# Political Correctness in our universities **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108 "2018-04-25T15:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/101 "2018-05-01T20:07:37Z")
Part of the problem - maybe the entire problem? - is as follows: 1. Telling the truth, as you see it, is the only way to be honest. If you are telling the truth as someone else sees it, you are denying your own core values. (Or if telling the truth is not one of your core values then I don’t want to talk to you.) 2. **Sometimes, “the truth as you see it” is bullshit.** Sometimes, you’re wrong. And sometimes you’re a high-status person who’s wrong, and you don’t want to be corrected by a low-status person who’s right. And you’d prefer that the low-status person would go away so you can continue spouting your bullshit in peace. Back to point #1: If you think you’re such a high status person that your status is above the status of the truth, and if you think that whatever a low-status person says must be false, then (a) I sure as \*hell \* don’t want to talk to you, (b) you don’t deserve your status, and © grow a brain. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/102 "2018-05-01T20:10:52Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > If you study history, at all, you’d know that the form of rhetoric you are so strongly for is a tool used to suppress speech and thought. In your crusade against the KKK and other bogeymen you unwittingly support an even more dangerous concept. At some point these emotionally manipulative techniques could be used to mobilize a mob against a position you hold. Cite? The pit. And the merits of your position won’t matter. All that people will hear are your shrieking opponents chanting “hate speech” and other ad-hominem attacks. > > Why is the left being critiqued? Because nonsense like political correctness and ‘cultural appropriation’ have moved into the land of the bizarre with their applications. “Your use of speech to criticize my speech is suppressing speech!” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/103 "2018-05-01T21:07:53Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > “Your use of speech to criticize my speech is suppressing speech!” That’s disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/104 "2018-05-01T21:09:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s disingenuous. So what, specifically, is your complaint? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/105 "2018-05-01T21:18:11Z")
iiandyiiii, What’s the difference between hateful speech and hate speech? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/106 "2018-05-01T21:22:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > iiandyiiii, > > What’s the difference between hateful speech and hate speech? ? No idea. Whatever they are, both are legal and protected, as is criticism of both, including calling it hateful or hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/107 "2018-05-01T21:46:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > ? > > No idea. Whatever they are, both are legal and protected, as is criticism of both, including calling it hateful or hate speech. Here’s the difference. Referring to something as hateful speech is a simple description. Speech may be mean, loving, careless, precise, ugly, beautiful, ridiculous, or hateful, along with a bunch of other adjectives. “Hate speech” is different. It seeks to create a category that we all agree is hateful. And that ain’t going to happen. And once that is done, then the next step is to punish and/or forbid it. This is already happening on campuses. Just look at Jordan Peterson who was vilified for refusing to knuckle under to stupidity and agree to refer people by the pronoun of their choice. Tell me why do we need such a phrase as “hate speech”? What is the purpose of it? What is the utility? What would we be missing if their was no category called “Hate Speech”, just like there is no category called “Beautiful Speech”, “Sardonic Speech”, Wry Speech", etc.? The answer is that the left is trying to weaponize it to protect them from countless imagined microagressions. They need to grow up, not be coddled and told that they have a point. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/108 "2018-05-01T21:50:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here’s the difference. Referring to something as hateful speech is a simple description. Speech may be mean, loving, careless, precise, ugly, beautiful, ridiculous, or hateful, along with a bunch of other adjectives. > > “Hate speech” is different. It seeks to create a category that we all agree is hateful. And that ain’t going to happen. And once that is done, then the next step is to punish and/or forbid it. This is already happening on campuses. Just look at Jordan Peterson who was vilified for refusing to knuckle under to stupidity and agree to refer people by the pronoun of their choice. > > Tell me why do we need such a phrase as “hate speech”? What is the purpose of it? What is the utility? What would we be missing if their was no category called “Hate Speech”, just like there is no category called “Beautiful Speech”, “Sardonic Speech”, Wry Speech", etc.? The answer is that the left is trying to weaponize it to protect them from countless imagined microagressions. They need to grow up, not be coddled and told that they have a point. This is a straw man, and/or an argument about semantics. Okay, this is how you see this phrase, but that’s just your opinion, and my opinion is quite different, as is the opinion of most or all the liberals I know. I answered your questions - why don’t you answer the ones I asked you earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/109 "2018-05-01T22:17:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yup. Shining light on your hypocrisy It’s kind of your to label your post as not worth reading so early on; saves me time! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/110 "2018-05-01T22:25:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a straw man, and/or an argument about semantics. Okay, this is how you see this phrase, but that’s just your opinion, and my opinion is quite different, as is the opinion of most or all the liberals I know. > > I answered your questions - why don’t you answer the ones I asked you earlier? Claiming something is a strawman doesn’t make it so. Especially in this case where in many countries, including the US, you can indeed be punished for speech. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/111 "2018-05-01T22:39:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a straw man, and/or an argument about semantics. Okay, this is how you see this phrase, but that’s just your opinion, and my opinion is quite different, as is the opinion of most or all the liberals I know. > > I answered your questions - why don’t you answer the ones I asked you earlier? Please remind me of the questions you want answered. In the meantime, can you answer the ones above in the last paragraph? Also, what I asked earlier: "To point out the stupidity of such a thing, try to define it. And tell me, who gets to declare that speech X constitutes as “hate speech”? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/112 "2018-05-01T22:42:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s kind of your to label your post as not worth reading so early on; saves me time! I don’t blame you one bit for looking for an excuse to not defend your hypocrisy. Wise decision on your part. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/113 "2018-05-01T22:45:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Claiming something is a strawman doesn’t make it so. Especially in this case where in many countries, including the US, you can indeed be punished for speech. Yes. And Europe is the canary in the coal mine. People have been punished for factual speech because it the left’s delicate sensibilities. We ignore the canary as it regards both speech and immigration. Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/114 "2018-05-01T22:47:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Please remind me of the questions you want answered. In the meantime, can you answer the ones above in the last paragraph? > > Also, what I asked earlier: "To point out the stupidity of such a thing, try to define it. And tell me, who gets to declare that speech X constitutes as “hate speech”? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? Who has called for banning/criminalizing any speech, including hate speech? I would oppose any such efforts, as would every liberal I know, including many students who criticize hate speech in their campuses. Criticism and challenge is part of free speech. > > Anyone can characterize any other speech in any way they want, including calling out hate speech. Including saying that they think assholes should shut up, and that their campuses shouldn’t give special privileges to bigots. That’s actually a necessary part of free speech. > > Yes, I draw the line at violence - including state violence to ban hate speech, or to ban criticizing hate speech. Where do you draw it? As for why we need hate speech, I don’t have an opinion. It’s a phrase like any other, used to describe racist and otherwise bigoted speech. If you don’t like it, fine, but why should I care if you prefer a different phrase? I don’t see how it’s different from any other descriptor, and your definition sounds like nonsense. As for who gets to declare speech as hate speech, anyone can call any speech anything they like. You can call my speech hate speech if you want. That’s part of free speech - anyone can criticize any other speech they want, including using phrases that you don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/115 "2018-05-01T22:52:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Claiming something is a strawman doesn’t make it so. Especially in this case where in many countries, including the US, you can indeed be punished for speech. What do you mean by punished? Do you mean someone might criticize you? If so, that’s a feature of free speech, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/116 "2018-05-01T22:54:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What do you mean by punished? Do you mean someone might criticize you? If so, that’s a feature of free speech, not a bug. In Europe you can go to jail. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/117 "2018-05-01T23:04:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As for why we need hate speech, I don’t have an opinion. It’s a phrase like any other, used to describe racist and otherwise bigoted speech. If you don’t like it, fine, but why should I care if you prefer a different phrase? I don’t see how it’s different from any other descriptor, and your definition sounds like nonsense. > > As for who gets to declare speech as hate speech, anyone can call any speech anything they like. You can call my speech hate speech if you want. That’s part of free speech - anyone can criticize any other speech they want, including using phrases that you don’t like. Your second paragraph is exactly right, but it is using hate speech as “hateful speech”. We agree on all your points there. But the problem I’m pointing to can be seen already in Europe, and to a lesser extent here on college campuses where some schools do have hate speech codes. So, evidently, what classifies as hate speech is not just up to anyone, there is a governing authority. The good news is that the number of schools doing this may be coming down. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/118 "2018-05-01T23:05:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In Europe you can go to jail. I prefer the American version of free speech. This doesn’t conflict with anything I’ve posted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/119 "2018-05-01T23:07:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Your second paragraph is exactly right, but it is using hate speech as “hateful speech”. We agree on all your points there. But the problem I’m pointing to can be seen already in Europe, and to a lesser extent here on college campuses where some schools do have hate speech codes. So, evidently, what classifies as hate speech is not just up to anyone, there is a governing authority. The good news is that the number of schools doing this may be coming down. Despite the panic in many conservative blogs, I don’t see this actually happening on American campuses. No one is going to jail for speech. Some people are getting criticized, which is part of free speech. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108/120 "2018-05-01T23:09:21Z")
In USA Freedom of Speech is nominal, rather then real. People have been bullied, harassed, fired, and blacklisted just for stating facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-in-our-universities/813108.md?page=7)