# Political Compass #29: Marijuana should be legalised. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163 "2004-06-25T10:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/61 "2004-06-28T01:07:32Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > But (to play devil’s advocate here and reverse a previous argument directed at me), should we not also dismiss any obligation to assist a wider range of self-caused harms, such as the health problems caused by bad diet?(Nobody forced you to eat all those burgers). Injury due to road accidents(nobody forced you to drive a car). etc… There’s a small but important disctinction to be made here between drug use and your example. While overeating is definitely a plague, it is still the result of abusing stuff necessarily for survival. While car accidents are tragic, car usage is a necessary part of making a living for the vast majority of people. Since both of those have benefits, the risks are worthwhile. Drug use is neither beneficial or necessary. It is rolling the dice for entertainment purposes. There is no legitimate benefit of recreational drug use, therefore it should not be covered, any more than suicide should be covered by life insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/62 "2004-06-28T01:17:57Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > Norml has a [page](http://www.norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516) on their Web site where you can look up each state’s marijuana laws. Anything over 20 grams (0.7 ounces) in Florida is a felony. Florida also has a Mandatory Minimum sentencing policy, which forces a judge to give mandatory prison time regardless of the circumstances of the marijuana possession. Jesus, that’s draconian! I looked up my state, Ohio, and discovered that I was wrong: up to _1,000_ is a misdemeanor. Thinking about it, though, I’m not really surprised that Florida is more strict than Ohio, even though I was initially bemused-- this being the “heartland” of America and somewhat conservative (The “drug court” issue during last election was a dismal failure.) The population of elderly people, who tend to vote more than younger folks, would keep legalization off the ballots; any politician who suggested such a thing would be comitting political suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/63 "2004-06-28T01:28:58Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Drug use is neither beneficial or necessary Where can I file for disagreement? Many drugs have many useful purposes. You merely choose to overlook them or wave them off as “entertainment.” ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/64 "2004-06-28T01:30:01Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Drug use is neither beneficial or necessary. It is rolling the dice for entertainment purposes. There is no legitimate benefit of recreational drug use, therefore it should not be covered, any more than suicide should be covered by life insurance. So the pursuit of happiness is not a valid aim in life? Should car accidents that happen when you are on vacation not be covered by insurance? What about people who choke while eating an extra donut just for the taste of it? Drownings in the city pool? Swimming is no more necessary than drug use. Who makes the judgement about what activity has a legitimate benefit and which does not? You? A judge? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/65 "2004-06-28T01:39:45Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Where can I file for disagreement? > > Many drugs have many useful purposes. You merely choose to overlook them or wave them off as “entertainment.” OK, all you have to do to change my mind is convince me of the benefits of recreational use of cocaine or heroin. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/66 "2004-06-28T01:46:43Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > OK, all you have to do to change my mind is convince me of the benefits of recreational use of cocaine or heroin. Cocoa plants have been used as anasthetics and stimulants for thousands of years. In any case, this is a thread on marijuana (lest you be stricken down with glaucoma and become unable to read the title) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/67 "2004-06-28T01:50:52Z")
I understand that. You guys took off on a tangent based upon something I said with my very first post. I justified it later and you continued to question what I was saying, so I continued with the tangent. Coca is still an anaesthetic/stimulant, and an effective one at that. But how are those properties beneficial to the recreational user? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/68 "2004-06-28T01:55:37Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I understand that. You guys took off on a tangent based upon something I said with my very first post. I justified it later and you continued to question what I was saying, so I continued with the tangent. “We guys” are not a collective group. We are individual people responding to what we see when we see it (at least, in my case, the others may be part of a hive mechanism). > [@](#): > > Coca is still an anaesthetic/stimulant, and an effective one at that. But how are those properties beneficial to the recreational user? I will not discuss the recreational benefit of cocaine in this thread. Create a thread about it if you like. I’m discussing marijuana. I’ve never (to my knowledge, I admit there have been questionable stints) experimented with cocaine, so I feel unqualified to take part. However, there are numberous recreational purposes of smoking marijuana, the general gist of which is the word “recreatonal” in general. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Psilocybe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/51bf81/32.png) [@Psilocybe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psilocybe)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/69 "2004-06-28T02:07:57Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Why? Because I don’t want pot to become tobacco. I don’t want it to be an industry where guys in suits discuss market shares in boardrooms, cartoon characters advertise it on billboards, and brightly-colored packages of joints sit behind the counter at Speedway. I don’t want pot smokers going on about their right to blaze one at the table next to mine in a restaurant. I don’t want government warnings on the side of the package stating that excessive toking can lead to excessive consumption of Cheetos, which can lead to obesity. Agreed, thats why it should never be legalized. Only decriminalized. > [@Lissa](#): > > I looked up my state, Ohio, and discovered that I was wrong: up to 1,000 is a misdemeanor. Yes, Ohio is one of the few states that that have decriminalized. Lucky you. ---
