# Political correctness - allowing China to dictate what we (Western nations) do or say. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478 "2019-10-08T15:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/101 "2019-10-10T19:40:59Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > You’ve got it all backwards, **BobLibDem**. The Chinese people _love_ their government, by definition almost. When Daryl Morey implied that Hong Kong protesters fight for freedom, that’s the Chinese equivalent of Lionel Scaloni saying the Bundys fight for freedom. When the NBA commissioner then comes out and defends Morey, you have to realize that the NBA is practically spitting on the Chinese people. They hate him for it. > > ~Max, attempting to be a satirist Please drop this. It is distracting from the thread. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/102 "2019-10-10T19:42:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > To some extent this is the same dynamic we see in academic PC culture and liberal orthodoxy. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m going to regret this but… what in the name of fuck are you talking about, exactly ? > [@bobot](#): > > And Nazis. And people who sit on corporate boards. And the Republican politicians who fear Trump. And city council members who aren’t the mayor. And workers who fear losing their jobs. Why, it’s rampant! > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I agree. Its basically bullying. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Academics are supposed to be insulated from being punished for their ideas and views. That insulation has worn transparently thin lately. > > We see fairly nasty attacks by the radical left directed at moderate liberals. > [@Kobal2](#): > > OK, I’ll rephrase, and by rephrase I mean repeat exactly what I said but emphasize the salient bit you must have missed : what are you talking about, **exactly**? What are those examples ? **I know you’ve seen post #30 and #34. No more on this hijack.** [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/103 "2019-10-10T19:44:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Can you cite anyone else who thinks this? No. I _thought_ it was racist/derogatory and coincidentally I had the chance to ask someone who is from China. He agreed. Looking for an authoritative cite online I see all sorts of talk on all sides. Maybe I’m off base here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/104 "2019-10-10T20:00:11Z")
This may be [the only thing Ted Cruz and AOC have ever agreed on in Congress.](https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ted-cruz-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-cosign-congressional-request-that-nba-suspend-activities-in-china-021745024.html) ---
**Author:** ![ralfy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ralfy/32/600_2.png) [@ralfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralfy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/105 "2019-10-11T13:56:58Z")
Since Tiananmen was mentioned, here’s an interesting point: [“Tiananmen Square protesters sing the Internationale. Contrary to the western narrative, the workers at Tiananmen were protesting for socialist democracy after the CCP’s turn to market reforms”](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/dgcwxe/tiananmen_square_protesters_sing_the/) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/106 "2019-10-11T14:16:32Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > Since Tiananmen was mentioned, here’s an interesting point: > > [“Tiananmen Square protesters sing the Internationale. Contrary to the western narrative, the workers at Tiananmen were protesting for socialist democracy after the CCP’s turn to market reforms”](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/dgcwxe/tiananmen_square_protesters_sing_the/) That’s a reddit post, and it’s complete horseshit. The students were out there mainly because of Hu Yaobang’s death. He was a member (leader of the communist party IIRC) of the CCP working for reform of the CCP using the system, and with his death there had already been rollbacks of some of those reforms. So the students came out to honor and mourn the man and to call on the CCP to continue with the reforms that had already been put in place and were slated to go in. They weren’t there for democracy, per se, nor to get rid of the CCP…they wanted change and reform within the system. I could go into more detail, but with your usual drive by post I don’t think it’s worth the time. Feel free to post something other than a drive by link to another message board if you want to discuss this more. What I will say about Tiananmen showed the CCP that they could do something horrific, get a lot of flack from the west, but that within a short period we would cave in and be back trying to get into their good graces. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/107 "2019-10-11T14:18:42Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > No. I _thought_ it was racist/derogatory and coincidentally I had the chance to ask someone who is from China. He agreed. Looking for an authoritative cite online I see all sorts of talk on all sides. Maybe I’m off base here. Thread on this subject [here.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883467) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/108 "2019-10-11T14:41:26Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Thread on this subject [here.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=883467) Thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/109 "2019-10-11T15:12:06Z")
A very long list on Reddit, compiled, of [Western companies or individuals that have been coerced by China because of some message China didn’t like.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dfg1ce/list_of_companies_under_chinas_censorship_orders/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/110 "2019-10-11T15:35:23Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yeah, double-fuck the NBA. We’ve finally found the sports association that makes the NFL look competent at PR. I’m guessing you’re not much of a sportsball fan. Adam Silver and the NBA are the only US major sports league that is (generally) good at PR - though this incident is obviously a major gaffe. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/111 "2019-10-11T16:36:45Z")
