# Political Correctness ruining the US (or at least the holidays?) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371 "2013-11-20T19:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/61 "2013-11-21T15:43:54Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I think of myself as a “Non-observant Jew”. My brother once asked me if I was still circumcised. > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Does that mean you’re invisible? Nah, it means he’s cut, but never looks at it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/62 "2013-11-21T16:48:44Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m offended by that smilie. I guess I’d better return your Kwanzaa present then. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/63 "2013-11-21T17:15:18Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Wait. If you are born a Jew, you are a Jew, whatever your religion is? So you could be a jew that is catholic? Technically, yes. In practice, most Jews won’t accept you if you’re Catholic. But if you decide to return to Judaism, you will not need a conversion like non-Jews do. > [@](#): > > How does that work? And if you denounce judaism, you are still a jew? So it’s more like a nationality than anything? It’s a tribal identity. The religion is just part of it, although it served to hold the tribe together for four thousand years or so. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/64 "2013-11-21T17:19:39Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > That’s more of a UK English thing. Normally in US English people would say “vacation” for a day off work (even if they aren’t actually going anywhere). I always thought the difference between _vacation_ and _holiday_ was one of duration. Vacation a week or usually more; holiday usually a single day; _holidays_ perhaps a week or less. Agreeing with me: [QUOTE=Google’s dictionary] vacation: an extended period of recreation, esp. one spent away from home or in traveling. [/QUOTE] More relevant to OP: Is it curious that the very people most adamant that Christmas retain the name associated with Jesus are often the very same people who prefer a different name for Martin Luther King’s Birthday holiday? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/65 "2013-11-21T18:24:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is the correct halakhahic statement in the Conservative and Orthodox traditions, but I don’t believe it’s an accurate statement of Reform practice. See, e.g., Contemporary American Reform Responsa, number 68: > > > [@](#): > > > > For us in the Jewish community anyone who claims that Jesus is their savior is no longer a Jew and is an apostate. Jeebus, why is this so hard to understand? **There is no central authority that declares who is a Jew and who is not a Jew.** Members of a certain group may subscribe to whatever that group’s policy is, but “Reform Jews” is waaaay too broad of a category to generalize about. There is no one “standard of Reform practice.” Whoever wrote that book certainly isn’t speaking for me. You can’t lump “Orthodox Jews” in together either. While I think we can safely assume that most Orthodox Jews would have a stricter interpretation of who is Jewish than a typical Reform Jew, you can’t assume that a Modern Orthodox person would have the same threshold as a Satmar. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/66 "2013-11-21T18:57:58Z")
Green Bean: > [@](#): > > you can’t assume that a Modern Orthodox person would have the same threshold as a Satmar. Yes you can. Any version of “Orthodox” takes their version of “Who is a Jew” from the Torah/Talmud/Shulchan Aruch, as they do all matters of genuine Halacha. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/67 "2013-11-21T18:58:50Z")
And they all interpret the relevant scripture the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/68 "2013-11-21T19:08:47Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Yes you can. Any version of “Orthodox” takes their version of “Who is a Jew” from the Torah/Talmud/Shulchan Aruch, as they do all matters of genuine Halacha. :: sigh :: The ultra-orthodox always think they make the rules. p.s. You know I adore you, **C**. You’ve always been one of my favorite posters. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/69 "2013-11-21T19:30:05Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Can someone tell me if this is actually what we want? One fucking asshole has “an issue” with the word “holiday” (which is now used because I guess jewish people **and black people feel slighted if one says “Merry Christmas” instead of Happy Kwanzaa** Ah, so you don’t actually know any black people. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/70 "2013-11-21T19:54:26Z")
Sammy Davis, Jr was a Jew\* _and_ Black. I’m not sure which happened first. - or was he Jewish? Goodness, now I’m confused… . ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/71 "2013-11-21T20:37:22Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > OP, can’t you just tell people it’s their problem and not yours? Not in the world of Political Correctness and Human Resources, especially a spineless HR Dept. that has no idea of what they can and cannot say to an employee. My answer to you (and to this employee) would have been something along the lines of “I’m sorry you are offended by the word holiday, however it is not an offensive word and being offended by it would appear to be a personal choice, not one based on anything logical”. Actually, if I was on the receiving end of this complaint, I would have not said a word… If it was a phone call, i would have hung up (voice mail, deleted, no reply). Email would similarly be deleted with no response, and in person, I would probably have shaken my head, asked the person to please leave my office and close the door behind him, and hope he got the hint. I would NOT have contacted the person who wrote the email. My wife is not able to tell the person anything, as HR has been brought into it. Anyone familiar with how HR departments are run (or can be run) knows that getting in their radar screen is bad enough, but to exasperate any situation is worse. So, my wife did the only thing she could have done, i believe. Politely refuse to apologize, and say no more until she has to. Of course, this has now snowballed to involve her boss as well as the next level of HR, so who knows where this will go… Hopefully, someone will come to their senses and say “enough… Let’s go back to work.” > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m well aware of the etymology but the term is used in the US and elsewhere to refer to