# Political Compass #43: Society must have people above to be obeyed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619 "2004-11-25T12:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619/21 "2004-11-29T17:08:44Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > I can think of no worthwhile human endeavor that did not have leaders and followers. (5.00, -4.82) There is a basic ambiguity in the question, in that it doesn’t distinguish between _ad hoc_ hierarchies (which form and dissolve as the situation demands) and _permanent_ hierarchies. In the context of the Political Compass, I interpreted the question to refer to the latter, and answered “Strongly Disagree”. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619/22 "2004-11-29T19:21:28Z")
Agree. **MGibson** summed it up nicely: > [@](#): > > I can think of no worthwhile human endeavor that did not have leaders and followers. I can see where SM and others are coming from with their objections, but I just didn’t read the question that way. Humans just need to organize themselves into groups with a hierarchy in order to get anything done. This is true for the military, business world, construction, or democracy. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619/23 "2004-11-29T19:27:50Z")
Suprising that a pinko like me believes this, but I chose Agree. Most every facet of society has an org chart, spoken or unspoken. Even if you’re a child, you obey your parents, your teacher, your football coach- whatever. As an adult, you answer to your boss, to the IRS, to police when stopped. Without some semblence of order, we have chaos and to preserve order there must be some degree of obedience. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619/24 "2004-12-01T04:42:06Z")
(-4.62, -4.31; Strongly Disagree to #43) Now maybe I’m overreacting a little, antiauthoritarian that I am…but the way I see it, “ome degree of obedience” doesn’t imply that “society must have people above.” In a democratic society no one can legitimately be “above” anyone else in the sense of having absolute power over them. The boss is the boss at work, not 24/7. (And if he cares about morale and producitivity he ought not approach tyranny during the workday, either.) Cops have a right to pull you over for doing 40 in a 25 mile zone but not for eating watermelon on a Sunday. Your coach can throw you off the team but he can’t withhold your grades or have his way with your girlfriend. Some degree of obedience yes – but it has to be contextual. Or as **SteveMB** put it, _ad hoc._ (Not that _ad hoc_ can’t get pretty nasty at times - try basic training. Try prison. But even there people have some fundamental rights, however difficult they may be to guarantee. Eg: the USA can’t freely “disappear” prisoners or send recruits home in a basket case. The system’s power over the individual is somewhat less than absolute.) I guess what I’m driving at here is that “people above to be obeyed” implies, to me, that _those people wouldn’t have to do any obeying._ That the responsibility and accountability were all one way - up, not down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-compass-43-society-must-have-people-above-to-be-obeyed/276619.md?page=1)