# "Polite" things that are actually impolite **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951 "2016-08-15T20:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/141 "2016-08-17T10:55:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The girl is generally not similarly thought to have won anything, officially at least. That was certainly my experience. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/142 "2016-08-17T10:59:03Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Hee. I’m from away and actually find folks here more talkative – since I moved here from NYC where you have to refuse to notice someone on fire in the elevator with you. I keep it to a neutral generic greeting though – nothing too personal. Funny how that perception changes based on where you’re from. Compared to Southerners, it’s a horrible, rude bunch. I quite like them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/143 "2016-08-17T12:16:32Z")
Yeah, a form of etiquette that most people don’t know about and whose underlying reasoning is sexist and misogynistic. Yeah, let’s ostracize people for not adhering to that rule. Good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/144 "2016-08-17T12:36:54Z")
It seems to me that when _anyone_ is going through _any_ joyous occasion, it is appropriate to congratulate them. Weddings and engagements are joyous engagements for both parties involved (or at least, if they’re not, we’re expected to pretend that they are anyway), so why wouldn’t one congratulate both the bride and the groom? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/145 "2016-08-17T12:51:19Z")
Something occurred to me. Marriage for “true love” is a pretty recent development. Not to say it didn’t occur back in the old days, but often marriage was for other reasons. Women often stood to gain social status or power or better economic circumstances. Even today, it ain’t that uncommon for the bride to be to get extra excitement from telling mom, family and friends she’s landed a doctor/lawyer rather than Bob that works in the garden department at Lowes (no offense intended Bob!). So, in practical terms it often was, and not that rarely still is the case of the woman “landing a good one”. Now, if this rule of not “congratulating” the groom is old as well, that leaves us with something odd. We shouldn’t do that because it makes the bride look like her motives are not that pure. At worst she might just be a prostitute looking to land a long term contract. But again, we know that often in the past, and still some today, 'true love" ain’t what all is going on here. But we dare not “imply” it with congratulations! So, that leaves us with the question of why is it rude? I guess it is like the elephant in the room. Let’s pretend it doesn’t exist. The rudeness isn’t the suggestion. It’s the crassness of pointing out the unpleasant truth? And to think some people say I am not a romantic 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/146 "2016-08-17T13:16:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, a form of etiquette that most people don’t know about and whose underlying reasoning is sexist and misogynistic. Yeah, let’s ostracize people for not adhering to that rule. Good idea. The thing most people do know this at least in every social circle I’ve ever been in. The largest number of people I have ever encountered not aware of this etiquette custom has been you guys here on the Dope and it really surprises me. It’s like hearing people say they’ve never heard of toasters or printed newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/147 "2016-08-17T13:20:21Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > What I find curious is that our beloved ZPG goes ‘by the book’ when it comes to the etiquette that suits her, but discards it when it offends _her_ cultural mores. > > It is to laugh. > > 😉 Really, I like you to come up with a single example of that. I go out of my way not of offend people and usually follow whatever the accepted etiquette is in a culture as long as I don’t have to commit major crimes or compromise my integrity such as betraying my marriage vows. The thing I find ridiculous and quite frankly offensive is how many people don’t bother to do things the right way according to their own culture while at the same time giving me attitude for not assimilating. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/148 "2016-08-17T13:39:43Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Something occurred to me. Marriage for “true love” is a pretty recent development. Not to say it didn’t occur back in the old days, but often marriage was for other reasons. Women often stood to gain social status or power or better economic circumstances. Even today, it ain’t that uncommon for the bride to be to get extra excitement from telling mom, family and friends she’s landed a doctor/lawyer rather than Bob that works in the garden department at Lowes (no offense intended Bob!). > > So, in practical terms it often was, and not that rarely still is the case of the woman “landing a good one”. > > Now, if this rule of not “congratulating” the groom is old as well, that leaves us with something odd. We shouldn’t do that because it makes the bride look like her motives are not that pure. At worst she might just be a prostitute looking to land a long term contract. > > But again, we know that often in the past, and still some today, 'true love" ain’t what all is going on here. > > But we dare not “imply” it with congratulations! > > So, that leaves us with the question of why is it rude? I guess it is like the elephant in the room. Let’s pretend it doesn’t exist. The rudeness isn’t the suggestion. It’s the crassness of pointing out the unpleasant truth? > > And to think some people say I am not a romantic 🙂 I see it like not wearing a white lace dress and a veil unless you are the bride at the wedding. It’s one of those nice, old traditions grounded in gentility and formal good manner that help mark weddings as events out of the ordinary. You should want to take extra care to not be crass and rude at someone’s wedding. Above all else you should not want to do anything that jeopardizes the potential happiness of the couple like cast aspersions on the bride’s character or motivations for marrying. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/149 "2016-08-17T13:49:14Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The thing most people do know this at least in every social circle I’ve ever been in. The largest number of people I have ever encountered not aware of this etiquette custom has been you guys here on the Dope and it really surprises me. It’s like hearing people say they’ve never heard of toasters or printed newspapers. More like medieval forges or Mesopotamian cylinder seals. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/150 "2016-08-17T13:58:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **ZPG Zealot** : > > Really, I like you to come up with a single example of that. I go out of my way not of offend people and usually follow whatever the accepted etiquette is in a culture as long as I don’t have to commit major crimes or compromise my integrity such as betraying my marriage vows. Weren’t you the one who refused to shake hands with anyone? Because shaking hands when you meet someone is a much more widely-known and accepted etiquette rule than congratulating only one member of a couple on the event of their marriage. For the record, even [Miss Manners](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-07-15/features/9907150154_1_bride-and-groom-etiquette-dear-miss-manners) admits that most people nowadays are unaware of the rule, and that modern brides are highly unlikely to be offended by “congratulations”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/151 "2016-08-17T14:08:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The thing most people do know this at least in every social circle I’ve ever been in. You’re at work today, right? Next ten students you see, ask them this question: “Hey, if a friend of yours announced she was getting married, what would you say to her?” Don’t give any hints or anything. If the person says anything other than “congratulations,” ask a follow-up question: “Would it be appropriate to tell her ‘congratulations’?” For bonus points, ask it of the next ten staff members you see as well. Report back. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/152 "2016-08-17T14:22:07Z")
Well, this not saying congratulations to the bride is in fact a tradition. It’s old, it’s not that well-known anymore, I don’t think many people care about it particularly, although some people do (apparently more than I thought). Me, personally, I say something other than “congratulations” to convey my good wishes to the person – at this point, it’s mostly habit. However, to be judgy or snotty or rude or to even act like I’m noticing to someone else who says “congratulations” would be the height of gauche. What do I even care? They are sharing a nice sentiment. I can manage my own manners, or as Sister Adrian used to tell me, “tend to your own garden.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/153 "2016-08-17T14:36:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I have never in my life heard about the distinction between ‘‘congratulations’’ and ‘‘best wishes’’ and I can’t for the life of me figure out how such a distinction is in any way meaningful. After this thread, I’m thinking I will never, ever, as long as I live, use English to congratulate or wish the best to anybody again. Y’all get a _felicidades_ and if you don’t like it you can kiss my passport (without lipstick, please, I wouldn’t want to have to explain that to a cop). ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/154 "2016-08-17T15:06:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For the record, even [Miss Manners](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-07-15/features/9907150154_1_bride-and-groom-etiquette-dear-miss-manners) admits that most people nowadays are unaware of the rule, and that modern brides are highly unlikely to be offended by “congratulations”. That’s been mentioned and linked to repeatedly, but she doesn’t acknowledge it because what only matters are the circles that _she_ runs in. You know, the same circle that feels similarly to what she’s expressed about the bizarre handshake-rape thing. So, yeah… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/155 "2016-08-17T15:27:12Z")
What about same-sex weddings? Is “congratulations” OK for those? ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/156 "2016-08-17T15:28:33Z")
Well, I certainly didn’t mean to create such an uproar. I totally get that most people don’t know about it and like I said, I know that when somebody congratulates a bride that they are not trying to insult her. Unless I _know_ they know better and I understand exactly what they are saying. However, it still makes me cringe a bit on the inside. It’s nowhere near as bad as including a gift registry in the invitation, asking for money in lieu of gifts, or asking people to buy tickets to the wedding. As far as it being sexist, that could be said for almost all wedding traditions. To me it is better to err on the side of caution and not say congratulations to the bride. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/157 "2016-08-17T15:45:39Z")
In an arranged marriage, especially one in which the husband will beat the wife for as little as shaking hands with another man, congratulations _would_ seem a bit crass, you don’t congratulate chattel in change of ownership. As it is supposed to be a positive occasion, condolences are also inappropriate. It does seem that the best you _could_ do, for someone in ZPGz’s circles, is wish them well, hoping they don’t get beaten or raped too much. I may try to get them into touch with a battered women’s shelter, or some kind of cult deprogramming program, though, especially if it were a friend or relative. Maybe that’s why the prohibition on hand shaking is so big, make sure that no one slips their women any literature that shows that their treatment is _not_ the norm, and that it is _not_ tolerated in the larger society that we live in. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/158 "2016-08-17T15:51:32Z")
… he’ll beat you every night, but only when he’s sober, so you’re all right! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/159 "2016-08-17T17:12:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Weren’t you the one who refused to shake hands with anyone? Because shaking hands when you meet someone is a much more widely-known and accepted etiquette rule than congratulating only one member of a couple on the event of their marriage. > > For the record, even [Miss Manners](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-07-15/features/9907150154_1_bride-and-groom-etiquette-dear-miss-manners) admits that most people nowadays are unaware of the rule, and that modern brides are highly unlikely to be offended by “congratulations”. I refuse to touch men other than husband unless it’s necessary to save a human life (i.e., stopping someone from walking into traffic or performing CPR). I think men that try to embarrass or otherwise force women to touch them are assholes and I would wonder if they are not potential rapists. Why this is such a foreign concept is a complete mystery to me? Of course, how so many people could grow up in the United States and not know congratulating a bride is rude is also hard to believe. It’s like this large group of people announcing they never heard of closing a bathroom door when using the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951/160 "2016-08-17T17:35:48Z")
If it makes you feel better, I wouldn’t shake your hand. Yours truly, A potential rapist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polite-things-that-are-actually-impolite/762951.md?page=9)