# Political Correctness in our universities **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108 "2018-04-25T15:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/221 "2018-05-03T02:58:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I didn’t say they did. I said they are exploiting the same emotional manipulation tool that evil folks of the past and present have used. They are also breathing the same air and wearing the same fabric blends and eating the same varietals of goat cheese that evil folks of the past and present have used. Your argument is a very silly one. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/222 "2018-05-03T03:41:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t advocate violence as a rule. I advocate violence as a last resort in response to some verbal violence/toxicity which itself amounts to a slap in the face (and is often meant as such - “fighting words” if you will) ; that’s all. > > … > > When the drunk guy at the bar calls you a faggot, what he’s not doing is trying to engage you in a rational debate. When Sean Hannity opens his stupid mouth to say something disingenuous (but I repeat myself), he’s not looking for counter arguments. When the Pregnancy Crisis trailer parks in front of Planned Parenthood, they’re not here for an honest and informed dialogue with annotated cites. When Richard Spencer or Ann Coulter book a seminar on Berkeley’s campus, they’re not here for a chat, they’re trolling. And a burning cross is, technically, a form of speech. Unbelievable. You know, when your position depends on equating a guy in a bar calling you a faggot to a TV talking head spouting things you don’t agree with or like or don’t believe, it’s time to find a new position. And what gives you the right to determine who can speak at a campus? Coulter debates people often. Why don’t you put on some big boy pants and debate her? Do you find it too trying to even hear what she has to say? Even if you have the opportunity to show everyone how much smarter you are than the ex-editor of the Cornell Law Review? Hell, maybe you are, but not from what I’m seeing. There used to be a time when the left believed that the answer to speech you don’t like is more speech. Instead, now we have people like you ridiculously trying to equate apples and lawn mowers to justify taking the low road and fooling yourself that you’ve taken the moral high ground. It’s a sad state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/223 "2018-05-03T04:10:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Unbelievable. You know, when your position depends on equating a guy in a bar calling you a faggot to a TV talking head spouting things you don’t agree with or like or don’t believe, it’s time to find a new position. I did not equate the two. I merely gave a range of people who are not looking for an honest debate, nor should one waste one’s time giving them one. > [@](#): > > And what gives you the right to determine who can speak at a campus? Coulter debates people often. Why don’t you put on some big boy pants and debate her? Do you find it too trying to even hear what she has to say? Even if you have the opportunity to show everyone how much smarter you are than the ex-editor of the Cornell Law Review? Hell, maybe you are, but not from what I’m seeing. I wouldn’t debate Ann Coulter for the same reason I wouldn’t debate David Gish. She isn’t here to hear or even listen to me. She’s here to troll and saying whatever the most offensive shit comes to mind in order to rile people up. She doesn’t believe a word of what she’s spouting, much like Glenn Beck or the Infowars guy it’s all an act in order to sell books to spiteful cretins who think she dunks on librulz. It’s asinine and a waste of time. You do seem to be a fan, though 😉 > [@](#): > > There used to be a time when the left believed that the answer to speech you don’t like is more speech. Instead, now we have people like you ridiculously trying to equate apples and lawn mowers to justify taking the low road and fooling yourself that you’ve taken the moral high ground. > > It’s a sad state of affairs. Sometimes it is. Often, even. And sometimes it isn’t. But it _is_ funny to watch internet tough guys praise debate and speech when it’s the very thing they mock academics and liberals for. Often in the same breath. Partisanship - it’s a hell of a drug. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/224 "2018-05-03T04:18:15Z")
(BTW, I didn’t say Coulter should be banned from giving speeches on campuses. Just so we’re clear on that. She absolutely can. It’s also absolutely fair to protest her coming in return, and she shouldn’t act surprised if she is since that’s pretty much her shtick and she is, in fact, lapping that shit up to “prove” librulz be so hateful.