My ‘dislike’ only really runs to that minority of faith-based schools in which the religious basis is used to mislead or control the pupils, such as those which might deny the scientific fact that species are replaced by other previously nonexistent species over millions of years, or threaten the kids with sulphurous punishment for perfectly natural and legal activities.
Other than that, ‘dislike’ wouldn’t really be the word. That they were spending so much time studying what I consider to be myths and fictional accounts when they could be studying something more useful is merely rather inefficient IMO.
Because I’m not willing to lump all religious schools in the “bad” category when I know for a fact that some do an admirable job.
I’m not advocating for indoctrinating schools. My husband’s school didn’t do that, but it had a religious aspect. Athiests were perfectly welcome in the school. They could chose whether or not they wanted to participate in other religious activities. They did study the Catholic faith, but they also studied other faiths and discussed them in an open manner. There were no efforts at conversion, indoctrination or brainwashing.
But the main reason why I support his type of school was the educational excellence. Many of his graduating class went on to Ivy League schools.
These are the kinds of schools I support. Unfortunately, there isn’t a set standard for religious schools, which means if I support one kind, I have to tolerate the existance of the other kind.
I dunno-- part of me says there should be a standard, that all schools should be forced to go through an accredidation process, but that’s messing with religious freedom. (You’re free to be an idiot if you want to be, I guess.)
Many of these schools (the one I attended included) fight vehemently not to have any state interference. My school bitterly opposed the students having to take the state Ninth Grade Profieciency Test. They eventually lost that fight, but they deeply resent it.
It’s a badge of honor for some of them to reject “government” education, which they see as Godless and evil-- hell bent on destroying faith. As they see it, the government opposes them solely because of the religious aspect, not because their educational offerings are shitty.
I don’t know how this situation could be fixed without stepping on religious freedom’s toes. (After all, Amish children have their own schools.)
I am a bit confused here. Are you saying that you want Christianity to be shown through the eyes of a believer while other religions are taught objectively?
“A contradiction in terms” seems a bit strong to me. So a kid gets his weekly bible lesson on Thursday mornings and chapel on Fridays, and the rest of the time is spent on all the things any other school would do. Reading. Multiplication. Science. I suppose you’re right that “legitimate alternative ways of thinking” about religion are suppressed. They’d probably shush a kid if he said “I’d like to pray to Ganesh today” or “I don’t think there is a God.” Does that really mean he’s not being educated? Is his brain really going to be so hampered if they don’t encourage religious skepticism?
Think of it this way, mightn’t the same thing happen in public school? Won’t a kid be shushed if he wants to express religious beliefs? or lack thereof? They’re not teaching religious skepticism in public school, either, are they?
I guess I see religious education as primarily indoctrination, which is why religious types see it as so essential. It gets them early, and profoundly, before they’re trained at questioning authority and skilled at debate–by the time they understand which way is up, theologically speaking, most people are pretty skewed in the direction they’ve been steered in. “Oh, I don’t know why, but I’ve always had a feeling that there’s some higher power looking down on us…I can’t say why, really.”
Uh, how about because you’ve had that notion forcefed into you ever since you’ve had teeth? Think maybe that’s one reason you’ve unable to let go of a harmful idea that retards your intellectual growth? Nah, couldn’t be…
First off, I don’t accept the difference between “religious values” and plain “values.” It seems vaugely insulting both to athiests and to the theists, suggesting that one or the other system is lesser.
And I would contend passionately that any school will always invariably teach values of some sort or another, usually when they least intend to.
Everyone? I said I didn’t even know what they were.
It’s a very poorly worded question for anyone who thinks about it. But you’re probably not supposed to think about it much-- just register your guy reaction.
If that was directed at me, you douldn’t me more mistaken. I am an athiest, and very intellectually curious. That’s why I despise and revile the school to which I was sent.
Even as an athiest, I don’t see any harm in religious instruction in its place which means studying it as a social force and as a historical influemce, as well as studying other religions and their cultures. I firmly disagree with schools whose primary purpose is indoctrination. That’s not a school-- that’s church with crappy text books.
