# Political Compass #29: Marijuana should be legalised. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163 "2004-06-25T10:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/121 "2004-07-01T19:56:16Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Can you clarify this a little? Occasional smoker? Daily? Why did you quit? Why are you so opposed to legalization? > Do you think that availability of pot will automatically lead to widespread abuse? Also, **Chunky Bum** , do you think that availability of pot _has_ led to widespread abuse in the countries where it’s decriminalized? ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/122 "2004-07-01T21:02:04Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Are you conjuring up some kind of “multiple personality” scenario? I don’t suffer such a situation. This is not even true of most drugs. I’ve to ask you what your drug experiences have been… No, I am not suggesting any sort of multiple personality, this condition is in fact quite rare. I am talking about personality change, such as mood swings, inability to concentrate, paranoia (slight or more extreme), high energy followed by very low energy, difficulty communicating etc. My experience is working with people who smoke dope - no other drugs. > [@II Gyan II](#): > > Are you saying that “drugs” influence people more than choice of friends or everyday mundane stimulation??? Probably it seems that way because not everyone consumes drugs, whereas almost everyone has some friends. So, changes before/after drugs are demarcated and attributed directly to drugs, whereas influences of friends are only objectively and comprehensively studied by psychologists and the like. Humans are social animals. We are all embedded within some community. They’ve a far greater cumulative effect than some indulgences with non-psychedelics… The above mentioned changes in personality are directly due to dope smoking and not influenced by friends. I am not discounting the great influence that friends and communities have on individuals. > [@II Gyan II](#): > > This is only an assumed and not necessary truth, perpetuated by the social power structure of society. Older people are more jaded and less optimistic, and also in control. What they’ve experienced firsthand is the loss of idealism and innocence. That’s all there is to this acquired “wisdom”. Few people, relatively, within any age group, have a true grasp of the emergent dynamics of societies and communities. I acknowledge that EQ is an emerging area of research and what it actually is, is under debate. However, if it is made up of empathy, self-control, motivation, self-understanding and understanding others and this increases with age in the majority of people, I think this is much more than a “loss of idealism and innocence”. How do you know that few people have a “true grasp of emergent dynamics of societies and communities”? ---
**Author:** ![HoldOnThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@HoldOnThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoldOnThere)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/123 "2004-07-01T21:31:44Z")
I think it’s OK to legalize pot but not the other drugs mentioned on the board. Heck, I’m counting on it to be legal by the time I hit the nursing home in 30-40 years! 🙂 The problem with driving while inxoticated / stoned in not the substance, but the public attitude towards the seriousness of the activity. I’m a pilot and I would never dream of trying to fly drunk or stoned because I know that my impaired skills would not be up to the task and I would probably kill myself. However people still think they can drive a car drunk because driving doesn’t seem that hard or they feel that they have no other choice. Perhaps we should try and raise awareness in adults (not just the teenagers) to the dangers of drunk driving. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/124 "2004-07-01T21:32:34Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > The above mentioned changes in personality are directly due to dope smoking and not influenced by friends. I am not discounting the great influence that friends and communities have on individuals. You do attribute these changes to dope. How? > [@](#): > > I think this is much more than a “loss of idealism and innocence”. The traits you mentioned lead to the changes I did. > [@](#): > > How do you know that few people have a “true grasp of emergent dynamics of societies and communities”? I’ve observed people. Plenty of them. I’ve worked (starting as a kid) in my father’s firm where our clientele consists of media, TV, film and advertising executives. If you’re suggesting otherwise, how so? ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/125 "2004-07-01T21:36:12Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > My experience is working with people who smoke dope - no other drugs. Experience? Do you work at some kind of treatment center or social service? ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/126 "2004-07-02T04:41:58Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > You do attribute these changes to dope. How? Take away the dope and the behaviour changes back, the smoking of dope starts again and the behaviours return. