# Political Correctness ruining the US (or at least the holidays?) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371 "2013-11-20T19:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/81 "2013-11-25T00:35:47Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Sorry, I don’t get it. Non-Orthodox Jews don’t consider the Torah the final word on matters of halacha, and Orthodox Jews - whether they’re called “Modern” or “Ultra” or “Haredi” or “Hasidic” - do. No “Modern Orthodox” Jew is going to say that the halachic standard of who is a Jew was imposed by the “Ultras” and that they disagree. There are certainly some differences, but not in core matters like that. So they don’t even count as ethnically Jewish? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/82 "2013-11-25T02:06:01Z")
Oh for the days when men practiced boxing, shooting and fencing, carried sword canes, and settled arguments the biologically correct way. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/83 "2013-11-25T04:16:48Z")
Guinastasia: > [@](#): > > So they don’t even count as ethnically Jewish? Huh. Who doesn’t count as ethnically Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/84 "2013-11-25T05:26:35Z")
I cannot tell you how often a polite gesture has ruined my religious observance. Something must be done about ‘those people’. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/85 "2013-11-25T06:46:55Z")
^ Just out of curiosity, may I ask for one concrete example? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/86 "2013-11-25T07:51:19Z")
Sometimes I wonder how people like that would get on around here where we celebrate Christmas Hari Raya Chinese New Year Deepavali as official state sanctioned holidays, in addition to Easter, and many companies will also celebrate Hungry Ghost Month… ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/87 "2013-11-25T09:37:17Z")
Have her send out a retraction email, apologize to the guy for using a generic word and re-title it IO SATAURNALIA FESTIVITIES and mention that they will not be torturing nor burning anybody in the amphitheater this year. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/88 "2013-11-25T12:58:34Z")
“Happy Holidays” and “Season’s Greetings” were being used when I was a child. Never in my life have I seen either used as a matter of pc. This is my 71st Christmas. Some of the larger stores like Walmart ask their employees to say “Happy Holidays” just as a matter of inclusiveness. It doesn’t mean “Don’t have a Merry Christmas.” To me it’s the difference in telling a woman that one of her feet is bigger than the other and, instead telling the same woman that one of her feet is smaller than the other. I am a Christian who enjoys good wishes in any way that it’s said or implied. If I wish someone “Merry Christmas,” I would not appologize for saying it. I wouldn’t mind saying that I’m sorry the other person was offended by my good wishes. My usual signature (author unknown) is this: “You may take the expression “politically correct,” write it on a piece of paper, set it ablaze and place it far, far inside your sweetly rounded, cherubic bum.” I am sick to death of hearing that expression, but that is my problem, not yours. I wish you all merriness and light. (Can I say that in the Pit?) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/89 "2013-11-25T20:38:49Z")
> [@kath94](#): > > Where I work my department used to have one person of the Jehovah’s Witness persuasion. We’d have seasonal potlucks, and every year in December the office would host a lunchtime feast that consisted of turkey with all the trimmings, Dress-blues Marines to accept Toys for Tots donations, and charity raffles. The JW wouldn’t attend the festivities because JWs don’t celebrate holidays. So it couldn’t be a Christmas party or a holiday celebration. She wouldn’t even participate in the potlucks or lunch. I just don’t get it. You DO eat, right? I can understand not wanting to decorate, participate in gift giving, etc., but you DO eat? > > I say, if you’re going to be offended at the word “holiday,” then don’t take the day off! Not one person EVER complained of having to take a paid day off or getting an annual bonus. (Well, THOSE don’t happen anymore :() > > No holiday pay for YOU! Was she “offended” or did she just not participate? Why are you so hostile to the Jehovah’s Witness? What difference does it make to you whether she participates in the potluck or not? To say “you DO eat” shows that you have exactly zero understanding of how JW’s handle these things. I’m not exactly an expert myself, but having worked with a few and talked with them about it, I know that dealing with holidays in a work situation can be tricky for them. So cut them some slack and lay off the nastiness. The personal lives of your coworkers is none of your business. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/90 "2013-11-25T21:12:26Z")
