# Political Correctness and Racial Profiling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639 "2010-11-23T05:38:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/21 "2010-11-23T14:35:17Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Please provide evidence that “background profiling by well-trained experts” at airports is “much more effective than blind random weapon searches” by TSA staff. > > As with all these debates, I suspect that you will not bring any evidence, just keep making outrageous claims. Israel has the best airport security in the world. They don’t do it by treating every passenger like a potential terrorist. They do it by profiling. ---
**Author:** ![llcoolbj77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/eb9ed0/32.png) [@llcoolbj77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/llcoolbj77)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/22 "2010-11-23T14:36:59Z")
> [@Sandwich](#): > > Yours is an arguable position, though it appears to ignore the international dimension of air travel. Non-muslim Americans might be happy that muslims are singled out for special treatment in American airports, safe in the certain knowledge that the US government would never abuse that responsibility. Much harder for say the French government to employ similar measures at CDG for flights to the US. And if some French citizens are getting a real hard time at JFK, then there will be irresistable pressure for similar measures to be taken against US citizens at all European airports. When you travel through foreign airports, do you really want to have to stand in the long, slow line outside in the rain, next to the public road underneath a big sign saying “These are the Americans”? **LonesomePolecat** is totally right. The security in Israel is off the charts!!! I had to go to a facility several miles away from the airport, hours and hours before my flight. I went through three screens (a walk thru, a wand, and a pat down if necessary). I then had to answer several questions about the nature of my travel. I got myself in serious trouble as well. I had been travelling in Israel because my BIL and sister were there for work. First, I couldn’t remember the name of the company my BIL was there with… I could only remember it was a joint thing with IBM. :smack: Secondly, although I was there for 7 weeks, I only had one bag. (Its mostly a desert and tank tops don’t take up much room). The screeners thought it was totally incredulous that a young woman could travel for 7 weeks with one bag of clothes. I was pulled out as highly suspicous. It was a bit of a fiasco, and very scary. My BIL had to leave and come back with a bunch of paperwork and they wouldn’t let us talk to each other. I had to explain the contents of my bag and justify my clothes. They asked me about my religious affiliation, educational background, etc… NO PC crap there! Mind you, this was in the summer of 2000. Before 9/11. Right after Israel pulled out of Lebanon completely. Before Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount and the kid threw a rock at him… This was during a time of real peace. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/23 "2010-11-23T14:49:13Z")
> [@smileybastard](#): > > I don’t believe it is political correctness to not profile a particular group. It is discrimination to do so. It is a very small minority of these groups that are criminals or terrorists and so it is unfair and in fact against human rights to target them. Profiling doesn’t mean targeting every one of a particular race or religion for close scrutiny. Race and religion are only part of the profile the Israelis use to screen out potential terroists. A potential subject does not necessarily have to match every single aspect of the profile. Frankly, a lot of people on this thread don’t seem to know or care what profiling really is. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/24 "2010-11-23T15:02:00Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Profiling doesn’t mean targeting every one of a particular race or religion for close scrutiny. The OP is about “_racial_ profiling”. Not “profiling”. Racial profiling is, _per se_, fairly useless, as has been effectively demonstrated in this very thread by listing the “race” and nationalities of the other prominent Al Qaeda attackers. Other forms of profiling, with intelligence added, I don’t have a problem with, and seem to be a logical way to go. Baseline airline security, however, _everyone_ needs to go through with - suck it up, yanks, us Euros have had to endure this for decades; you get used to it. (Protest the methodology, perhaps, as those incidents do sound pretty heavy-handed. Mind you, our cops shot an innocent Brazilian multiple times based on surveillance, so who are we to talk?) ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/25 "2010-11-23T15:24:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The OP is about “_racial_ profiling”. Not “profiling”. > > Racial profiling is, _per se_, fairly useless, as has been effectively demonstrated in this very thread by listing the “race” and nationalities of the other prominent Al Qaeda attackers. > > Other forms of profiling, with intelligence added, I don’t have a problem with, and seem to be a logical way to go. > > Baseline airline security, however, _everyone_ needs to go through with - suck it up, yanks, us Euros have had to endure this for decades; you get used to it. (Protest the methodology, perhaps, as those incidents do sound pretty heavy-handed. Mind you, our cops shot an innocent Brazilian multiple times based on surveillance, so who are we to talk?) However, any profiling will fall more heavily on Muslims and people from some countries like Pakistan or Syria, just as any genuinely effective attempt to control illegal immigration would fall more heavily on Hispanics. Not all of them, not even most of them, but enough that the PC crowd will still shout “Racism! Islamophobia! Discrimination!” ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/26 "2010-11-23T15:26:10Z")