**Author:** ![saluki\_fan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@saluki\_fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saluki_fan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/70 "2004-06-28T02:35:21Z")
Legalize it. Quit wasting government time and money on people toking on a joint down in their basement, and start looking for real terrorists. I truely can’t see any harm in a person smoking marijuana. It makes no sense to keep it illegal. The only people who want this plant to be illegal are the cigarette and pharmacutical companies. It’s my belief that these companies have already capitalized enough on people’s misfortunes it’s time we get the right to grow our own medicine. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/71 "2004-06-28T06:02:57Z")
Economic Left/Right: 6.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67 Yes. Legalize all drugs. > [@Jon the Geek](#): > > But I know that it would be good to enforce laws against driving while intoxicated, to try to prevent those plowing-through incidents. I think what we need is a good sobriety test, combined with minicams for the officers (so they can prove the failure of the sobriety test in court). **The percentage of a compound in your bloodstream is irrelevant; if you’re drunk at 0.0001% blood alcohol level, you shouldn’t drive**. If you’re sober (and somehow alive) at 50% blood alcohol level, there’s no harm in you driving. The problem with this, of course, as people would take it the second way more than the first, and convince themselves that they’re okay to drive. Actually, there is a point in having established limits, rather than an all or nothing test. Even if people have to wait for days after consuming alcohol, something that’s already impractical, you will always have some amount of alcohol in your blood (the amount will vary with the foods you’ve recently eaten). In a somewhat similar vein, drug tests can indicate the presence of opiates if one has ingested poppy seeds 48 hours prior to testing. Granted, this involves the consumption of a different substance rather than low levels of the substance in question, but the principle is the same: a drug test alone will not tell you much about the mental capacity of the person during the administration of the test. > [@](#): > > If the sobriety test were simple enough, though, they could test themselves (or their friends could test them), which is impossible if the tests are based on special equipment. [They can.](http://www.alcohol-breathalyzer.com/car-breathalyzer.html) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/72 "2004-06-28T15:23:02Z")
In today’s news, [The Supreme Court will decide if medical MJ is legal.](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040628_635.html) Personally, the outcome of this case will affect me not at all. Athough a former dealer (! hah ! gotta make college money somehow 🆒 ), I am not a pot user, but I support personal freedom of choice in all drugs in a general sense. But the medical marijuana question seems to cloud the issue. I don’t believe it is a scientific certainty that MJ has the beneficial effects to humans as some claim, other than making the sufferer feel good. On the other hand, if someone wants to use it regardless of efficacy, that’s none of my business. There are people who think that bee stings help arthritis sufferers. No solid proof of this that I know of either, but isn’t it an individual’s right to be foolish as long as no one else is hurt (unless you’re from PETA and don’t approve of the wanton slaughter of bees. :rolleyes: )? Certainly the gummint shouldn’t be in the business of _promoting_ an uncertain cure, but neither should it _prohibit_ it if there is no harm. I’ve often felt that some of the reason behind those who oppose MJ use is rooted in the puritan ethic, as defined by H.L. Mencken: > [@](#): > > PURITANISM: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/73 "2004-06-28T15:47:04Z")
Economic Left/Right: -3.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.64 Agree. I don’t smoke pot, but believe it to be much, much less dangerous than alcohol. The primary danger it presents is that it’s illegal and possessing it can land you in jail. It pains me to have to say that, because as a defense lawyer marijuana’s continuing illegallity puts food on my table. A lot of the time, the potsmoker isn’t the one paying me, either; it’s you taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![Karmagun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Karmagun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karmagun)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/74 "2004-06-28T20:28:19Z")
Car accidents while stoned?? Have you ever tried it or do you just assume it impairs driving because it’s a drug? When you’re stoned, you drive slow. Real slow. Ridiculously slow. It’s probably safer to drive under the influence of grass than it is to drive sober, stressed out and late for an appointment. Much safer. Taxpayers’ money, burden on society, blah blah. Just tax it properly, and whatever healthcare is needed for ill dopeheads will come straight out of their pockets. Incidentally, there has not been one recorded death due to marijuana abuse. I don’t see what additional healthcare they would require. Tax animal fat instead. That would help balance the budget. (I’ve given up smoking, it just makes me paranoid and hypocondriac in my middle age) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/75 "2004-06-28T22:04:17Z")