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/127 "2004-07-02T04:50:42Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Experience? Do you work at some kind of treatment center or social service? I was an educational psychologist and have worked with tertiary students (and their families) who smoke dope on a regular basis. I also have an SO who used to be a dope smoker and have another family member by marriage who was a dope smoker. I acknowledge that dope smoking is often a response to an underlying issue, however, with the smoking, the issue is not dealt with and behaviour changes for the worst. When the smoking ceases, the issue can then be dealt with, if the individual wants to deal with it. Often the person smoking it doesn’t think that their behaviour changes or see any particular problem with the smoking whereas the caregivers see the changes. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/128 "2004-07-02T05:44:56Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > I was an educational psychologist and have worked with tertiary students (and their families) who smoke dope on a regular basis. I’m sure you realize that you’re working with a selective sample space. How did you assess that these students weren’t consuming other intoxicants, as well? From what you have said, all it seems is that people with certain personality types and in certain life circumstances, shouldn’t take up pot. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/129 "2004-07-03T05:41:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > (snip) > > Again, as I said, I don’t have a problem with drugs being legalised, as long as it can be done in a way that doesn’t produce additional inconvenience to third parties. I think that’s a fairly reasonable condition. Mangetout, I honestly do not see that any serious problems for third parties would result from legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana. Remember, it’s just marijuana we’re discussing, not all currently outlawed drugs. It seems to me that people who are drunk on alcohol are much more prone to causing probems when they’re out and about and mixing with other people then are people who are high on marijuana. If marijana were legalized, I don’t think it will be taken up by teetotalers. I think that most of the people who want to smoke dope are already doing so, regardless of the law. However many former non-users may start using it upon legalization – I’d guess that almost all of these new smokers will be people already accustomed to drinking alcohol. People out in public under the influence of pot should be less likely to create problems for others than people out in public under the influence of alcohol. Any shift from alcohol to pot will mean a reduction in the problems caused by drunks. When a guy knocks over a convenience store, or beats up his wife or girlfriend or child, or gets in a fistfight with a stranger, or rapes a stranger, or rapes his date, etc, etc – he’s quite often drunk, or halfway drunk. What kind of problems are pot smokers going to cause when they’re out in public? (Not that they aren’t out in public now, but they usually toke up away from prying eyes.) Maybe they’ll get in others’ way, walking too slowly or lolling around in public parks? Maybe they’ll commit acts of littering, tossing Doritos bags here and there when they get the munchies? ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/130 "2004-07-03T05:59:28Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > (snip) > I personally have a problem with having to push my way past drug users, openly shooting up and dealing in large groups, in order to get to the subway. I don’t want my children looking at this and thinking that it is ‘normal’ and the subsequent mental processing that occurs, ie. that it is good or at least an okay thing to do. Marijuana isn’t something one shoots up. It IS possible to legalize (or decriminalize) just marijuana only, while hard drugs remain outlawed. It isn’t a package deal; legalizing or decriminalizing one substance need not effect the laws re other substances. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/131 "2004-07-03T06:18:16Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Continue that quote, **AD**. > > This is a _debate_. Of all those who say that banning alcohol is _unfeasible_, I ask: > > _Is it **right**?_ No. It’s very much not right. If I want to consume alcohol or marijuana or tobacco or unhealthy food (or hard drugs, for that matter) “it ain’t nobody’s business but my own”. If I harm someone (on purpose or inadvertantly) or if I act with reckless disregard to the probability of harm to another, the state has the right to step in. This is true regardless of my condition: cold stone sober, or under the influence of whatever: alcohol, or an illegal drug, or a legal medicinal drug, or emotional upset, or mind rays from space aliens. (Re “reckless disregard of the probability of harm to another” – if I’m driving recklessly, pull me over. Seems to me, if I’m driving recklessly, a stop should be put to my reckless behavior – regardless of my condition. Please note that I may well be cold stone sober.) ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/132 "2004-07-03T06:24:29Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > A slippery slope analogy: We, in Australia and NZ, have changed many uni masters degrees to not include a thesis component and to cater for a specific market, many MBAs have been made one year, paper only degrees. By changing masters degrees to suit public demand, we now have a dumbed down system, with many MBAs for example, not worth the paper they are printed on. > If we legalise pot, will society not become used to the idea of ‘drugs’ and become desensitised to cocaine for example, then want to legalise cocaine? Anything “might” lead to anything. I strongly believe that we need to decide each and every case on its own merits, and not go haring off about what it might lead to. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/133 "2004-07-03T06:34:51Z")