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/225 "2018-05-03T04:31:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I didn’t say they did. I said they are exploiting the same emotional manipulation tool that evil folks of the past and present have used. That is, to repeat myself, inventing a punishment to be used against those who fit a certain label then shrieking that label repeatedly at those they wish to ostracize or otherwise harm. > > In some ways, the rule writers at SDMB recognize and have codified, imperfectly, mitigation against this very phenomenon. Assholes will be assholes. Thankfully, the vast majority of the left and liberals don’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/226 "2018-05-03T04:33:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The first appears to be an editorial article, and I didn’t see any specific reference to an actual incident of a student being sanctioned for hate speech. > > The second was a student expelled for shouting abuse at other students on campus, as well as repeated drinking violations and other behavior highly disrespectful to fellow students. Do you believe there should be no consequences for shouting racial slurs at others on campus? > > The third and fourth involved students advocating for the murder (lynching) of black people on a radio show and a video. Do you think there should be no school sanctions for advocacy of murder? > > The fifth involved a video of a student shouting abuse and racial slurs. Do you think there should be no school sanctions for shouting abuse and racial slurs on a video one posts to a public forum? > > The fifth is the only one I’m questionable on. From the article, she didn’t advocate violence or murder, just general hatred. Based on that article, I’m undecided and would want more info as far as whether it’s appropriate for a public university to sanction her. But all the others were pretty clearly very reasonably sanctioned, IMO. I took the time and effort to read and respond to every one of your cites, magellan01… But perhaps reasonable discussion isn’t as much fun for some as finding new ways to broad brush all liberals for the views of a tiny fraction. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/227 "2018-05-03T04:44:24Z")
Too late to edit : after self-doubt and quick check, that’d be Duane Gish, not David. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/228 "2018-05-03T05:33:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I did not equate the two. I merely gave a range of people who are not looking for an honest debate, nor should one waste one’s time giving them one. > > I wouldn’t debate Ann Coulter for the same reason I wouldn’t debate David Gish. She isn’t here to hear or even listen to me. She’s here to troll and saying whatever the most offensive shit comes to mind in order to rile people up. She doesn’t believe a word of what she’s spouting, much like Glenn Beck or the Infowars guy it’s all an act in order to sell books to spiteful cretins who think she dunks on librulz. It’s asinine and a waste of time. > You do seem to be a fan, though 😉 > > Sometimes it is. Often, even. And sometimes it isn’t. > But it _is_ funny to watch internet tough guys praise debate and speech when it’s the very thing they mock academics and liberals for. Often in the same breath. Partisanship - it’s a hell of a drug. And aside from your Nazi punching who in this thread is acting like an internet tough guy? 2017 and people still don’t understand why empowering the powerful to label and suppress/punish speech is a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/229 "2018-05-03T05:41:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I didn’t say they did. I said they are exploiting the same emotional manipulation tool that evil folks of the past and present have used. That is, to repeat myself, inventing a punishment to be used against those who fit a certain label then shrieking that label repeatedly at those they wish to ostracize or otherwise harm. > > In some ways, the rule writers at SDMB recognize and have codified, imperfectly, mitigation against this very phenomenon. But I was under the opinion that I as a Liberal was a pussy beta male who couldn’t tolerate a joke or simple insult, that I should fuck my feelings and stop being a snowflake about right wing “jokes”. Are you saying that we Liberals are being mean by labeling and laughing at conservatives and we should stop it? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/230 "2018-05-03T05:42:28Z")
> [@](#): > > And aside from your Nazi punching who in this thread is acting like an internet tough guy? I was mocking his use of “put on your big boy pants”. Which was risible to me in the context, or any context really. > [@](#): > > And when the real Nazis have been driven from occupied and/or collaborating nations it’s a fine time to find a fighting spirit. You’ve pretty much missed any news of the past ten/twenty years, have you ? They’re not defeated. They’re voting for Trump. > [@](#): > > 2017 and people still don’t understand why empowering the powerful to label and suppress/punish speech is a bad idea. So you dislike Trump doing it, correct ? And you strenuously oppose and rise against, say, the entire right-wing spectrum currently shitting on Michelle Wolf and trying to get her new show canned or to discontinue the tradition of having roast comedians at the WHCD, yes ? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/231 "2018-05-03T06:03:23Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But I was under the opinion that I as a Liberal was a pussy beta male who couldn’t tolerate a joke or simple insult, that I should fuck my feelings and stop being a snowflake about right wing “jokes”. > > Are you saying that we Liberals are being mean by labeling and laughing at conservatives and we should stop it? I’m saying the tool many are using is more dangerous than they think. Think of the consequences of blasphemy in Saudi Arabia. That’s not a good thing. Who decides what is and isn’t blasphemy? How can that concept be abused? > [@Kobal2](#): > > I was mocking his use of “put on your big boy pants”. Which was risible to me in the context, or any context really. > > You’ve pretty much missed any news of the past ten/twenty years, have you ? They’re not defeated. They’re voting for Trump. If every Trump voter is a Nazi then the Nazis have won. > [@](#): > > So you dislike Trump doing it, correct ? And you strenuously oppose and rise against, say, the entire right-wing spectrum currently shitting on Michelle Wolf and trying to get her new show canned or to discontinue the tradition of having roast comedians at the WHCD, yes ? Concerning Trump, there is a lot about Trump that I do not like. WHCD? I watch about an hour of tv a week so I haven’t paid attention to that. I’m consistently against mob justice in general. So I’m not a fan of mob justice in this case. That said, if we are going to be a dystopic world of mob justice it’s only fair to employ it against everyone who offends anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/232 "2018-05-03T06:22:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If every Trump voter is a Nazi then the Nazis have won. Here we go again with the measure and not extrapolatin’ from people’s words :rolleyes:. Kindly set fire to yon strawman, sir. So, to clarify : no, not every Trump voter is a Nazi, but there _are_ bona fide Nazis in modern day America (and France, and Italy, and the UK…), and most of the US ones are vocal Trump supporters. > [@](#): > > WHCD? I watch about an hour of tv a week so I haven’t paid attention to that. I’m consistently against mob justice in general. So I’m not a fan of mob justice in this case. That said, if we are going to be a dystopic world of mob justice it’s only fair to employ it against everyone who offends anyone. See, here’s the thing : if it’s wrong for your opponents to do a thing, IT’S WRONG FOR YOUR SIDE TO DO IT TOO. It’s doubly wrong when you’re actually making the whole thing up as an excuse for enabling your doing the thing. Which a certain fringe of the US right has become past masters at. Still waiting for examples of such mob justice, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/233 "2018-05-03T08:01:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > See, here’s the thing : if it’s wrong for your opponents to do a thing, IT’S WRONG FOR YOUR SIDE TO DO IT TOO. It’s doubly wrong when you’re actually making the whole thing up as an excuse for enabling your doing the thing. Which a certain fringe of the US right has become past masters at. > Still waiting for examples of such mob justice, BTW. I dunno about mob justice, but I can think of an apt comparison of someone IN AMERICA using emotional phrases to manipulate the American people against others for words that were TERRIBLE. But **octopus** doesn’t want to talk about McCarthy, because it doesn’t fit his narrative that liberals are evil thugs. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/234 "2018-05-03T16:32:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I’m saying the tool many are using is more dangerous than they think. Think of the consequences of blasphemy in Saudi Arabia. That’s not a good thing. Who decides what is and isn’t blasphemy? How can that concept be abused? Dude, you’re the guy who laughs and enjoys it as your side does this stuff every day, but stands by prepared to attempt to guilt the other side out of doing the same in return, because you know, “this stuff is dangerous”. Except that we see clearly that you’re not lifting a finger to condemn your own side’s daily uses of this tactic. In fact, you do it yourself on this board. As Yoda would say “Discredit you, this does. Disingenuous, it is.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/235 "2018-05-03T18:05:31Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Dude, you’re the guy who laughs and enjoys it as your side does this stuff every day, but stands by prepared to attempt to guilt the other side out of doing the same in return, because you know, “this stuff is dangerous”. > > Except that we see clearly that you’re not lifting a finger to condemn your own side’s daily uses of this tactic. In fact, you do it yourself on this board. > > As Yoda would say “Discredit you, this does. Disingenuous, it is.” Bringing out Yoda? That’s some serious escalation. The thing is your analogy fails because I don’t call for any form of sanction or mob punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/236 "2018-05-03T18:37:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Bringing out Yoda? That’s some serious escalation. > > The thing is your analogy fails because I don’t call for any form of sanction or mob punishment. Do you consider a call for a boycott, or the act of boycotting, a form of sanction or mob punishment? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/237 "2018-05-03T18:54:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you consider a call for a boycott, or the act of boycotting, a form of sanction or mob punishment? Absolutely a consumer exercising choice in the marketplace is a form of mob punishment. The free market is only supposed to be free for the marketers. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/238 "2018-05-03T21:29:13Z")
First of all, apologies to **LHoD** – I saw an entire page of **octopus** -inspired shenanigans and I confess to having not read the last page carefully (or, for the latter part of it, at all). > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s a pretty big caveat. Is that going to apply to future cites from you? If so, I won’t bother with them–cites that you don’t know whether they support your case aren’t particularly helpful cites. I didn’t say those cites didn’t support my position. I think they do. I offered them specifically because you asked me to provide court cases which struck down campus speech codes banning being an asshole. NB: I object to codes banning being “rude or disrespectful” an am ambivalent about codes banning “being a magnificent asshole.” I think they might be different! These are court cases which struck down campus speech codes, chosen not because these are cases I’m particularly knowledgeable about but because I could easily find them _and they support my position_ because they are court cases which struck down codes which prohibited certain types of speech because those prohibitions were too broad – types of speech which constitute, I believe, being a magnificent asshole. If you believe the courts would strike down policies which ban, e.g. hate speech, but would be happy to leave stand policies which ban rudeness, I don’t know what to say. When I say I am not interested in defending them, what I mean is that I did not spend a huge amount of time deciding whether I believed the court went _too far_. But even if the court went farther than I would have liked, that _still supports my position_. In a number line analogy: if you are at 1 and I am at 0 and the courts are at -1, then the courts support me in saying that you need to be below 1, even if they would go even farther than I would, which I don’t think they have done in the cases linked. But I admit that I didn’t actually devote an hour or two to sit down and carefully read the opinions. Meanwhile, I also provided a link to FIRE’s list of cases on campus speech codes that they think are relevant ([linked again](https://www.thefire.org/in-court/state-of-the-law-speech-codes/)) and a link to GMU case ([linked again](http://ia801309.us.archive.org/2/items/gov.uscourts.vaed.314481/gov.uscourts.vaed.314481.92.0.pdf)) which ruled that a clause banning “communication that may cause injury, distress, or emotional or physical discomfort” violates the student’s freedom of speech. Since you apparently want me to go into greater depth, let’s just read the relevant section of the GMU decision – it starts on about page 30 of the linked pdf, under section C. The court clearly concluded that “there can be no doubt that this language is susceptible to an interpretation that penalizes a substantial amount of protected speech” (internal quotations omitted). And it said that “it is clear that that Code 2013.9.B [the clause under discussion], if given a meaning in accord with its plain language, rises to the level of an unreasonable infringement of the freedom of speech wholly unrelated to the university’s interest in performing its educational mission,” i.e. that _Tinker_ does not allow the speech code. It also noted that the clause could be preserved through a reading which limited its scope – and which limited its scope to true threats or fighting words, but then the speech code isn’t one which prohibits typical ways in which one might be an asshole. So if the court says that you can’t bar students from communicating in a way which may cause distress or emotional discomfort, doesn’t that imply that you can’t bar students from forms or rudeness or disrespect which may cause distress? And if the courts allow you to be rude enough to cause distress, I can’t imagine they would disallow you from being rude enough not to cause distress! > [@](#): > > The FIRE cite you(?) offered previously had two footnotes for JHU, 15, and 17. One of them is the principles for equity. The other goes to [this document](http://web.jhu.edu/administration/provost/initiatives/academicfreedom/AcademicFreedomatJohnsHopkins.pdf), whence I drew that quote. If that’s not what you mean, I’m afraid you’ll need to be clearer about what you’re talking about. No, that’s it. I didn’t provide the cite – I went straight to