Man, the Chinese, in a surprise decision, have…sit down everyone and prepare for a shock…they have BANNED SOUTH PARK!! I can’t believe it! It’s shocking! They banned South Park! :eek:!!! What is the world coming too? I think an apology…deepest, most heartfelt and abject apology…from the creators of South Park stating in no uncertain terms that they are sorry for offending the Chinese people is in order. Hopefully they are working on a new episode doing just that as we speak. Also, in other news, Poo and Piglet have died. This has nothing to do with the CCP, and any rumors that Piglet was part of the strategic pork reserve and that some of Poo’s organs have found their way into several prominent billionaires bodies have no…let me repeat, zero…basis in fact. It was an unfortunate smelting accident… ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/112 "2019-10-11T17:20:36Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > 1. I heard a guy on the radio yesterday complaining that the big names in basketball were ignorant or silent on China’s treatment of Muslims. > > I said to myself, this is why we have a government. > > Instead, we expect twentysomething athletes, whose claim to fame is jumping up and down with a leather ball, to be the voice of reason regarding China’s internal politics. > > 2 . Before we vilify the NBA over this, we should acknowledge that we all participate, rather deeply and willingly, in China’s economy. > > I’ll leave off with this, if you want the Chinese people to enjoy more freedom, the way to get there is to keep an open relationship with Western Culture. The more they benefit financially, the more they see our rights and freedoms, the more likely it becomes that they will demand those rights from their government. 1. But as you surely realize, it’s not that simple. The US media/entertainment complex lionizes twentysomething athletes for expressing political opinions on other things. Some of those things are arguably (may or may not be) closer to their own personal experiences (police and the justice system), but some really aren’t (climate, environmental). It’s not as simple IOW as every person with a high profile having a duty (or even unlimited right vis a vis their employer objecting to it being done on ‘company time’) to opine on things that are ‘internal’ but it being fine to duck other issues because those are external and those are the govt’s job. Where I am to begin with rationalizing your argument to accept the obvious fact that not every issue is ‘what the govt is for’ therefore individuals don’t need to express themselves about anything in the political realm. Not entirely rejecting your point, just saying it’s a lot muddier in reality. It also depends on degree. IOW the degree of difference between the level of big deal of players in the NFL about racism vs. standing for the national anthem, though OK that’s ‘our’ issue. But then NBA players impose complete silence on themselves about Chinese Communist repression (which notice they have: at first a few apologized to or at least James Harden, now it’s pretty much 100% radio silence which I expect to be permanent, I doubt you’ll ever see NBA team expressions of solidarity with HK protester like displays of their solidarity with NFL players on the anthem thing). I see that degree of disparity as undercutting their credibility, not saying they as individuals have to care equally about the two issues, just a _huge_ difference in their reactions based on their own economic interests. I also realize your statement might imply we shouldn’t take athletes seriously as social spokespeople at all, but with other issues a lot of people do. 1. But the second part of your point there is the ostensible reason for the first. We ‘willingly participate’ partly on the idea that’s for the benefit of freedom in China in the long run (though also to get more for our consumer $, and the trade also economically benefits people in China, whether it makes them freer or not). But the freedom part of argument has become weaker as China has greatly advanced economically but the Communist regime has become in important ways (not every way, granted) more oppressive. And now China’s economic clout is seriously affecting discussion outside China. As this episode shows again especially considering what you _don’t_ hear, people in the US (and other ‘free world’) academic, entertainment and media worlds calling out China in comparison to their activism on various other things and countries. For example in reality, as opposed to in Hollywood movies, ‘powerful corporate interests’ are not very effective in stifling criticism of corporate excess. The Chinese Communists OTOH are becoming pretty effective stifling criticism of them outside China (including by Hollywood), as a byproduct of China’s greater economic heft. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/113 "2019-10-11T18:35:08Z")
If anyone is interested, [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkJ6EFIL9H0) is China Uncensored’s (YouTube video) quasi-humorous take on the NBA/China incident. Warning though…he does use the term ‘kowtow’. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/114 "2019-10-12T06:02:09Z")
A Yahoo! article on how China’s people are taking it: [Nationalism over NBA fandom: Fans support 'motherland' China](https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nationalism-over-nba-fandom-fans-051038855.html) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/115 "2019-10-12T10:41:01Z")
Yeah. If you thought ugly American nationalism was fun just hold on to your hat. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/116 "2019-10-12T16:53:14Z")
Here’s a New York Times article that specifically mentions the term “political correctness,” although it’s more in the context of how Chinese people speak about things than how Westerners handle China: [China’s Political Correctness: One Country, No Arguments](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/11/business/china-hong-kong-education.html?fbclid=IwAR2Vo5ixgDc21rB_iIpt9h0WXrkYjvt6WRLYsYaffA2aZUg7fQWcYlkiNxo) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/117 "2019-10-12T19:17:21Z")
A “superstar” German DJ has been [“permanently banned” from China for liking a _South Park_ tweet](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/12/dj-zedd-banned-in-china-for-liking-a-south-park-tweet.html). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/118 "2019-10-14T01:38:16Z")
If money is the god that sports teams worship then they will eventually have to weigh the value of local dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/119 "2019-10-14T01:51:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This is the point at which we must remind ourselves that the Chinese government hates basic freedoms. I disagree. I think the Chinese government fears basic freedoms. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478/120 "2019-10-14T14:27:41Z")
Seems to me that the NBA was making sufficient money before they started marketing in China. Sure, they can pay the players more by letting China dictate what they do or don’t say, but is that money worth sacrificing their freedom of speech? I think not. I’d like the NBA to tell China to stop trying to dictate what US citizens say in their own country and if they don’t like it, then find another professional basketball league to carry in the Chinese market. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-allowing-china-to-dictate-what-we-western-nations-do-or-say/841478.md?page=7)