When the problem is being groped at the airport TSA agents, the answer shouldn’t be “It’s an outrage that decent, upstanding white folks are being groped! Let’s just stick it to the brown people instead!” The answer is to end the freaking groping and the unreasonable searches! Not to transfer all that suffering onto a minority group just to minimize the bitching (and the public’s sympathy). In short, if the labia fondling and nakedscopes are necessary (they aren’t), then they are necessary. If they aren’t, then they aren’t. You can’t say “Well, they aren’t _really_ necessary… unless you’re a damned raghead!” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/27 "2010-11-23T15:40:18Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Don’t forget the Pakistanis (Times Square), the Indonesians (Bali bombings), the Haitians (Sears Tower Plot), the Caucasians (Jihad Jane) and the Latinos (Jose Padilla). > > Excellent, fair point, Shiny! > > My question, I guess then, is: “Are we willing to be un-PC in looking at people from the Middle East and regard them with legitimate suspicion because it WAS MIDDLE EASTERN MUSLIMS who slaughtered 3,000 innocent Americans!” (And Yes, I acknowledge a % of them were Muslim) So you’re not worried about terrorists who are Pakistanis, Indonesians, Haitians, Caucasians, and Latinos, none of them being Middle Eastern Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/28 "2010-11-23T15:47:29Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > When the problem is being groped at the airport TSA agents, the answer shouldn’t be “It’s an outrage that decent, upstanding white folks are being groped! Let’s just stick it to the brown people instead!” Nobody is seriously proposing such a thing. It is ridiculous that passengers must endure this demeaning ritual every time they fly because the PCers insist that any profiling at all is racist and discriminatory. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/29 "2010-11-23T15:50:04Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Nobody is seriously proposing such a thing. It is ridiculous that passengers must endure this demeaning ritual every time they fly because the PCers insist that any profiling at all is racist and discriminatory. Do you think there should be no baseline security for passengers who aren’t on the list? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/30 "2010-11-23T16:07:45Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Nobody is seriously proposing such a thing. It is ridiculous that passengers must endure this demeaning ritual every time they fly because the PCers insist that any profiling at all is racist and discriminatory. If the profiling is to be used _instead of_ groping, rather than simply excusing white people from the process, I could be persuaded. I’m not necessarily against profiling (in general, as opposed to simply targeting particular races), but I question the utility. As soon as Al Qaida (or whoever the Big Bad Terrorist Organization of the hour happens to be) finds out that white people get an easier time in security, who do you think they are going to hire for their next big bad terrorist plot? Basically it sounds to me like the gung-ho security cheerleaders from around 2002 (“You shouldn’t worry unless you’ve got something to hide”) are now getting a little fed up with their own medicine. But instead of wanting to roll back security to a more reasonable level, they just want to direct the brunt of it onto minorities. But as soon as you relax the rules on some segment of the population, you’ve created a weak spot that can be exploited. If the old saw about chains only being as strong as their weakest link is true, why create weak links in your security system? In other words, if it is okay to let white Americans bypass the groping, it ought to be okay to let everyone bypass it, including brown foreigners. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/31 "2010-11-23T17:12:18Z")
Every time people mention racial profiling, I think of the pick out the pitbull test. It’s pictures of a dozen dogs only one of which is a pitbull. Most people fail this test. All the dogs have very distinctive features that vary much more then any found in humans. It should be significantly easier to pick the pitbull out of a line up of dogs then say the Arab out of a line up of humans. Yet people, even educated ones can’t do it. So, now people are saying we should have low paid TSA workers picking out people based on race? How skilled do you think they are going to be at this? Should they simply ere on the side of caution and pull aside all brown people? Do Arabs, Hispanics, Italians, Asians, Africans, Indians, etc. all get equally harassed because 8 dollar an hour employees can’t tell the difference anyway? One of my friends is Saudi Arabian, both parents, yet he doesn’t stand out as foreign. It isn’t until people learn his name they have any idea he is Arab. Though if he puts on a head scarf it’s obvious to everyone. Racial profiling to me is something scarred and uninformed people bring up as a way to make them feel safer without any basis of how it would actually make them safer. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/32 "2010-11-23T17:25:21Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [QUOTE=Lonesome Polecat] > Nobody is seriously proposing such a thing. It is ridiculous that passengers must endure this demeaning ritual every time they fly because the PCers insist that any profiling at all is racist and discriminatory. If the profiling is to be used _instead of_ groping, rather than simply excusing white people from the process, I could be persuaded. [/quote] This is the key point: The outrage over TSA actions is largely driven by the fact that “ordinary” people are affected, i.e. folks that resemble the public at large. It’s the same logic that fuels outrage over, e.g., red-light cameras: They sound like great ideas until the public at large starts getting fined rather than “those people” (personally I think red-light cameras are a government money-grab so I’m not going to defend them). > [@](#): > > I’m not necessarily against profiling (in general, as opposed to simply targeting particular races), but I question the utility. As soon as Al Qaida (or whoever the Big Bad Terrorist Organization of the hour happens to be) finds out that white people get an easier time in security, who do you think they are going to hire for their next big bad terrorist plot? The point of the enhanced screening is to prevent someone bringing a non-metallic weapon (i.e. a bomb) onto