FIRE’s section on Johns Hopkins, where they link to the code they actually flagged: the one where JHU prohibits rude or disrespectful conduct. Thanks for the link. As to why Johns Hopkins is red flagged by FIRE, it appears to be in no small part that the university both says that it permits the expression of views that others find offensive but also says that it does not tolerate rudeness – and that [in its view the former is a fig-leaf](https://www.thefire.org/how-can-johns-hopkins-university-get-off-fires-red-alert-list/) in light of past behavior and public comments from university officials. > [@](#): > > Context is important–but part of the context is of course that shitty social systems have been in place for centuries in our country, and bigoted abuse is one aspect of these shitty systems. Folks who are members of groups that have been traditionally oppressed often experience disproportionate stress when subjected to bigoted verbal abuse, making it disproportionately difficult to focus on studies. Without a clear benefit to allowing bigoted verbal abuse, the harm here outweighs the benefits. > > That said, objections to speech codes that are based on their fuzzy and overbroad nature can be pretty strong. In the abstract I’d like to ban being an asshole on campus, especially being a bigoted asshole; but I understand and appreciate the argument that this tumor can’t be cut away without cutting away healthy flesh. And that’s the argument that I’m making – that if you ban being “rude and disrespectful” that there’s an awful lot of wiggle room to ban behaviors which should be allowed. This is not to say that colleges and universities need to allow _all_ forms of behavior or speech. Just that I think that campus conduct and speech codes need to be narrowly and carefully designed, and that something like “thou shalt not be rude or disrespectful” is neither. > [@](#): > > I’m really not sure where you’re going with this. In general I’m far more concerned with what actually happens than with fears about what may happen, and in the category of what hasn’t happened I’m far more concerned about what there’s good evidence for the probability of happening than about what somebody has posited might possibly in theory happen but has never happened before. This applies to supporting speech as well as to constraining it, and also to every area of public life. Where I’m going with this is that it may be that I object to those codes which you defend precisely because they allow for abuses – cf court cases linked above and others on FIRE’s list, for examples – and I suspect you may not think those abuses are probable, hence the codes are fine. If I’m reading the tea leaves wrong, I apologize. It was an idle thought. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/239 "2018-05-03T21:55:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you consider a call for a boycott, or the act of boycotting, a form of sanction or mob punishment? I think it’s a legitimate act. However, the reach and magnitude of outrage is significantly greater now. So I think the impact of boycotts is quite often disproportionate. Even the threat of boycotts now is chilling and part of a larger problem. People talk about Russian ‘trolls’ as a bad thing. I think in the long term they are a good thing. People need to be reconditioned/retrained on how they react emotionally to mass media. Critical thinking skills and analysis needs to improve or in some cases newly acquired. Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s possible much less likely. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/240 "2018-05-03T21:58:17Z")
> [@g8rguy](#): > > As to why Johns Hopkins is red flagged by FIRE, it appears to be in no small part that the university both says that it permits the expression of views that others find offensive but also says that it does not tolerate rudeness – and that [in its view the former is a fig-leaf](https://www.thefire.org/how-can-johns-hopkins-university-get-off-fires-red-alert-list/) in light of past behavior and public comments from university officials. > And that’s the argument that I’m making – that if you ban being “rude and disrespectful” that there’s an awful lot of wiggle room to ban behaviors which should be allowed. This is not to say that colleges and universities need to allow _all_ forms of behavior or speech. Just that I think that campus conduct and speech codes need to be narrowly and carefully designed, and that something like “thou shalt not be rude or disrespectful” is neither. > > Where I’m going with this is that it may be that I object to those codes which you defend precisely because they allow for abuses – cf court cases linked above and others on FIRE’s list, for examples – and I suspect you may not think those abuses are probable, hence the codes are fine. If I’m reading the tea leaves wrong, I apologize. It was an idle thought. Oh, that’s the whole point of “don’t be a jerk” rule here. It gives the admin/mods the ability to label and sanction without worrying about precision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=13)