# Political Correctness Outside the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136 "2005-04-13T15:32:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/41 "2005-04-20T13:51:13Z")
> [@Captain Roscoe](#): > > Now I understand that this is a just a survey (asking for views about the upcoming election, if you must know), but it’s a UK survey, for UK respondents, and I thought it went some way to illustrate the idea of ‘we say it like it is’. Who was running the surver? If it was a survey from an opinion poll or from a major party, I’m surprised by their simplistic choice of possible answers. Simply because it would be impossible to make meaningful conclusions from the resulting figures. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Roscoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f6c823/32.png) [@Captain\_Roscoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Roscoe)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/42 "2005-04-21T12:21:18Z")
It was an opinion poll survey - a Greenfield Online poll, to be exact. I agree it would be difficult to form conclusions, yes, but just wanted to show everyone an example. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/43 "2005-04-22T15:52:28Z")
I first heard the term “Politically Correct” in the early 1980’s from Canadian friends who always talked about it as a Canadian thing. It was years later before I heard it in connection with the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/44 "2005-04-23T01:12:24Z")
> [@Captain Roscoe](#): > > OK, I was filling in a survey just now, and thought of this thread. > > **The question:** > > What is your race? > > **The options:** > > - White > - Black > - Asian > - Arabic/Middle Eastern > - Other > Now I understand that this is a just a survey (asking for views about the upcoming election, if you must know), but it’s a UK survey, for UK respondents, and I thought it went some way to illustrate the idea of ‘we say it like it is’. Okay, we get it - you think that you’re amazingly straightforward. I personally think that that question and its categories are idiotic and a simple-minded, hamfisted attempt to ape American-style racial catagorization that wouldn’t even work the same for the UK, but then that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/45 "2005-04-23T13:55:53Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Okay, we get it - you think that you’re amazingly straightforward. I personally think that that question and its categories are idiotic and a simple-minded, hamfisted attempt to ape American-style racial catagorization that wouldn’t even work the same for the UK, but then that’s just me. This particular example is hamfisted, I think we can all agree on that. But I fail to understand why you think it’s not possible for the UK to use race catagorisations? I linked to the 2001 census race statistics earlier - and [here’s](http://www.britishcouncil.org/diversity/race_population.htm) some further explantion of the question used there: > [@](#): > > The question about ethnic group was similar to the one asked in 1991 on this topic, but with changes in some of the categories. In particular, people could tick “mixed” for the first time. The question asked “What is your ethnic group?”. Respondents had to choose one of five principal options and for each of these there were then several sub-categories. These sub-categories included “any other”, and respondents who ticked this box were asked then to write in their own words how they described themselves. The pattern of options was as follows: > > - White, with sub-categories of British, Irish and any other white background. > > - Mixed, with sub-categories of white and Caribbean, white and African, white and Asian and any other mixed background. > > - Asian or Asian British, with sub-categories of Bangladeshi, Indian, Pakistani and any other Asian background. > > - Black or Black British, with sub-categories of Caribbean, African and any other black background. > > - Chinese or other ethnic group, with sub-categories of Chinese and other. Do you think that is ‘apeing’ anything? It came across to me as a well-thought-out attempt to get a real idea of how British residents identify themselves. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/46 "2005-04-23T14:58:15Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > This particular example is hamfisted, I think we can all agree on that. But I fail to understand why you think it’s not possible for the UK to use race catagorisations? I linked to the 2001 census race statistics earlier - and [here’s](http://www.britishcouncil.org/diversity/race_population.htm) some further explantion of the question used there: I don’t know everything about British history, so maybe I’m completely wrong, but as far as I know (and am concerned), the UK has two groups: natives and immigrants. In the US, our racial groups actually mean something leagally. Whether you’re black, white, Native American, or an immigrant dictated your legal status throughout the nation’s _entire history_. We didn’t just come up with these separations for fun of pidgeon-holing - they’ve leagally dictated the social structure of our nation since its inception. In the UK, what’s the point of lumping a French immigrant into the white category with natives? Would he get the same set of legal and social priviledges as a native and yet a set different from that of an Indian immigrant? And would that Indian immigrant have a different legal status from a Chinese one? > [@](#): > > Do you think that is ‘apeing’ anything? Yes, because our categories for forced into existence in order to hold our social structure together, we didn’t draft them to help our citizens better identify themselves like you admit you did. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/47 "2005-04-23T17:12:34Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I don’t know everything about British history, so maybe I’m completely wrong, but as far as I know (and am concerned), the UK has two groups: natives and immigrants. Nope. It’s immigration all the way. Asians, Caribbeans, Jews, Vikings,… I’m not being facetious. There’s no homogenous ‘native’ Britons. > [@](#): > > In the US, our racial groups actually mean something leagally. Whether you’re black, white, Native American, or an immigrant dictated your legal status throughout the nation’s _entire history_. We didn’t just come up with these separations for fun of pidgeon-holing - they’ve leagally dictated the social structure of our nation since its inception. In the UK, what’s the point of lumping a French immigrant into the white category with natives? Would he get the same set of legal and social priviledges as a native and yet a set different from that of an Indian immigrant? And would that Indian immigrant have a different legal status from a Chinese one? But none of that applies to present-day America, does it? And it doesn’t explain the “Italian-American”-type designations. ---
**Author:** ![ur8it](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecd19e/32.png) [@ur8it](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ur8it)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/48 "2005-04-23T19:11:25Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Nope. It’s immigration all the way. Asians, Caribbeans, Jews, Vikings,… I’m not being facetious. There’s no homogenous ‘native’ Britons. > But none of that applies to present-day America, does it? And it doesn’t explain the “Italian-American”-type designations. Perhaps here in the states, and the U.K., the categorization of ethnic groups is still a very political condition, y’know, the govt’s way of monitoring their growth, voting district lines, etc… as I recall in Pol Sci 101, if certain ethnic groups were growing proportionately larger than others, in order to stunt their potential voting power, politicians would alter voting district lines,so in that respect, keeping up with the #s of ethnic growth was/still is, very important… and filling out variious hospital, college, employment forms, designating which group you belong to, is also measuring/monitoring method… so while many of us (in the melting pot) have ancestry in other countries, saying “I’m Italian-American,” or “German-American” doesnt really mean much (IMHO), unless you’re required to select one of the listed groups, which also includes, “Other” for those who feel ‘it’s none of your fuck’n business.’ What do you do when your parents list their ethic group appropriately on a birth certificate, yet admins at the hospital list the birth child you as “White” just what in the fuck does “WHITE” mean anyway? And why in the fuck would hospital admin do that? Maybe he/she was instructed to do it? If so, why? I did a little research on other births from this particular hospital and 3 dif ethnic families experienced the same thing…hmmmm… i smell sumpthin fishy. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/49 "2005-04-23T20:04:42Z")
> [@ur8it](#): > > Perhaps here in the states, and the U.K., the categorization of ethnic groups is still a very political condition, y’know, the govt’s way of monitoring their growth, voting district lines, etc… as I recall in Pol Sci 101, if certain ethnic groups were growing proportionately larger than others, in order to stunt their potential voting power, politicians would alter voting district lines It’s worth pointing out that gerrymandering (especially that seen with American redistricting) is completely illegal in the UK. Redefining electoral boundaries is always done by independent comissions. > [@](#): > > What do you do when your parents list their ethic group appropriately on a birth certificate, yet admins at the hospital list the birth child you as “White” just what in the fuck does “WHITE” mean anyway? Do American birth certificates really contain this information? I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/50 "2005-04-23T20:10:56Z")
I ate a lot of [_Negerköpfe_ (aka _Negerkuss_) (Negroheads/Negrokiss)](http://dict.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/forum.cgi?action=show&group=forum003_correct_l&file=20041019170608) in Germany in the mid 80’s and everybody seemed to use the word quite unconsciously and without shame…that was just what they were known as and it even said so on the box. Times change and there was a push for a [politically correct name](http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zeitung/archiv/.bin/dump.fcgi/1997/0919/freizeit/0005/) for these awesome chocolate marshmallow candies, they are now known as choco-kisses and other less whimsical names. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136/51 "2005-05-26T23:49:41Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > We don’t limit the use to urban cultures at all. > > To the best of my knowledge, there was never _really_ an issue over what to call manhole covers. The only times that I have heard people actually talk about this supposed controversy were when critics of the women’s movement or critics of gender-free language wanted to ridicule other _genuine_ concerns about biased language. Which is where virtually all the ludicrous PCisms came from (vertically-challenged, and so on.) It’s amazing how well it’s worked as a propaganda device: people present those terms as though there was some sort of organized campaign to force us to use them, when in actuality they were all invented by either standup comedians or hack pundits speculating on what was next on the slippery slope of PCism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-outside-the-u-s/299136.md?page=2)