I am generally in agreement with your post, well, other than your allowing such an insignificant issue to bend you so utterly out of shape. What I don’t understand is your suggestion that black people are as observant of Kwanzaa as Jewish people are of Chanukkah. > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Can someone tell me if this is actually what we want? One fucking asshole has “an issue” with the word “holiday” (which is now used because I guess jewish people and black people feel slighted if one says “Merry Christmas” instead of Happy Kwanzaa, or Happy Hanukkah… Is it your belief that enough black people celebrate Kwanzaa for it to be a major issue if it is not acknowledged? How many black people do you personally know who observe Kwanzaa? I don’t know any. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/91 "2013-11-25T21:23:34Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Guinastasia: > > Who doesn’t count as ethnically Jewish? Sorry, I meant someone who converted to another religion – an apostate, as you said. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/92 "2013-11-25T21:37:54Z")
The OP provides the narrowest of anecdotes. Can anybody find a _documented_ instance of an English speaker being offended by the word “Holiday”, one that is not based upon hearsay? After all, we haven’t seen the allegedly offending email and perhaps the OP hasn’t either. There’s a lot of third and fourth hand stuff operating. I’m not saying the story is impossible, but I think the OP would agree with me that it’s unlikely in a way. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be put out by it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/93 "2013-11-25T22:26:56Z")
Guinastasia: > [@](#): > > Sorry, I meant someone who converted to another religion – an apostate, as you said. I think you’re referring to what someone else quoted as the Reform position. All I ever said on the subject was (in response to **Green Bean** ) that Orthodox Jews of all types have the same standard for considering someone to be Jewish. That standard does not exclude people who have converted to another religion (although apostates of that sort might be excluded from certain Jewish rituals). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/94 "2013-11-25T23:09:35Z")
Okay, I see. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/95 "2013-11-26T19:23:45Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > … Anyway, she sent out an e-mail asking for a headcount for the upcoming “Holiday Dinner”. No mention of Christmas was in the note, which should make everyone happy, right? Happy Fucking **HOLIDAYS**. As far as I can tell, this doesn’t point to ANY specific religion, creed, race, sexual orientation, or whatever. It’s as generic as you can get. (Yes, I know the argument that Holiday is the combination of Holy and Day, but does anyone feel that the 4th of July Holiday is tied to a religious ceremony?) It’s just a word used to identify time in which people celebrate something… Anything, that usually includes family and friends and some time off work. The word has lost it’s religious underpinnings. > > But wait! It OFFENDED SOMEONE. That’s right, a Jewish man reported the e-mail and my wife was told she should apologize to the jewish guy because… The term Holiday offended him. WTF? Oh yes, it seems that he wants the word “holiday” removed from any work-related correspondence, and instead, for December at least, the phrase “End of Year Celebration” should be used. > > I’m totally serious. This actually happened. … Next year, send him his very own personal “happy go fvck yourself” message. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/96 "2013-11-26T19:33:58Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Next year, send him his very own personal “happy go fvck yourself” message. Ugh. I would hate to see the decorations for that celebration. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/97 "2013-11-26T21:04:13Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I wonder how your wife’s co-worker is handling Hanukkah and Thanksgiving this year? Is he going to have Thanksgiving dinner as an eight-course meal for a week and a day? > > I hear the greeting for this blended “holiday” is … > \*\* > Gobble tov!\*\* Damn you. Just… damn you. That shit was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/98 "2013-11-27T03:07:48Z")
The real question is whether this holiday is Hanukgiving or Thanksukkah. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/99 "2013-11-27T06:43:28Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I think of myself as a “Non-observant Jew”. My brother once asked me if I was still circumcised. > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Does that mean you’re invisible? > [@andros](#): > > Nah, it means he’s cut, but never looks at it. Maybe he can’t - he doesn’t observe his diet, either. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371/100 "2013-11-27T14:01:17Z")
Is it significant that the title of this thread isn’t **Political Correctness ruining the US (or at least Christmas?)**? Or is it possible that one can simply use “holidays” colloquially to refer to this time of year without having a political/PC agenda? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness-ruining-the-us-or-at-least-the-holidays/674371.md?page=6)