshit” or not. Live and let live, and don’t try to fight the world over whether someone conformed exactly to such-and-such etiquette rule or over every stupid little micro-aggression, and everyone is better off. I sort of agree. Chivalry as play-acting is fine–I play Dungeons and Dragons, ferchrissakes, I’m not above playacting using medieval mores. And I agree with going with the flow, to some degree. If I know ahead of time that someone appreciates old-school etiquette, and if it’s not something offensive, I’m probably going to go along with it. If it’s sexist etiquette, I’ll probably try to avoid being put in the situation where I’m expected to go with it. If someone’s going to have a crazy overreaction, I’m not going to be around them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/106 "2016-08-16T20:39:32Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Hee. I’m from away and actually find folks here more talkative – since I moved here from NYC where you have to refuse to notice someone on fire in the elevator with you. This was one of my _favorite_ things about working in NYC. You are not obligated to talk to anyone you don’t have direct business with. Now I’m back in the Midwest where everybody has to wave to everybody else and blargh. I’m not a misanthrope, I swear. I just get worn out talking to strangers. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/107 "2016-08-16T20:40:22Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Old taint punch? No, you want to make a fresh batch for each wedding… You can refresh the old stuff with a bit of Everclear. Now I am imagining a wedding where the first song played is “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger but she ain’t…” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/108 "2016-08-16T20:46:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I sort of agree. Chivalry as play-acting is fine–I play Dungeons and Dragons, ferchrissakes, I’m not above playacting using medieval mores. I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying the bended knee proposals are “play-acting” but the congratulations/best wishes distinction is not? I don’t see any distinction. Both contain the exact same implication. > [@](#): > > And I agree with going with the flow, to some degree. If I know ahead of time that someone appreciates old-school etiquette, and if it’s not something offensive, I’m probably going to go along with it. If it’s sexist etiquette, I’ll probably try to avoid being put in the situation where I’m expected to go with it. If someone’s going to have a crazy overreaction, I’m not going to be around them. What’s “offensive” is a judgment, of course. I myself am not much of a chivalrous guy, and I would never do the bended knee stuff. I don’t make any distinction between brides and grooms at engagements/weddings, and assume anyone I’m dealing with is not the type to get hung up on this either, even if it’s not what they’re used to. But if someone told me ahead of time that in such-and-such social circle they would be offended if I used the “wrong” term, I would go with it and not refrain from attending on that basis. No skin off my back. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/109 "2016-08-16T20:47:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Now I am imagining a wedding where the first song played is “I ain’t saying she’s a gold digger but she ain’t…” …messin with no BEST WISHES ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/110 "2016-08-16T20:49:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying the bended knee proposals are “play-acting” but the congratulations/best wishes distinction is not? I don’t see any distinction. Both contain the exact same implication. As long as everyone involved in the interaction is having fun, I’m cool with it. If one person is doing it only because the other expects it, and the other finds it obnoxious, that’s no longer cool. > [@](#): > > But if someone told me ahead of time that in such-and-such social circle they would be offended if I used the “wrong” term, I would go with it and not refrain from attending on that basis. No skin off my back. I probably would, too–like I said, unless it was a huge deal (I’m expected to not speak to any woman I’m not married to at the event, I’m expected not to let any black people attend, etc.), I’ll go with it if I know. If someone overreacts, though, that’ll be the last time I choose to interact with them, because life’s too short for that shit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/111 "2016-08-16T20:50:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. The well-wishers disagree with an archaic, sexist etiquette guideline. > > Miss Manners is the most respected guide to American etiquette of the last fifty years, I’d venture. Now that you’ve seen her call behavior much milder than yours “churlish” (presumably for your behavior she’d use words like “shocking,” “bizarre,” or “appalling”), are you ready to follow etiquette for issuing an apology to the people you’ve treated with such baseness? I can’t find Miss Manners’s guide to correct apologies online, but surely it involves a handwritten note on quality stationery. I find myself wondering if the written-off ex-acquaintances would want an apology. I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/112 "2016-08-16T20:53:54Z")
Since others have mentioned bicycle-car interactions, here’s one that happens to me a lot: I’m riding down the street, and someone’s pulling out of a driveway or the like. Then, they see that there’s a bike coming, and so they think that they must immediately stop, so the bike can get past. Except that by this time, they’re already partly pulled out, and blocking the bike lane. I now have a choice: I can swing out into the car lane, hope that any cars that might be behind me see and leave me enough room, and hope that the person pulling out doesn’t finish doing so right into me, or I can slam on the brakes, kill my momentum, and wait for the car in the driveway to finish pulling out. Pull out or don’t, either one will work, but don’t go just halfway. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/113 "2016-08-16T20:55:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …messin with no BEST WISHES I loled on that one… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/114 "2016-08-16T20:58:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As long as everyone involved in the interaction is having fun, I’m cool with it. If one person is doing it only because the other expects it, and the other finds it obnoxious, that’s no longer cool. > > I probably would, too–like I said, unless it was a huge deal (I’m expected to not speak to any woman I’m not married to at the event, I’m expected not to let any black people attend, etc.), I’ll go with it if I know. If someone overreacts, though, that’ll be the last time I choose to interact with them, because life’s too short for that shit. I’m mostly with all this, with the proviso that you can’t always get everything you want in life and you need to compromise on things, and in a given circumstance this might be the thing that makes the most sense to compromise on. So, for example, if you have someone with an overly restrictive social rule that you despise, you might decide that that’s the last time you choose to interact with them - unless it was your parents or in-laws who had that attitude, in which case you might decide to suck it up. Or if you thought something was odious, but it was an attitude shared by 99% of people in our society and you’d be severely limiting yourself unless you went along, you might factor that in as well. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/115 "2016-08-16T20:58:43Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Far too often? > > Who invites people that are likely to insult them to their own wedding? Who goes to weddings to deliberately insult the bride? Who goes to weddings where either or both happen far too often? > > You need to hang out with (or at least go to weddings with) better people. What can I say, I have a large circle of friends and family? The bigger the group the greater chance some of them will be people that have to be culled from that circle. Once again the reason formal etiquette is so important is that allows people who hate each other interact civilly when forced into each other’s company. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/116 "2016-08-16T21:02:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m mostly with all this, with the proviso that you can’t always get everything you want in life and you need to compromise on things, and in a given circumstance this might be the thing that makes the most sense to compromise on. Of course. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > What can I say, I have a large circle of friends and family? The bigger the group the greater chance some of them will be people that have to be culled from that circle. Once again the reason formal etiquette is so important is that allows people who hate each other interact civilly when forced into each other’s company. Formal etiquette works when it’s used as a tool of civility. When it’s used as a weapon or as a justification for nastiness and even violence, as you use it here and elsewhere, it has the same relationship to etiquette as ISIS has to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/117 "2016-08-16T21:04:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. The well-wishers disagree with an archaic, sexist etiquette guideline. > > Miss Manners is the most respected guide to American etiquette of the last fifty years, I’d venture. Now that you’ve seen her call behavior much milder than yours “churlish” (presumably for your behavior she’d use words like “shocking,” “bizarre,” or “appalling”), are you ready to follow etiquette for issuing an apology to the people you’ve treated with such baseness? I can’t find Miss Manners’s guide to correct apologies online, but surely it involves a handwritten note on quality stationery. Miss Manners would say if the well-wishers disagreed with a respected etiquette guideline so much they could not bear to utter the proper, correct words, but would only be willing to say phrases that insult the bride, they should not attend the wedding. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/118 "2016-08-16T21:11:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Of course. > > Formal etiquette works when it’s used as a tool of civility. When it’s used as a weapon or as a justification for nastiness and even violence, as you use it here and elsewhere, it has the same relationship to etiquette as ISIS has to Islam. The only nastiness and even violence is caused by people who think it’s fun to make passive-aggressive insults (no, change that, these kind of insults aren’t really passive-aggressive they are deliberate attempts to provoke a nasty, violent reaction) during what should be a happy, joyous occasion. Once again, if you can’t take the time to do a five second search on the internet or while standing up at the book store, the bride, the groom, and their families have a right to feel insulted that you have such callous regard as to come to an such an important event in their life and behave rudely. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/119 "2016-08-16T21:15:49Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The only nastiness and even violence is caused by people who think it’s fun to make passive-aggressive insults (no, change that, these kind of insults aren’t really passive-aggressive they are deliberate attempts to provoke a nasty, violent reaction) during what should be a happy, joyous occasion. This is a bizarre, shocking, and appalling misinterpretation of how people actually think. Nobody but nobody attempts to insult a bride by saying “congratulations.” IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. Many brides–as I showed earlier–are surprised and dismayed by a **lack** of congratulations. > [@](#): > > Once again, if you can’t take the time to do a five second search on the internet or while standing up at the book store, the bride, the groom, and their families have a right to feel insulted that you have such callous regard as to come to an such an important event in their life and behave rudely. They have a right to do whatever they want. But nobody should misinterpret what they’re doing as following etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/120 "2016-08-16T21:16:56Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Miss Manners would say if the well-wishers disagreed with a respected etiquette guideline so much they could not bear to utter the proper, correct words, but would only be willing to say phrases that insult the bride, they should not attend the wedding. A basic rule of etiquette is this: it doesn’t tell you how people should treat you. It tells you how you should treat others. Another person’s violation of etiquette is theirs to deal with. Your own horrifying violation of etiquette is yours to deal with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=7)