# Political Correctness in our universities **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108 "2018-04-25T15:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/21 "2018-04-25T23:35:06Z")
> [@](#): > > In a late-night tweetstorm, Randa Jarrar taunted the chorus of people demanding that she be fired from her tenured position at California State University at Fresno after she called the recently deceased Barbara Bush “an amazing racist” and exulted, “I’m happy the witch is dead.” > > “I will never be fired,” Jarrar wrote on Twitter. This professor shreds any iota of credibility she may have had with such verbal garbage. Reading stuff like this makes me cringe waiting for the inevitable right-wing responses. Breitbart couldn’t make up a better narrative. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/22 "2018-04-25T23:42:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What amazes me most about this case is that there’s not a thread on it already: we have a cadre of first-amendment defenders on these boards who are [So quick](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=851611&highlight=speech) [to jump on](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827560&highlight=university) [attacks on free speech](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20193190&postcount=4), on campus or off. Did y’all just somehow miss this occasion? Oh good lord, don’t you start this stuff too. It’s always foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/23 "2018-04-25T23:49:51Z")
Just for reference, the accusation of racism seems to stem from this statement she made in the Houston Astrodome, which was being used to shelter people who had been evacuated from New Orleans after Katrina. > [@Barbara Bush](#): > > Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them. Medium magazine is interpreting this statement in the following manner: > [@Medium](#): > > In Barbara Bush’s summation — the poor Black people — who just went through the unfathomable were not only threatening to clog up her city with their diseased and woefully hapless dispositions — but they also needed to be gratified by their plush surroundings — since it was a remarkable step up from their former shacks. I’d assume that she meant it in the sense that she meant that these people didn’t have many prospects - no spare savings that they could use to find housing, establish themselves somewhere else, etc. - so it was good that the Astrodome had been repurposed for the situation. Not to say that she wasn’t a racist - for all I know she was - but the argument seems like someone did their best to misread the words to support the view they wanted to have of her. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/24 "2018-04-26T00:00:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > While I’m delighted to be included in the “cadre of first-amendment defenders on these boards”, I’m a bit confused: Randa Jarrar, dumb bitch that she is, said some appropriately dumb and bitchy things. “The government”, in the form of the Cal State Fresno administration, decided she was exercising her protected free speech rights, and consequently did nothing to infringe on them by punishing her. Other private citizens exercised their free speech rights to criticize the dumb bitch, and the government also did nothing to infringe on their rights. Somehow, the result of all that is that you’re mystified that we’re not focusing on this? What is their to focus on? Where was the First Amendment violation? Why would anyone who supports the right to free speech be upset by this? > > ETA: I’m reasonably confident that if I HAD started a thread about this dumb bitch I would have been accused of “nut-picking”. It’s been suggested on this board that, when someone like Richard Spencer shows up on a college campus, the people demanding that he be kicked off are interfering with his right to free speech - perhaps not in a legal sense, but certainly in the philosophical sense. It’s been explicitly argued that this demonstrates that liberals do not understand or appreciate the concept of free speech. Would you agree that the conservatives who have demanded this woman be fired for being mean about a dead lady are proof of a similar lack of understanding of or appreciation for free speech among American conservatives? If not, can you explain why it’s okay for conservatives to demand that an employee lose her job over her speech, but it’s not okay liberals to demand that a guest speaker be dis-invited over his speech? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/25 "2018-04-26T00:06:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > While I’m delighted to be included in the “cadre of first-amendment defenders on these boards”, I’m a bit confused: Randa Jarrar, dumb bitch that she is, said some appropriately dumb and bitchy things. “The government”, in the form of the Cal State Fresno administration, decided she was exercising her protected free speech rights, and consequently did nothing to infringe on them by punishing her. Other private citizens exercised their free speech rights to criticize the dumb bitch, and the government also did nothing to infringe on their rights. Somehow, the result of all that is that you’re mystified that we’re not focusing on this? What is their to focus on? Where was the First Amendment violation? Why would anyone who supports the right to free speech be upset by this? > > ETA: I’m reasonably confident that if I HAD started a thread about this dumb bitch I would have been accused of “nut-picking”. You previously created a thread to subtly attack students who disagreed with a professor and exercised their free speech rights, yet didn’t feel the need to defend this other professor? I wonder what could be different… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/26 "2018-04-26T00:36:49Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You previously created a thread to subtly attack students who disagreed with a professor and exercised their free speech rights, yet didn’t feel the need to defend this other professor? > > I wonder what could be different… The students in my thread went a bit beyond just ‘disagreeing’ with the professor: > [@Is Evergreen State College the canary in the coal mine, foretelling the death of higher education?