# Political Compass #29: Marijuana should be legalised. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2004, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163 "2004-06-25T10:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/161 "2004-07-20T02:58:42Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Oh dear! > > I’m not continuing this “debate”. What’s you’re problem, these last few posts are about research validity, not political debate - you’re arguing with someone who has two research degrees. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/162 "2004-07-20T04:25:17Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > What’s you’re problem, these last few posts are about research validity, not political debate - you’re arguing with someone who has two research degrees. Two research degrees??? So you’re presenting an appeals to authority!!! The irony is killing me. Research validity?? In which post, precisely, did you question the **validity** of the studies and reviews?? Let’s trace the “debate” * * * In #138, you claim: “We don’t have research into the effects of smoking over many years”. False. For rebuttal, see #139 & #142. * * * * * * In #148, you claim: “_I think legalizing it would make it more readily available and possibly push the price down - although it is already very cheap here. I’m convinced that more people would take up smoking it, increasing the number of people who screw up their lives from smoking it_” & in #151: “_Yes but this doesn’t tell us much - other than that consumption is lower than the US. Has it increased at a faster rate in Holland than in a less tolerant country? What effects, if any, have there been on communities? What does the person in the street think about the open use of it? Is there a corelation between open use of MJ and use of other drugs?_”. For rebuttal, in #152, I cite an official study that states: “_general national trends in cannabis use are relatively independent of cannabis policy_” and “_most cannabis use is experimental and recreational. The vast majority quits using cannabis after some time. Only a very small proportion of current cannabis users is in treatment._” & “_The vast majority of cannabis users has never tried hard drugs. Moreover, with regard to the problematic use of opiates and drug related health problems, the Netherlands ranks relatively low within the European Union._” * * * You also bring up this gem: _There is no correlation between illegal rates of use in the US and legal rates of use in Holland._ Just how you extracted this link is beyond me. I was contrasting **cannabis use vis-a-vis cannabis policy**. The Dutch review covers this pretty well, since the author reviewed cannabis use in other EU countries as well, in most of which, cannabis is not decriminalized. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/163 "2004-07-20T21:31:19Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > _There is no correlation between illegal rates of use in the US and legal rates of use in Holland._ > > Just how you extracted this link is beyond me. I was contrasting **cannabis use vis-a-vis cannabis policy**. The Dutch review covers this pretty well, since the author reviewed cannabis use in other EU countries as well, in most of which, cannabis is not decriminalized. Okay, I think we got our lines crossed. First of all, there is still not an abundance of cannibis useage over time research - yes there is some and you referenced them. Secondly I thought you were saying that because the usage rates in Holland have not gone up after it was semi-decriminalised, that this is somehow related to the US usage. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/164 "2004-07-21T03:53:32Z")
Economic Left/Right: -4.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.15 (Though my detractors won’t believe it) Marijuana should be decriminalized. Legalized. Tobacco, however, should require training, education and the acquisition of a “use license.” S¬ …V ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/165 "2004-07-21T04:03:35Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > By changing masters degrees to suit public demand, we now have a dumbed down system, with many MBAs for example, not worth the paper they are printed on. > > If we legalise pot, will society not become used to the idea of ‘drugs’ and become desensitised to cocaine for example, then want to legalise cocaine? You seem a good example of your country’s trends in higher education. Let me rephrase your question: If we legalise tobacco, will society not become used to the idea of ‘drugs’ and become desensitised to alcohol, for example, then want to legalise alcohol? Doesn’t it depend on what you consider a drug? Get a degree in England, or Switzerland… ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/166 "2004-07-21T09:38:10Z")
> [@MelCthefirst](#): > > First of all, there is still not an abundance of cannibis useage over time research - yes there is some and you referenced them. You’re changing tacks now… You initially said: “We don’t have research into the effects of smoking over many years”, now you’re effectively saying, “we don’t have much research into…” > [@](#): > > Secondly I thought you were saying that because the usage rates in Holland have not gone up after it was semi-decriminalised, that this is somehow related to the US usage. You contended that if US decriminalizes pot, usage would shoot up and in another post you said: “As has been said before, if a large number of people can’t drink alcohol without drinking to excess, causing violent behaviour and driving accidents, will we not be adding a large number of people with drug problems to the mix.” To which I rebutted with the Dutch report which says that cannabis use is relatively independent of policy; I showed a report that majority of alcohol, tobacco and heroin use is concentrated among a small minority of users (10% use 50%, 20% use 70%). It’s reasonable that weed use parallels the same distribution. Given that there are 20+ million. I also linked to long-term studies that cannabis doesn’t permanently affect cognition and lung function as well as that weed doesn’t lead to higher rate of auto accidents. If you want to studies to know how legalization will affect US, they’re not going to happen anytime soon. You’ve to legalize first to know how US will get affected. A trial run, so to speak. Till then, you can only study other countries where weed use is tolerated. Mainly, that’s the Netherlands. And they’ve lower use. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/167 "2004-07-21T09:41:11Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Given that there are 20+ million. Ignore this statement in the above post. There are millions of regular smokers in the US. Most people who are likely to smoke to excess, are **already smoking** cannabis. Weed legalization will increase occasional use. ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163/168 "2004-07-25T04:35:13Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Thanks, **Mr2001,** for those links. If indeed hard evidence is accumulating towards the practical and medicinal use of canibinols in whatever form, that is a good thing if you are a proponent of legalization. > > However, I noticed that all those links are pages from the same, pro-marijuana advocacy site, perhaps not an unbiased list of studies. I doubt if they would list a study that didn’t support their view. > > Beyond this, I’d better leave the analysis and deeper research to those more medically inclined and with more interest, and more available time. > > I would like to suggest to any of the SDSAB bunch that are listening that this might be a good topic for a Staff Report: **"Is marijuana truly effective for any medical purpose or just wishful thinking?"** I really don’t understand people who say, well, maybe we might consider legalization, if it can be _proved_ that marijuana is really effective for medical purposes. I just can’t see any need at all to prove any such thing. We should immediately legalize or decriminalize marijuana because we already know that it is less harmful than either alcohol or tobacco. We already know that it is just not harmful enough to justify illegality. We already know that it is utter nonsence to claim that it belongs in the same catagory as heroin, cocaine, etc. It’s idiotic to waste criminal justice resources and ruin lives over this mild-mannered herb. As far as medicinal use is concerned, if seriously ill and dying people feel that it helps them, what business is it of anyone else? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-29-marijuana-should-be-legalised/252163.md?page=8)