Nope, not at all. Sorry if you got that impression, because I never intended to give it.
If you’re a religious parent (and I specifically DON’T mean you, Lissa), you don’t really need to send your impresionable child for religious instruction at any time, IMO. Your example–of a happy, well-adjusted, deeply religious person living a moral and admirable life–should more than suffice for the purposes of getting your child to want to join your organized religion. Just tell him, “Son, when you’re old enough to understand truly, I’ll be happy to send you off to study these complex and weighty matters, but for now, just be a good boy and enjoy yourself,” and he’ll be bugging you no end to study religion.
But does anyone do that? NOOOOOOOOOO! You paddle them off to school before they’re old enough to understand the concept of death, much less God and heaven and transubstantiation and Immanence, and you fill them up with more claptrap at home–Christ, is it so puzzling why people are confused about religion, and why it’s such a hot-button topic?
If it were any other belief system we were talking about–foriegn policy, say, or modern art-- this early indoctrination would clearly perceived and would be classified as child abuse. Because most of us have been exposed to this system, however, it seems relatively normal to us, but it’s not. It’s weird, it’s abusive, and it’s thoroughly, despicably immoral. But we protect it in the name of morality.
You’re saying that if you enrolled your child in a school that kept drilling into him that Rothko was the pinnacle of good modern art, before he had a chance to make up his mind about art, that would be child abuse?
I know I’ve just invited a bunch of smark-aleck comments like “Now Rothko, that would be fine, but Miro? Indeed that would be child abuse!”
“head-nutjob-in-chief.” Can’t argue open mindedness with that.
On to the OP:
Economic Left/Right: 2.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
Disagree with this one. Concepts of right and wrong can and should be included without religous overtones public school (seperation of Church and State and what not).
I agreed with the positiveness of faith based schools question though. The two seem to be quite different questions.
Priceguy (-8.50/-5.33) ticks Strongly Disagree for “I would not wish to send my child to a school that did not instill religious values” and Disagree for “Faith-based schools have a positive role to play in our education system”.
The first one depends on the definition of “religious values”, of course. Some people would say that charity, love and understanding are religious values, and I certainly don’t mind those. However, if religious values are values actually having to do with religion, I strongly disagree. Religion’s place in schools is as a subject to be taught, the same way you learn about political ideologies of the past and present.
The second one, I’m a bit more mellow on, but I’d like to see faith-based schools disappear entirely, for the same reason: religion should be just another subject to be taught.
I consider this to be a BS question. It’s one of the ones I selected randomly because I felt it was a BS question and not worthy of a response requiring any more thought than me randomly hitting one of the selections with my mouse.
I think the question tries to over generalize in a sense. I just don’t like it, really.
On the topic of faith based schools, I’m in favor of them. I’d send my children to Catholic school, just as I went to a Catholic school. This has a dual purpose for me, the Catholic Church is very diligent in keeping religion out of the secular classes. For example I learned all about evolution and other such “hot button” topics that religions get lambasted for here. The school I went to was just very good at providing a general education and the fact that my teachers were mostly priests didn’t come into play in math class or history class.
On top of what I feel is a good education (but not necessarily better than an average public school) is the fact that my children would also learn the various aspects of Catholicism and have a deeper understanding of the faith they would be brought up in.
At a certain age though I’d tell my children, “You’ve been learning about this whole Catholicism thing for a long time, most importantly it is a personal choice. I think your life is less full if you aren’t a member of the Catholic Church, and I think your life will be abysmal if you reject Jesus, but religion is something everyone has to choose for themselves, and if you want to stop going to mass and enroll in a public school then that’s your choice from now on.”
I think faith based schools are a very economical way for parents who are religious to provide a general education and their religious education in one building. As long as it is done like we do it in Catholic school, a clear division is made between your religious classes and your math/bio/history classes.
With the way things are going now, unless I know first hand and personally just what “religious values” are being taught, I don’t want it. I was taught in Catholic grade school and Catholic high school, and it was a very good education.
HOWEVER, I have very real concerns about some of the things that are supposedly being “taught” in other “faith based” schools - young earth, creationism, Jesus horses etc.
