# Political correctness is cowardice. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829 "2014-06-02T12:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/81 "2014-06-04T14:26:16Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > People take offense at some words. It was not always thus for those words. It doesn’t matter. I really don’t get why this is hard to get. It is not hard to get. On the other hand, it does matter. Telling a person who has only known self-identified “Oriental” people that they are being rude is only going to confuse them that some odd person is correcting their speech for no good reason. Telling an elderly person that “Negro” is rude when not one black person in 10,000 might actually take offense at it is, itself, rude. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/82 "2014-06-04T18:05:01Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Telling an elderly person that “Negro” is rude when not one black person in 10,000 might actually take offense at it is, itself, rude. Are you serious? You think that 0.001% of black people taking offense at an old white person calling them “negro” is a high estimate? My counter-estimate: more than 50% of black people would be irritated if this happened, and more than 25% would be offended. The folks who wouldn’t be offended are predominately older black people, who lived at a time when the word was in common parlance in polite company. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/83 "2014-06-04T18:10:25Z")
I’ll tell you what. I will take a poll of every one of my co-workers and vendors to see if ANY of them would be offended. (Viewing the word as “quaint” or “odd” does not equate to offended; we are talking about giving offense, not simply looking like a dork.) ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/84 "2014-06-04T18:50:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Great Antibob](#): > > > > Even if you’re a good person, that doesn’t mean all your actions, no matter how well intentioned, are reasonable, nor does it mean they should be accepted by other people. We all want to think of ourselves as “good guys” and hence that all our actions are reasonably justified. It just isn’t the case. > > This is a point that you should ponder and recall before you decide to not let a person “off the hook” for using an inoffensive, if outdated, word. Well put. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > YOU don’t get to be the one to decide what offends ME. It somewhat amazes me how many times this lesson has to be repeated. No, but YOU get to decide what offends YOU. If you choose to take offense where none is meant, then be prepared to be offended, because you will be, by your own choices. Of course there are terms that are very emotion-laden and you have little power. But there are plenty that are more marginal where a little self-coaching might be helpful. We have to coach ourselves all the time; this should be no big trip. I’m not saying that if we’re being “nice” we can use any words we want. What I’m saying is that rather than thinking about cutting slack, you should think about communication and empathy. As should we all. I’m amused by how quickly we cycle through terms, and what once were euphamisms are now considered offensive. Just look at the list of words we’ve used to refer to old follks! What are we supposed to call them now? Well, since I’m one of “them”, I don’t worry about it any more! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/85 "2014-06-04T18:55:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’ll tell you what. I will take a poll of every one of my co-workers and vendors to see if ANY of them would be offended. Ah, I misunderstood. When I read “not one black person in 10,000 might actually take offense at it,” I missed where you said, “not one black person in 10,000 that I work with might actually take offense at it.” I’d say the correct standard for “is offended” is “is irritated and would be appreciative if the person doing it would knock it off.” When you do your poll, you should ask folks if they’d appreciate it if the elderly folks saying “negro” found a different word to use instead, and ask them if they find it a bit irritating. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/86 "2014-06-04T20:39:08Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That’s the classic excuse and one that still fails to convince me. YOU don’t get to be the one to decide what offends ME. It somewhat amazes me how many times this lesson has to be repeated. It’s a two-way street though. I don’t have to give a shit if you’re offended or not, especially if you’re not someone whose opinion I care about. There’s a huge difference between using a word that may not be in vogue vs. using a word that’s deliberately hurtful. To wit; a black man who gets his panties in a twist about being called “black” vs. African-American doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on, IMO. He’s being pedantic and a bit silly- there’s no reason to believe that the person using “black” had any hurtful intent, and it’s commonly used and considered non-offensive by most people, black or white. Had someone called him a “coon”, then he’d be justifiably pissed off. Another thing I’ve often wondered about is just who gets to choose what words are offensive and verboten anyway? To continue the above example, I think a lot of black people are just fine with “black”, and some prefer “African American”, but only the really out there ones appropriate “African American” and proclaim that “black” is now offensive or something silly like that. Or for that matter, the word “tranny” that there’s another heated thread about. I always heard it used for transvestites, not transgender people. And as we all know, there are a whole lot (most?) of transvestites that are just straight or gay, and not transgender. Yet in that thread, there are people getting all torqued because they’re assuming that it’s some sort of transgender slur, when it may not be. Derogatory, sure, hateful, maybe, but not necessarily transgender at all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/87 "2014-06-04T20:58:28Z")