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-evergreen-state-college-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine-foretelling-the-death-of-higher-education/787914/1): > > … The police got called to escort him off campus (literally escort, as in protect from the protesters, not escort as in the typical remove-from-campus usage). Weinstein says the police told him to hold his classes off campus because the protesters were looking for him and they were concerned for his safety. … AFAIK, “this other professor” has not been credibly threatened with violence for her speech (but if she is, I condemn those threatening violence against someone for saying something disagreeable). Now do you understand the difference? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/27 "2018-04-26T01:05:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Once again, we’re seeing the doubleplus ungood forces of political correctness targeting anyone at an American university who doesn’t join in their groupthink. Is free speech really so poorly valued in our nation’s academic circles as this? > > I am speaking, of course, about [Randa Jarrar](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/04/25/fresno-state-says-it-cant-discipline-the-professor-who-called-barbara-bush-an-amazing-racist/?utm_term=.312a453baed1), who had the audacity to disagree with people about Barbara Bush’s legacy. She holds a different opinion, and in response, you have college students (and a helluva lot of other people) screaming about how she should get fired for daring to voice an opinion that isn’t politically correct. > > What amazes me most about this case is that there’s not a thread on it already: we have a cadre of first-amendment defenders on these boards who are [So quick](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=851611&highlight=speech) [to jump on](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827560&highlight=university) [attacks on free speech](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20193190&postcount=4), on campus or off. Did y’all just somehow miss this occasion? > > So, for debate, I propose this: attacks like the attack on Jarrar, in which conservatives mobilize by the thousands, and prominent figures call for her firing, are much more insidious attacks on free speech on campus than are a bunch of undergrads hollering about a professional provocateur on campus; and folks who focus on the latter, not the former, are motivated by partisanship and not by a dedication to free speech. I don’t care what that woman says. But if we are going to have speech police and thought police everyone should be afraid and not just some on the fringe right. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/28 "2018-04-26T02:12:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I believe she should be subject to disciplinary action for using the Arizona State University’s student crisis line phone number in her tweet, claiming it was hers. That kind of action is not punishment for her views; it would be punishment for recklessly doing something that might have clogged the lines and interfered with a genuine crisis. > > And if she were employed by a private entity, I’d agree with her firing because an employer has the right to protect his brand, which would be tainted by association. > > Neither of these things, in my view, are violative of the basic understandings of First Amendment protection. > > But when the employer _IS_ the government, there are stronger First Amendment protections, and so I agree that firing her or otherwise disciplining her merely for the hateful views she expressed towards the Bush family is not permissible. She’s alienated Republican students with her comment and they would have every right to suspect she would not grade fairly. What if she said something racially stupid about (pick a politician and use your imagination)? Municipalities routinely fire people over stuff like this. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/29 "2018-04-26T02:39:11Z")