> [@Chunky Bum](#): > > As a former smoker, let me just say this: > > **Just say no to legalization**! > > I simply can not envision a United States where every Tom, Dick, & Harry can walk into Cosco and buy an ounce of kind bud. Building an army of potheads is not the direction I want America to go in. Aw… why not? Might be an improvment! (Would a nation of potheads return Bush to office?) MelCthefirst, what is “EQ,” anyway? Re age, I’m in my fifties. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/134 "2004-07-04T20:17:25Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > I’m sure you realize that you’re working with a selective sample space. How did you assess that these students weren’t consuming other intoxicants, as well? From what you have said, all it seems is that people with certain personality types and in certain life circumstances, shouldn’t take up pot. In the case of my SO and family member, they definitely weren’t doing other intoxicants - and these two were not students. Students may well be using other intoxicants, but in most of the cases I saw, they probably weren’t. How can you be so sure that these reactions are exclusive to ‘some’ personality types? I’m not so convinced, but I acknowledge that reactions are worse for some than others. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/135 "2004-07-04T20:19:41Z")
> [@Hazel](#): > > Aw… why not? Might be an improvment! (Would a nation of potheads return Bush to office?) > > MelCthefirst, what is “EQ,” anyway? > > Re age, I’m in my fifties. EQ= Emotional Intelligence, see previous posts for more details. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/136 "2004-07-04T21:06:37Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > How can you be so sure that these reactions are exclusive to ‘some’ personality types? I’m not so convinced, but I acknowledge that reactions are worse for some than others. I have friends who are regular smokers and who don’t exhibit such bipolar/manic-depressive symptoms. You yourself commented that the symptoms disappeared when smoking was stopped. Which indicates that the changes are reversible. The problem lies mainly with the frequency of use. For any activity, there’s a segment that overdoes it. Marijuana is not particularly addictive (most of my friends are weekend smokers). Don’t let one segment shape broad policy. Remove the taboo from the reefer and watch the eventual decline in its allure. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/137 "2004-07-05T17:56:56Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > But the medical marijuana question seems to cloud the issue. I don’t believe it is a scientific certainty that MJ has the beneficial effects to humans as some claim, other than making the sufferer feel good Isn’t that the goal of _any_ medication, to make the person “feel good”? ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/138 "2004-07-05T20:28:44Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > I have friends who are regular smokers and who don’t exhibit such bipolar/manic-depressive symptoms. You yourself commented that the symptoms disappeared when smoking was stopped. Which indicates that the changes are reversible. The problem lies mainly with the frequency of use. For any activity, there’s a segment that overdoes it. Marijuana is not particularly addictive (most of my friends are weekend smokers). Don’t let one segment shape broad policy. Remove the taboo from the reefer and watch the eventual decline in its allure. I’m not talking about the more troubling problems of bipolar/manic depressive symptoms. How can you identify the segments of society that shouldn’t smoke dope? Saying you have friends who are regular smokers and don’t exhibit these symptoms is not enough evidence to not have a broad policy. Until there has been good research into the effects of smoking dope on the population, we should not legalise it. We don’t have research into the effects of smoking over many years (I’m assuming that your friends are still young.) The family member of mine, has epileptic fits that can be triggered by smoking dope, but the doctors have absolutely no idea why. He has been a smoker since the age of 13 and he is now 30. There is no taboo on alcohol and it still holds much allure. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/139 "2004-07-05T22:21:28Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > We don’t have research into the effects of smoking over many years (I’m assuming that your friends are still young. [Like](http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/70/80972.htm) [these](http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_media7.shtml)? ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/140 "2004-07-05T22:42:37Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > There is no taboo on alcohol and it still holds much allure. 10% of users consume 50% of alcohol. 22% of users consume 70% - according to this [PDF](http://www.ccbh.nl/netwerkconferentie_juni2002/AlexWodak.pdf)\*(scroll down). Tobacco is similar. Any reason why weed ought to be different? \*I’m looking for the original source. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163.md?page=8)