Who concocted the wording “decide to be offended?” Being offended is an emotional response and I’ve never seen anyone decide to take offense at anything. You can decide to give someone the benefit of the doubt and not take offense and you can reason your way out of being offended, or for that matter you can feign offense, but the phrase seems like an easy way to imply the other person is being disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/88 "2014-06-04T21:11:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Ah, I misunderstood. When I read “not one black person in 10,000 might actually take offense at it,” I missed where you said, “not one black person in 10,000 that I work with might actually take offense at it.” I didn’t. I threw out a huge number off the cuff–as you and I both know. It could easily be wrong. However I find estimates of 50% and 25% to be even less realistic. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’d say the correct standard for “is offended” is “is irritated and would be appreciative if the person doing it would knock it off.” When you do your poll, you should ask folks if they’d appreciate it if the elderly folks saying “negro” found a different word to use instead, and ask them if they find it a bit irritating. Your definition of “offended” is so narrow as to make public discourse impossible. I know people who are offended by “African American.” I know people who are offended by “black.” I do not know any person who is offended by “Oriental” who actually has Asian ancestors. (I realize that many people of Asian descent are offended, but I do not happen to know any.) And if “I wish you would stop” is the bar beyond which is “offensive,” then it would seem that we need a new word to identify things that are truly offensive. The standard is set when a sufficient number of people make their case known expressing displeasure. It is not set when any specific individual gets his or her panties in a twist. I can find actual public statements by some black people decrying “African American,” although too few to make that term offensive. I cannot recall seeing anyone in the last twenty years objecting to “Negro,” as opposed to simply noting that it is old-fashioned. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/89 "2014-06-04T21:31:02Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I cannot recall seeing anyone in the last twenty years objecting to “Negro,” as opposed to simply noting that it is old-fashioned. Here you go: > [@Oxford Dictionary](#): > > Negro (together with related words such as Negress) has dropped out of favour and now seems out of date or even offensive in both British and US English. [And more](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/11/us/new-york-juror-form-negro/) > [@CNN](#): > > “Yes, I identify as black or African-American, but I am not a Negro,” said a 25-year-old teacher from New York City. > On Monday, when Raeana Roberson took the day off from work to report for jury selection, she was not prepared for what she called an offensive and disgusting experience. > The juror information card all prospective jurors have to fill out included a race category that included, “Black, African-American, or Negro.” > “Are you kidding me? What year is this?” Roberson thought when she read the form. [And more](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/02/25/172885551/no-more-negro-for-census-bureau-forms-and-surveys): > [@NPR](#): > > The Census Bureau announced Monday that it would drop the word “Negro” from its forms, after some described it as offensive. According to the Associated Press, the term will be replaced next year by black or African-American. From the AP: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/90 "2014-06-04T21:37:19Z")
[And here’s some hard data](http://newsone.com/410452/polls-reveal-black-americans-contradictory-feelings-on-negro/): > [@NewsOne](#): > > In one poll, NewsOne/Blackplanet asked members, “Does the word ‘Negro’ offend you?” 70 percent said no, the word does not offend them, while only 30 percent said yes. > However, in a follow-up poll, we asked, “If a white person called you a negro, would it offend you?” and the responses almost completely switched. 67% said they would be offended, while only 33 percent said they would not. I don’t know what NewsOne/Blackplanet’s polling mechanism is; it’s probable it’s self-reporting. But that dynamic–a black person would get offended if a white person called them a negro–is exactly what I’d expect. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/91 "2014-06-04T23:56:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is absurd. What do you even mean by this? Do you mean that, when someone is called “politically correct”, they don’t cringe and roll over in a posture of submission? Do you mean that when bigots try to defend their bigoted arguments by attacking political correctness, other folks continue to call them out on their bigotry? What do you even mean? > > Bonus: give examples. And if you give this thread as an example, we will all point and laugh. With all due respect, I believe your post exemplifies the very point he was trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/92 "2014-06-05T00:39:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, no, it’s something we use to **overcome** our intransigence. That depends who the word “we” includes. ALL of society does not subscribe to “political correctness,” especially lower/middle class working Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/93 "2014-06-05T00:50:42Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > With all due respect, I believe your post exemplifies the very point he was trying to make. If his point is that “political correctness” is what happens when someone makes a point you don’t like, and rather than addressing their point you just call them a name, hoping that’ll shut down debate, then he–and others who call people “politically correct”–are the guiltiest perpetrators of political correctness. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/94 "2014-06-05T01:02:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Here you go: > > [And more](http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/11/us/new-york-juror-form-negro/) > > [And more](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/02/25/172885551/no-more-negro-for-census-bureau-forms-and-surveys): Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/95 "2014-06-05T01:30:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Interesting. To me, the most illuminating was the poll of magazine readers, who suggest it’s just odd and not offensive generally, but would be offended if a white person used it. I wonder if you’d feel the same way: instead of polling your co-workers, would you be willing to drop “negro” into casual conversation with black co-workers or clients? How do you think they would respond, if you used the word in appropriate context instead of saying “black” or “African American”? I know that when I teach my third graders, occasionally the word comes up–most often in conjunction with the Negro Leagues, sometimes as part of study of MLK, sometimes in a read-aloud. Whether I give some historical usage context first or whether I just use the word outright, I always have at least one black student flinch. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/96 "2014-06-05T21:04:27Z")
“Political Correctness” is a concept that enjoyed a brief vogue on the Left in the 1970s, but was quickly abandoned and only referenced ironically shortly afterwards as a guard against their own orthodoxy in social change efforts. Nobody serious on the Left today expects ‘political correctness’, and nobody has for decades. In the 1990s, however, the term was picked up by the political Right as a pejorative, and is now used as an apologia for all kinds of bigotry and willful ignorance, and to gin up the fake ‘culture war’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/97 "2014-06-05T21:08:59Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > That depends who the word “we” includes. ALL of society does not subscribe to “political correctness,” especially lower/middle class working Americans. Well, there you are, that’s why we need political correctness and need to insist on its observance as a baseline standard of decorum in America. Lower/middle class Americans can certainly learn to observe it regardless of whether they approve, same as with any other rules of courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/98 "2014-06-05T23:41:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, there you are, that’s why we need political correctness and need to insist on its observance as a baseline standard of decorum in America. Lower/middle class Americans can certainly learn to observe it regardless of whether they approve, same as with any other rules of courtesy. “We” and “insist.” Sounds oppressive and dictatorial. ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/99 "2014-06-06T00:00:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The first human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization. ~Sigmund Freud what if the first guy to throw a stone hurled an insult first? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829/100 "2014-06-06T00:13:09Z")
> [@JEngelman](#): > > As a political ideology Marxism is pretty much dead in the United States, and in the West. During the War in Vietnam Marxism was a minority persuasion in the anti war movement. > > The American Communist Party consists of several thousand members nationwide. I doubt that the Progressive Labor Party consists of more than several hundred members. If there are any other Marxist organizations in the United States they are equally ineffectual. > > I do not know of anyone who claims to be a cultural Marxist. It does not seem to be anything more than a derogatory term for social liberal. > > Social liberalism is not a movement, but a set of values, and a way of behaving that have become the consensus in the United States. Those who dislike these changes like to pretend that they are the result of a conspiracy of a powerful but small elite. They like to pretend that if they could defeat the elite, the American People would revert to the ethos of the 1950’s. I wonder if your “consensus” is something like this: > **[Abortion](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx)** > > With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life? Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances? I find a lot of “social liberal” ideas are in fact only supported at about the fifty percent mark, give or take a few points, and wonder exactly how that would translate into a “consensus.” If political correctness has anything to do with making 50% support for something a consensus, then I am against it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-is-cowardice/689829.md?page=6)