There’s nothing wrong with what she said. The idea that it’s grossly offensive to call someone racist is stupid. It’s an idea that was created by racists to shield themselves. They can pretend that being called racist is worse than being racist. And any claim by the right about some sort of decorum died when they elected Trump, and refuse to try to get rid of him. When you say that political correctness is bad, they don’t get to turn around and then try to enforce political correctness. That said, they have a right to their own hypocrisy. I have no problem with them using their speech to demand she be fired. She shouldn’t be fired, mind you, and I would consider that a bad thing if she were, but the people who want her fired have the right to say so. Just like the kids have a right to say they don’t want a particular speaker on their campus. The school would be within their rights, IMO, to limit her public speaking roles, but not in firing her. She should only be fired for making the school look bad or doing a bad job, neither of which has she done. The thing the right does need to understand is that they can’t tell the left that being offended is wrong, and then turn around and have a different reaction when their ox is gored, and not be seen as total hypocrites who don’t really believe the shit they say. Oh, and finally, firing for giving out the wrong number is stupid, and comes from people looking for an excuse to condone firing her without the hypocrisy. The people who would call to harass her do in fact need mental health care. It’s only a problem if there are a lot of people who want to harass her. This is a lady who showed you what it means to not be politically correct. Do you think there aren’t many people who feel the same way about Mrs. Bush? They were just being PC in not mentioning it. Political correctness is just basic politeness. It just means not saying something at time when it might offend a lot of people. It means not saying what is correct, but only saying what is politically correct. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/30 "2018-04-26T02:54:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > AFAIK, “this other professor” has not been credibly threatened with violence for her speech (but if she is, I condemn those threatening violence against someone for saying something disagreeable). > > Now do you understand the difference? [Within days, Jarrar had received multiple death threats in response to her comments.](https://www.vox.com/2018/4/20/17257076/barbara-bush-death-randa-jarrar-fresno-state-professor-tweets-free-speech-college) I’ll wait for paragraphs of condemnation and speculation that this is the death of racists. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/31 "2018-04-26T02:55:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s been suggested on this board that, when someone like Richard Spencer shows up on a college campus, the people demanding that he be kicked off are interfering with his right to free speech - perhaps not in a legal sense, but certainly in the philosophical sense. It’s been explicitly argued that this demonstrates that liberals do not understand or appreciate the concept of free speech. > > Would you agree that the conservatives who have demanded this woman be fired for being mean about a dead lady are proof of a similar lack of understanding of or appreciation for free speech among American conservatives? If not, can you explain why it’s okay for conservatives to demand that an employee lose her job over her speech, but it’s not okay liberals to demand that a guest speaker be dis-invited over his speech? I would say it depends on what basis they are saying she should be fired. From a corporate perspective, or even a (local) government one, I can say that usually if someone is that much of an asshole they would, at best, but slapped about by HR. This has nothing to do with her 1st Amendment rights and everything to do with image. I would say the same if she was a conservative, a liberal, a communist or even a moderate… Well, maybe not if she was a moderate… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/32 "2018-04-26T03:13:26Z")
How are students who disagree with her political viewpoint supposed to trust her to be fair when she says: “Either you are against these pieces of s— and their genocidal ways or you’re part of the problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/33 "2018-04-26T03:16:25Z")
I really think this incident is proving the opposite of what you think it is. The usual “Political Correctness GONNNE MADDD!!” scenario is: 1. Public figure says something mildly right wing, or at least not particularly left wing 2. People a lot lefter than them go crazy on social media 3. Public figure gets the sack 4. Wailing, gnashing of teeth Whereas here we have 1. Public figure says something somewhat left wing (and also totally lacking in class) 2. People probably righter than them go crazy on social media 3. Public figure stays in their job 4. Public figure mocks opponents for thinking they could touch her Um … conservative point proved, I guess? IANAConservative ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/34 "2018-04-26T04:19:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with what she said. The idea that it’s grossly offensive to call someone racist is stupid. It’s an idea that was created by racists to shield themselves. They can pretend that being called racist is worse than being racist. And any claim by the right about some sort of decorum died when they elected Trump, and refuse to try to get rid of him. When you say that political correctness is bad, they don’t get to turn around and then try to enforce political correctness. > > That said, they have a right to their own hypocrisy. I have no problem with them using their speech to demand she be fired. She shouldn’t be fired, mind you, and I would consider that a bad thing if she were, but the people who want her fired have the right to say so. Just like the kids have a right to say they don’t want a particular speaker on their campus. The school would be within their rights, IMO, to limit her public speaking roles, but not in firing her. She should only be fired for making the school look bad or doing a bad job, neither of which has she done. > > The thing the