an airplane, which seems to be an extremely rare event (I’d argue it would still be somewhat rare even if there were no security). Personally, I think it’s foolish for the TSA to wait until the very last minute to do this, which is essentially what they’re doing if they subject everyone to this process at the airport. That screening should be a “point of last resort”, but TSA seems to use it as a primary tool (again, I say this because everyone seems to be subject to the screening). Date of ticket purchase, luggage, passport status, criminal record, even a ticketing agent’s subjective evaluation of demeanor–there are probably hundreds of non-racial variables related to a passenger’s potential threat that could be considered prior to the airline issuing a boarding pass. Why can’t someone compile this data and stamp it on the boarding pass using a closed code? When you reach the screener checking your ID and boarding pass, have the screener shunt off passengers with the “wrong” code for private screening. Include a few red herrings in the mix who would go to the private room but would not really get screened–“I’m sorry, you were flagged for additional screening but the TSA sometimes does this to throw potential terrorists off the screening process. We will ask you to wait in this room for one minute, you will not be subject to any additional sceeening, have a nice day.” Keep a public log of the screened individuals to measure any racial/color/nationality/religious bias in the screeening process (or other factors which could lead a potential terrorist to accurately guess the method). Most passengers get thru the process quickly, and TSA can focus more efficiently on the potential (albeit rare) threats. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/33 "2010-11-23T17:36:00Z")
Can you please tell me what you mean by profiling? How will you distinguish a Muslim? What will you look at? How will you know I am not a Muslim? I look brown. I speak both Hindi and Urdu. Sometimes I wear salwar-kameez. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/34 "2010-11-23T17:42:37Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I didn’t realize that a large segment of Celtic Catholics have declared war on us. On humanity, [it would seem](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enniskillen_bombing). (Of course I realize that these crimes are the province of a large segment of Celtic Catholics, but then again nor has a large segment of the Islamic or Arab world been responsible for terrorist outrages). ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/35 "2010-11-23T17:54:53Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > As soon as Al Qaida (or whoever the Big Bad Terrorist Organization of the hour happens to be) finds out that white people get an easier time in security, who do you think they are going to hire for their next big bad terrorist plot? This. Ask any competent anti-terrorism expert about this issue, and this is what he/she will tell you. It’s not a desire to be overly PC that is keeping racial profiling from being deployed, it is the simple fact that racial profiling will not make us any safer, and will in fact probably make us less safe. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/36 "2010-11-23T20:40:45Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > In short, if the labia fondling and nakedscopes are necessary (they aren’t), then they are necessary. If they aren’t, then they aren’t. You can’t say “Well, they aren’t _really_ necessary… unless you’re a damned raghead!” Sorry, no. If you’re looking for islamic terrorists then part of the profiling involves looking for muslims that fit a profile. It’s mostly done with computers but what you would see at airports would be the politically incorrect grouping of people who fit the profile you’re looking for. By default there would be a greater number of Muslims subjected to further screening. Not all terrorists are Muslim but all Islamic terrorists are. All that expensive equipment at the airport exists because of Islamic terrorists so it makes sense to use technology to focus on definable profiles. It doesn’t mean we only focus on Muslims but it does mean we focus on the profiles that are developed based on historical data. Profiling should be one of a mix of techniques used to filter people toward higher levels of screening. We caught a major terrorist plot at the border of Canada using the same basic techniques the Israelis use. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/37 "2010-11-23T20:46:05Z")
> [@Spiff](#): > > This. > > Ask any competent anti-terrorism expert about this issue, and this is what he/she will tell you. It’s not a desire to be overly PC that is keeping racial profiling from being deployed, it is the simple fact that racial profiling will not make us any safer, and will in fact probably make us less safe. Computers can’t tell what color your skin is. A properly profiled person will stand out because a computer background check has sifted through information that fits a profile. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/38 "2010-11-23T21:12:04Z")
The color of a person’s skin doesn’t tell you whether he or she is a terrorist, but more to the point, it doesn’t tell you whether he or she is an Arab, a Muslim, or a Middle Easterner. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/39 "2010-11-23T21:25:10Z")
As a vaguely Arab looking male between the ages of 18 and 33, you may take it from me that the TSA is already racially profiling passengers, and has been for 10 years. > [@What\_the](#): > > I didn’t realize that a large segment of Celtic Catholics have declared war on us. The list of things you are unaware of is no doubt long and distinguished. Nonetheless, I await with interest what a “large segment” of a billion is. ---
**Author:** ![Zephyurs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/dfb087/32.png) [@Zephyurs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zephyurs)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639/40 "2010-11-23T21:26:40Z")
Can’t we just have a system where white people get to fly without passing through any security screenings, and everyone else has to go through the enhanced gropefest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-and-racial-profiling/561639.md?page=3)