> [@Karmagun](#): > > Car accidents while stoned?? Have you ever tried it or do you just assume it impairs driving because it’s a drug? No, I _infer_ that it reduces driver safety because it has been demonstrated to delay reaction times and impair judgment. > [@](#): > > When you’re stoned, you drive slow. Real slow. Ridiculously slow. Slow does not necessarily equal _safer_. > [@](#): > > It’s probably safer to drive under the influence of grass than it is to drive sober, stressed out and late for an appointment. Much safer. Since you don’t provide any references to back up this assertion, I’ll refute it without references: no, it isn’t safer, probably, but in any case, so what? - this is an irrelevant argument; it is absurd to permit A because you can imagine B, which happens to be much worse. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/76 "2004-06-28T22:04:50Z")
My SO used to smoke pot about every other day. He had mood swings and mild paranoia and was an absolute pain in the neck to live with. Now that he doesn’t smoke it, he is even tempered and not paranoid and a pleasure to live with. These days he has an occasional beer after work - this makes no difference to his personality. He loved smoking pot, thought it had no effect on his personality. From this experience and others, I don’t think that people who smoke it really understand how their behaviour and thinking changes (from another’s perspective). If you think legalising is a good thing, you really need to look at countries that have already done this and the effect it has had on them, from all perspectives. I personally have a problem with having to push my way past drug users, openly shooting up and dealing in large groups, in order to get to the subway. I don’t want my children looking at this and thinking that it is ‘normal’ and the subsequent mental processing that occurs, ie. that it is good or at least an okay thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/77 "2004-06-28T22:21:21Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > In every single marijuana thread, I find myself refuting this statement. > > Honestly, the money wasted on prosecuting and imprisoning marijuana offenders is almost infantesimal in the grand scheme of criminal justice budgets. > > My husband works in a prison which houses over 2,500 inmates. Less than _five_ are in there for marijuana posession, and these were fellows who were caught with _vast_ amounts of the stuff: in no way arguably “personal use.” > > The problem with studies that cite people in prison for “posession” is that they don’t differentiate between the stereotypical “kid with a joint in his pocket” and the guy who had a Ryder truck packed full of weed. > > You’ll get no arguments from me that even a single person in prison for a marijuana related offense is too many-- I’m an advocate of decriminalization-- but the reality is that very, very few people go to prison, or even to jail for posessing small amounts of pot. In my state, IIRC, you have to be caught with _five hundred grams_ before it’s even jail is even a possiblilty in sentancing. I have to disagree that the costs of prosecuting marijuana possession and distriubution are infantesimally small in the grand scheme of things. The [DoJ/FBI Sourcebook](http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/1995/pdf/t391.pdf) (warning pdf) states that from 1999-2001 marijuana prosecutions accounted for around 46% of all drug prosecutions in the United States, more than heroin, cocaine, and synthetic drugs put together, and almost more than _all_ other drugs put together; it’s by far the most widely used and widely prosecuted illicit drug. In 2001 marijuana trafficking convictions represented 33% of all federal drug trafficking offenses, and marijuana possession convictions accounted for 48.4% of all drug possession convictions in federal courts. On the state level marijuana trafficking and possession accounted for about 6.4% of all felony convictions in 2000. The vast majority of marijuana convictions are misdemeanors with very little jail time, but we’ve had more than five clients go the state pen for felony marijuana charges (possession of more than four ounces, delivery of more than a quarter ounce) in the last year alone! Incidentially, for what it’s worth I also came across [this](http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/1995/pdf/t391.pdf) (warning pdf) regarding the number of emergency room visits in which a drug was mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/78 "2004-06-28T23:05:24Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > From this experience and others, I don’t think that people who smoke it really understand how their behaviour and thinking changes (from another’s perspective). _Some_ people. > [@](#): > > If you think legalising is a good thing, you really need to look at countries that have already done this and the effect it has had on them, from all perspectives. OK… what negative effects has marijuana had on the Netherlands or the UK? > [@](#): > > I personally have a problem with having to push my way past drug users, openly shooting up and dealing in large groups, in order to get to the subway. I don’t want my children looking at this and thinking that it is ‘normal’ and the subsequent mental processing that occurs, ie. that it is good or at least an okay thing to do. If those drugs were legal, they wouldn’t need to be sold and used in subway stations. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/79 "2004-06-29T00:38:50Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > If those drugs were legal, they wouldn’t need to be sold and used in subway stations. Most likely, but it was in a country where pot is legal - the police don’t seem to bother about the illegal using and selling of drugs as much as before legalisation. This was in broad daylight, above ground, around the entrance to the subway stairs, in a large city - not some dark, hidden area, in a subversive manner. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2004, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/80 "2004-06-29T00:51:04Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > No, I _infer_ that it reduces driver safety because it has been demonstrated to delay reaction times and impair judgment. [A counterpoint](http://www.ccguide.org.uk/driving.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163.md?page=5)