right does need to understand is that they can’t tell the left that being offended is wrong, and then turn around and have a different reaction when their ox is gored, and not be seen as total hypocrites who don’t really believe the shit they say. > > Oh, and finally, firing for giving out the wrong number is stupid, and comes from people looking for an excuse to condone firing her without the hypocrisy. The people who would call to harass her do in fact need mental health care. It’s only a problem if there are a lot of people who want to harass her. > > This is a lady who showed you what it means to not be politically correct. Do you think there aren’t many people who feel the same way about Mrs. Bush? They were just being PC in not mentioning it. > > Political correctness is just basic politeness. It just means not saying something at time when it might offend a lot of people. It means not saying what is correct, but only saying what is politically correct. The problem BigT is the hypocrisy from the left. Those who badger, riot, and assault at public universities to suppress speech they don’t like now want to protect this troll of a professor with a concept they are quick to discard when it suits their purposes. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/35 "2018-04-26T05:04:36Z")
This may be a GQ question, and I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but I’ve always wondered: The First Amendment only says that “Congress” shall not prohibit free speech. What prevents state governments, city councils, public universities, and every form of American government not named “Congress” from banning free speech? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/36 "2018-04-26T05:29:35Z")
Section 1 of the [Fourteenth Amendment](https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27#toc-amendment-xiv): > [@](#): > > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. The “due process” and “equal protection” parts of the Fourteenth Amendment ([but not so much the “privileges or immunities” wording](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughter-House_Cases)) have been held to apply nearly all of the Bill of Rights to state and local governments, a process called [incorporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/37 "2018-04-26T05:31:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This may be a GQ question, and I don’t mean to hijack the thread, but I’ve always wondered: The First Amendment only says that “Congress” shall not prohibit free speech. What prevents state governments, city councils, public universities, and every form of American government not named “Congress” from banning free speech? I had somehow never noticed that. My assumption would be that it relies something on the logic that it’s the same thing for Congress to infringe free speech as it is for Congress to create an organization that infringes free speech. You can’t just let them avoid the Constitution by finding or creating proxies. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/38 "2018-04-26T05:47:31Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > [Within days, Jarrar had received multiple death threats in response to her comments.](https://www.vox.com/2018/4/20/17257076/barbara-bush-death-randa-jarrar-fresno-state-professor-tweets-free-speech-college) > > I’ll wait for paragraphs of condemnation and speculation that this is the death of racists. It’s mildly interesting to me that you left off the source for this claim. The article says: > [@](#): > > Within days, Jarrar had received multiple death threats in response to her comments, she tweeted. She has since removed / blocked / privatized / whatever her tweets, so I can’t even verify that she tweeted that, let alone whether she actually received death threats. In any case, it certainly doesn’t appear to have risen to the level that police were warning her to stay away from campus over concerns for her safety, does it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/39 "2018-04-26T09:18:18Z")
She should not be fired and I’ve said on social media that she should not be fired. The world already knows she’s a ridiculous person, isn’t that enough? There’s a division on the right on issues like this: about a third of people are just as censorious as the PC left, another third are free speech defenders, and another third want to claim scalps simply to get revenge on the left or to send a message. The latter third have a point. For all that lefties love to make people lose their jobs when they say things they don’t like, as much as they like to boycott, in the real world this tactic hurts liberals more than it does right-wingers. So a lot of right-wingers argue to keep on doing it to them until they learn. So I also take the opportunity whenever a lefty on social media is defending Colin Kaepernick or Kathy Griffin or this professor, “Hey, why don’t we change the culture back to tolerance of offensive speech?” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/40 "2018-04-26T09:31:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The problem BigT is the hypocrisy from the left. Those who badger, riot, and assault at public universities to suppress speech they don’t like now want to protect this troll of a professor with a concept they are quick to discard when it suits their purposes. Sad. Who wants to “riot and assault”? No one in this thread that I’m aware of, and no more than a barest fringe of liberals/leftists (and conservatives/rightists). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=3)