secular, civic days. Note that wiki said “_originally_.” Exactly. In Europe, i believe they use the term “Holiday” to refer to vacation time… I’ve had many co-workers based in Switzerland and Britain who would say they were going on or just came back from “Holiday.” > [@Ludovic](#): > > If only we had a more inclusive smiley, maybe a happy orthodox jewish guy… Wasn’t the orthodox jewish smiley originally created for a guy who apparently was a complete fraud on this board? I think bringing that particular smilie back would be a bad idea because of all the baggage attached to it. > [@rogerbox](#): > > Ah, so you don’t actually know any black people. I know a number of black people, mostly co-workers, but a few friends. Not one has ever said anything to me regarding Kwanzaa at all, including asking for time off, demanding it be acknowledged, or anything else. I am guessing here, but at least the folks I know would identify themselves as some type of christian, and celebrate Christmas. I had a conversation with a black friend in grad school about Kwanzaa and he knew nothing about it, other than the standard info that most people know. He didn’t know any family or friends that celebrated it. I admit my sample size is small, but I’ve never heard anything about it in a corporate setting. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/72 "2013-11-21T20:58:39Z")
You’re thinking of the Wally (Putz) for WallyM7 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/73 "2013-11-21T21:32:24Z")
Green Bean: > [@](#): > > :: sigh :: > > The ultra-orthodox always think they make the rules. Sorry, I don’t get it. Non-Orthodox Jews don’t consider the Torah the final word on matters of halacha, and Orthodox Jews - whether they’re called “Modern” or “Ultra” or “Haredi” or “Hasidic” - do. No “Modern Orthodox” Jew is going to say that the halachic standard of who is a Jew was imposed by the “Ultras” and that they disagree. There are certainly some differences, but not in core matters like that. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/74 "2013-11-21T21:32:43Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Sammy Davis, Jr was a Jew\* _and_ Black. > I’m not sure which happened first. > > - or was he Jewish? Goodness, now I’m confused… > > . What’s black and white and Jewish and has two eyes? Sammy Davis, Jr. and Moshe Dayan. or Rashida Jones. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/75 "2013-11-21T23:42:31Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I know a number of black people, mostly co-workers, but a few friends. Not one has ever said anything to me regarding Kwanzaa at all, including asking for time off, demanding it be acknowledged, or anything else. I am guessing here, but at least the folks I know would identify themselves as some type of christian, and celebrate Christmas. > > I had a conversation with a black friend in grad school about Kwanzaa and he knew nothing about it, other than the standard info that most people know. He didn’t know any family or friends that celebrated it. I admit my sample size is small, but I’ve never heard anything about it in a corporate setting. So when you said, and I quote, “black people feel slighted if one says “Merry Christmas” instead of Happy Kwanzaa,” you knew ahead of time you were just making shit up? ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/76 "2013-11-22T23:12:32Z")
Where I work my department used to have one person of the Jehovah’s Witness persuasion. We’d have seasonal potlucks, and every year in December the office would host a lunchtime feast that consisted of turkey with all the trimmings, Dress-blues Marines to accept Toys for Tots donations, and charity raffles. The JW wouldn’t attend the festivities because JWs don’t celebrate holidays. So it couldn’t be a Christmas party or a holiday celebration. She wouldn’t even participate in the potlucks or lunch. I just don’t get it. You DO eat, right? I can understand not wanting to decorate, participate in gift giving, etc., but you DO eat? I say, if you’re going to be offended at the word “holiday,” then don’t take the day off! Not one person EVER complained of having to take a paid day off or getting an annual bonus. (Well, THOSE don’t happen anymore :() No holiday pay for YOU! And BTW, in the UK a day when the office is closed but you get paid it’s a “bank holiday.” If it’s your own scheduled time off, that we in the US call “vacation,” it’s just simply “holiday.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/77 "2013-11-22T23:17:03Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It doesn’t mean the downfall of Western civilization as we know it. > [@Marley23](#): > > I never get what I want for the holidays. What, the downfall of Western civilization as we know it? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/78 "2013-11-22T23:27:42Z")
Let’s settle this whole Jewish thing. Here’s my take on it: Jews a remembers of a tribal religion. But that means that we view the world through the lens of a tribal religion, and in effect, think of all other religions as being tribal religions, too. That means that an atheist Jew is still a Jew - they may have chosen not to follow tribal customs, but they’re still members of the tribe. Jews who convert to another religion, though, have chosen to join a \*different \*tribe - say the Christian tribe - which means they can no longer be Jews. It makes no difference that Christianity isn’t tribal. To Jews, you religion is a sign of tribal allegiance. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/79 "2013-11-23T00:06:14Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > The JW wouldn’t attend the festivities because JWs don’t celebrate holidays. So it couldn’t be a Christmas party or a holiday celebration. She wouldn’t even participate in the potlucks or lunch. I just don’t get it. You DO eat, right? I can understand not wanting to decorate, participate in gift giving, etc., but you DO eat? Some I’ve known wouldn’t want to involve themselves in any part of the holiday requiring some form of participation. Having the office closed and getting paid for it doesn’t count as “participating” in their eyes. YMMV big time ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/80 "2013-11-24T22:04:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I always thought the difference between _vacation_ and _holiday_ was one of duration. Vacation a week or usually more; holiday usually a single day; _holidays_ perhaps a week or less. That might be how certain dictionaries define things, but that’s not how it’s used by US Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371.md?page=5)