# Political Correctness in our universities **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108 "2018-04-25T15:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/61 "2018-04-26T23:47:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your calls for people to collect impossible-to-collect data are as absurd as ever; as ever, I assume that you’ll claim some sort of victory and dance around with the imaginary trophy when I don’t collect this data that is obviously impossible to collect. Go ahead and dance, Shodan! You do realize how this kind of response looks? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/62 "2018-04-27T06:04:31Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You do realize how this kind of response looks? It’s **Shodan** ’s schtick. Then when you actually PROVIDE the statistics, he replies “Hurr durr you’re wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/63 "2018-04-27T08:55:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > On the one hand, the university is right - Jarrar’s speech was 1st Amendment protected, and in a private capacity. On the hand, I strongly suspect that a professor who expressed pro-KKK or pro-Nazi views on his/her private blog/Twitter wouldn’t have been dealt the same leniency by the school. Well, there’s Arthur Butz, whose school refuses to fire him because he has Tenure. Arthur Butz is a holocaust denier. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/64 "2018-04-27T09:03:28Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Your opinion is precisely why there is tenure I’m reasonably sure it was invented as a way to keep highly-desirable professors in their Chairs, but hey, maybe tenure was invented in the US :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/65 "2018-04-27T11:47:50Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I’m reasonably sure it was invented as a way to keep highly-desirable professors in their Chairs, but hey, maybe tenure was invented in the US :smack: I’m not sure how my sentence referred specifically to the invention of tenure, nor did it exclude all possible justifications for tenure. But thank you for the information. Do you have a cite for it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/66 "2018-04-27T12:45:31Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You do realize how this kind of response looks? It looks like what it is - as close as he can get to a concession that his claim was not evidence-based. _:shrugs:_ GD is the place for witnessing, after all. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/67 "2018-04-27T15:23:46Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > My issue is that she used the cloak of tenure, and to a similar extent, the first amendment to be an asshole. If she had stated today, after the funeral, that she felt the positive comments about Mrs. Bush were not earned and that she supported wars that were evil and unlawful, I would have supported that right. And while I understand someone could be an asshole to me, and a freedom fighter to you, it annoys me that she’s using these freedoms for a purpose that I don’t think they were intended for. As has been pointed out, I think college professors used tenor as carte blanche to be jerks, and grind personal axes in public and that wasn’t what it was intended for. I wonder what her fellow “college professors” think of her? I mean doesnt it make the whole profession of “college professor” look pretty bad if one can gloat about making $100k a year of taxpayers and student tuition dime and get away with whatever the hell she wants? How about setting a good example? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/68 "2018-04-27T15:31:23Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > [Emphasis added] > So, you’re lamenting that centrist democrats never move away from objectionable comments… > and then you provide two examples of just that behavior. > > I’m so confused… Well actually I checked and she canceled her appearance at that event by herself. They didnt fire her. Frankly they should have. On my other example, Stephen Fowler, yes, that was my point. Some groups on the left DO actually stand up to extremists or persons who make their group look bad. Although this was back in 2009. Maybe liberal groups have lost their backbone? ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/69 "2018-04-27T16:16:31Z")
The university administration started with a typical chickenshit response that they’d [begin an “investigation”](https://apnews.com/9b7e16e73806406fb6518b924528f45d?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APCentralRegion). > [@AP](#): > > University President Joseph Castro on Wednesday called Jarrar’s comments disrespectful and said they went beyond free speech, the newspaper reported. > > “A professor with tenure does not have blanket protection to say and do what they wish,” Castro said. “We are all held accountable for our actions.” Thankfully, it didn’t take them long to drop the free speech side of that. The subsequent letter from the president was much better on free speech issues. It might still be worth looking into the spamming-the-counseling-line thing. That’s really shitty behavior, above and beyond the awfulness of the original comments. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/70 "2018-04-27T20:48:19Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I wonder what her fellow “college professors” think of her? Presumably very little, because if this is your go-to example of “problematic college professor” then you’re clearly not paying attention… ---
**Author:** ![Jetaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jetaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jetaway)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/71 "2018-04-28T23:14:35Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m unaware - would a person who had a history of making statements like these be eligible to receive tenure? Could other inflammatory remarks distinct from their professional role be considered disqualifying when seeking tenure? > > Because if that’s the case, then it shouldn’t matter either before or after tenure is achieved. I’m a tenured Professor in the CSU system. Between the contract, coded memos from the Chancellor’s Office, and University policies it is well and narrowly spelled out what can be considered when granting or denying tenure. The general answer is no, inflammatory remarks distinct from their professional role (or within, for that matter) cannot be used either to grant or deny tenure. Promotion and Tenure decisions are to be based solely on material presented by the candidate in their dossier. This would provide one of the exceptions to the generally no rule; if the faculty member specifically included the inflammatory remarks in their dossier; (I’m chuckling to myself here – should unkind, petty, and flat out ignorant remarks about a recently deceased First Lady; remarks that cause a public uproar go under “Service to the University” or “Service to the Community?”) then the statement could be evaluated and would could be used in the tenure decision. The faculty member would be under no obligation to include it in their dossier and frankly, if they did, I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my career working with such an idiot. One other actionable possibility is if her statements were made under the electronic equivalent of University letterhead, which could give the impression that her statement was made under the auspices of the University. So, if it was a private Twitter account, nope, if a school-issued account, she’d likely keep her job (but more than likely would not be granted tenure) but would get cuffed around quite a bit by administration and one would hope, colleagues. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/72 "2018-04-29T03:59:39Z")
> [@Jetaway](#): > > I’m a tenured Professor in the CSU system. Between the contract, coded memos from the Chancellor’s Office, and University policies it is well and narrowly spelled out what can be considered when granting or denying tenure. The general answer is no, inflammatory remarks distinct from their professional role (or within, for that matter) cannot be used either to grant or deny tenure. Promotion and Tenure decisions are to be based solely on material presented by the candidate in their dossier. This would provide one of the exceptions to the generally no rule; if the faculty member specifically included the inflammatory remarks in their dossier; (I’m chuckling to myself here – should unkind, petty, and flat out ignorant remarks about a recently deceased First Lady; remarks that cause a public uproar go under “Service to the University” or “Service to the Community?”) then the statement could be evaluated and would could be used in the tenure decision. The faculty member would be under no obligation to include it in their dossier and frankly, if they did, I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my career working with such an idiot. One other actionable possibility is if her statements were made under the electronic equivalent of University letterhead, which could give the impression that her statement was made under the auspices of the University. So, if it was a private Twitter account, nope, if a school-issued account, she’d likely keep her job (but more than likely would not be granted tenure) but would get cuffed around quite a bit by administration and one would hope, colleagues. It’s a shame that students don’t get the same benefits with regards to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/73 "2018-04-29T04:45:22Z")
> [@Jetaway](#): > > I’m a tenured Professor in the CSU system. … Thanks for the insight, and welcome to the Straight Dope! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/74 "2018-04-29T05:13:40Z")
As a centrist I’m happy to condemn assholes on both the left and the right, and Prof. Jarrar certainly seems to be an asshole. Since the right-wing is in a dominant position now and is using its power to permanently damage American society, it is tempting to focus one’s venom on assholes of the right. But my posts have also consistently opposed assholism and “political correctness” from the left. It is the backlash against such behavior from the _left_ that has led to increased _right_-wing power. There is a recent trend here at SDMB that is very telling—and sad. When a left-wing (resp. right-wing) asshole outs himself (or herself) instead of anyone actually Pitting the asshole, we see a right-winger (resp. left-winger) condemn the “hypocrites” who haven’t pitted the asshole! Or even, as here, a left-winger (resp. right-winger) condemning the hypocrites who are NOT condemning the right-wing (resp. left-wing) “hypocrites” who are not condemning the condemners. Thus this thread serves as a paradigm for how insanely polarized American political “thought” has become. ---
**Author:** ![doubleminus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@doubleminus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubleminus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/75 "2018-04-29T12:15:10Z")
Not an American, but I completely identify with what Jarrar said. Maybe not classy, but true. Are the right-wing people also such snowflakes ? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/76 "2018-04-29T12:18:28Z")
Only on one side, because they sure can dish it out. See: Oval Office holder. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/77 "2018-04-29T13:40:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Thus this thread serves as a paradigm for how insanely polarized American political “thought” has become. Yeah? Well, I say it’s you radical middle-of-the-roaders that are leading our path to ruin. You’re the Larry Fines of the American electorate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/78 "2018-04-30T00:07:23Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > You do realize how this kind of response looks? To you? To Shodan? I don’t care. To the general public? Come back to me with a poll of 2,000 randomly chosen members of the general public, including representation from the global politic at large, with an analysis of the results, and I’ll listen. I’ll take a failure to do so as a concession that you’re wrong :). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/79 "2018-04-30T05:51:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Yeah? Well, I say it’s you radical middle-of-the-roaders that are leading our path to ruin. You’re the Larry Fines of the American electorate. 😕 Do you know me in real life? My haircut looks just like Louis Feinberg’s. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/80 "2018-04-30T12:58:26Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > If there were no tenure, she’d be fired already. Yet there is a need to be able to openly express opinions like these. It’s our cultural norm to say nice things about recently deceased political figures, but maybe this norm is doing a disservice to promoting a better political landscape. Tenure: that is why it is needed in academia. I don’t know if this is also a trend in the USA, but in Europe there seems to be a strong trend towards appointments for a limited period only, sometimes only one year. Who can get a career going if they don’t know where they will be in 12 months time - and have to go through hoops to get another appointment? That stifles any initiative, let along dissent. Eulogies for the recently dead: yes, we do tend to stick to bland platitudes, the real story with the the shit-throwing comes out later. The woman here was just too hasty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=5)