# Political Correctness **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2001, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649 "2001-01-18T06:08:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/41 "2001-01-19T03:28:51Z")
Oh boy, a persecuted Christians thread! Despite what people say, Christians get _way_ more respect than their beliefs deserve. If I say that I believe that aliens abducted Elvis because he knew too much about the Kennedy assassination, people have no problem laughing at me. If I say that a man was born of a virgin, came back from the dead and that I can commune with him by rolling around on the floor and babbling incoherently, I get to be attorney general! Tell me randy: what belief system other than Christianity or Islam says that those who don’t subscribe to it will suffer eternal torture? Do you see why I (and others) dislike Christianity more than just a little bit? You see, that’s the key difference: Christianity, unlike being gay or black, is a belief system, and one founded on remarkably flimsy evidence at that. Now, I think it’s unacceptable to say “Christians are assholes,” but I have no problem mocking Christians for their beliefs, just like I have no problem mocking people who believe in Roswell, or the Loch Ness Monster, etc. Finally, just 'cuz nobody’s done so yet, here’s [Life in our Anti-Christian American](http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/42 "2001-01-19T03:50:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*Randy and Grienspace, Christians run the country. christians are very firmly in charge, so you need not fear persecution. Now in China, Christians have had their churches destroyed and their pastors arrested. THAT’s persecution. I thought so too, but when I find out the Intelligentsia of America during the revolution were primarily deists and materialists I can only assume that the christian country concept of America might be a bit over-rated.\*\* The fact is, the only place I feel Christians are verbally abused is in this particular forum\*\*, and the preponderance of posters are definitely American making me wonder if this is what it is like for a Christian living in your country. It certainly isn’t evident in your national media. You probably don’t know that British Columbia is rife with a bigotry towards East Indians that can rival the bigotry of the 20th century states of the confederacy. You wouldn’t know it from this forum would you. > [@](#): > > _ **goboy continues** _ > I have yet to see blatant anti-Christian bashing not get called on by the mods. I respectfully disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/43 "2001-01-19T04:30:18Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Randy \* \*\* > [@](#): > > “In-your-face Christians”? Have you ever seen a Gay Pride parade? Have you ever seen a Klan Rally? Have you ever seen a Pro-Abortion group lined up outside a clinic to support it, or the Million Man March? Talk about “in your face”.\*\* Love your linkage of causes there. I’ve got to admit that I’ve never seen a pro-abortion rights group “lined up outside a clinic to support it”. This phenomenon must be unique to your area. Everywhere else, it’s the anti-abortion rights people who surround the clinics. \*\* > [@](#): > > I never said Christians were “persecuted”, I said that society as a whole feels okay with openly bashing Christians, and pointed out that with most groups, this is not accepted. > \*\* Oops. Check your previous posting, Randy, in which you suggest that your “dillusions (sic) of persecution” are well-founded. I realize that the image of the Christian under assault and harried by the forces of evil is central to rallying the troops and keeping the faithful unified and all that, but the days that you represented an embattled minority are long, long gone. ---
**Author:** ![Randy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Randy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/44 "2001-01-19T05:52:49Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by super\_head \* This crap about Christians being so horribly persecuted in the USA is exactly that - crap Jackmanni, super\_head brought up the word “persecution”. My use of the word was in reply to HIS statement that Christians thought they were being persecuted. I was saying that I had never went that far with it. My fault. I should’ve mentioned his comment. You must’ve missed it on CNN. After the Clinic in Alabama was bombed by an extremist, Pro-Abortionists were definitely lining the sidewalk in support of a “womans choice”, and not only in Alabama. I didn’t use the Anti-Abortionists as an example because most of them ARE Christians, and I wasn’t denying that some Christians are in-your-face, just saying Christians aren’t the only group. Looking back, yeah, that is quite a linkage of causes, aint it. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/45 "2001-01-19T06:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > if someone pays $5000 a plate to attend a Democratic politcal fundraiser, can I be blamed for assuming they belief in the Democratic party platform? Actually, I could blame you. You see, at a democratic fundraiser all the people are there to buy favors and desirable legislation. The Democrat’s platform has nothing to do with their fundraisers…🙂 > [@](#): > > If the most vocal members of a particular group are contstantly condemning me and my beliefs, am I wrong in assuming that the self-avowed followers of these people feel the same? Are you implying it is valid to judge all blacks because of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? > [@](#): > > A Thank-you is in order to Screwtape, for reinforcing my original observation, that led me to post this thread. I was afraid no one would believe me, but along came Screwtape. Ahh…c’mon… I think Stoidela and I lent a nice helping hand in there. With thanks extended to goboy and pldennison of course:) (no hard feelings there I hope) And I love stuff like this: > [@](#): > > I never said Christians were “persecuted”, Followed in the next post by: > [@](#): > > Oh boy, a persecuted Christians thread! ??? > [@](#): > > You see, that’s the key difference: Christianity, unlike being gay or black, is a belief system, and one founded on remarkably flimsy evidence at that. Now, I think it’s unacceptable to say “Christians are assholes,” but I have no problem mocking Christians for their beliefs, just like I have no problem mocking people who believe in Roswell, or the Loch Ness Monster, etc. So then, you admit that you are an intolerant religous bigot. I can live with that. > [@](#): > > I’ve got to admit that I’ve never seen a pro-abortion rights group “lined up outside a clinic to support it”. This phenomenon must be unique to your area. Everywhere else, it’s the anti-abortion rights people who surround the clinics. I think they call themselves escorts. They walk the women into the clinic and try to sheild them from the pro-life protestors. Plus, there are many, many pro-choice rallys. In fact, they are planning one this weekend to protest Bush. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/46 "2001-01-19T07:17:18Z")
Just a few things that, to me at least, separates criticism of evangelical Christians from criticism of black/gay/disabled/etc people. Gay people do not approach me in the street and tell me to become gay. Black people do not tell me that I am going to hell because I am not black. Disabled people do not tell me that my entire world view is incorrect because I do not see the world from a wheelchair. In fact, none of these groups say anything about my lifestyle. They just let me live. (So long as I respect their right to do so as well - which is fair enough.) Yes there are gay pride parades etc but they are not saying my lifestyle is wrong, just celebrating their own. This is my main problem with evangelical Christians. They presume to tell me that I am wrong about something that is none of their business. ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2001, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/47 "2001-01-19T20:56:27Z")
**MrWhy** I agree with your position on all points. **Randy** > [@](#): > > A Thank-you is in order to Screwtape… Only too happy to oblige. Have you got enough rope there? By the way, I notice you didn’t actually address any of my points. 🙂 For the rest of your tirade, the logical fallacy in which you indulge is called **tu quoque** i.e., “you also.” And no, I’m not doing it. I’m not saying I don’t like them because they didn’t like me first, though I could. I’m not saying I dislike all Christians. In fact, those who actually practice the tenets of Christianity are very fine people. There’s just so few of them, and the rest have earned my distrust and suspicion. These are the people to whom I refer. The smug, self-assured, self-righteous, willfully ignorant, who have the **audacity** to demand tolerance when they will not give it. But why should they? Are they not the chosen? If God says they’re better, who are they to disagree? Don’t claim you don’t know who I’m talking about. If you are not among that number, you need not take anything I say personally. But you do, don’t you? Why do you suppose that is? ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2001, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/48 "2001-01-20T03:44:17Z")
Freedom2 wrote: > [@](#): > > And I love stuff like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > I never said Christians were “persecuted”, > > Followed in the next post by: > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh boy, a persecuted Christians thread! Well, we can argue over semantics to death. I never said that Randy used the word persecuted, only that that was the crux of his OP. If you want, I can change this to “Oh boy, a discriminated-against Christians thread!” or something of the like. > [@](#): > > So then, you admit that you are an intolerant religous bigot. Well, let me posit a hypothetical. You’re watching TV with your buddies, and a commercial comes on for the psychic hotline. Or you see a newspaper story about a recent UFO convention. Or you stumble across a flat-earth website. Tell me you’ve never yukked it up with your friends, or just snickered to yourself thinking about how idiotic such beliefs are. Are you an intolerant bigot for thinking that some beliefs are stupider than others? If you’ve never mocked other people’s absurd beliefs, either privately or publicly, then feel free to cast the first stone. And a final word on Christianity. If I am against gun control, and I say that it would only be just if all gun control supporters were rounded up and shot, I would be condemned for my statement, and rightfully so. But, if I’m a Christian and I say that it is perfectly just for all non-Christians to suffer eternal torture, no one bats an eyelash. ---
**Author:** ![MrWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2001, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/49 "2001-01-22T22:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* > \*\ ***MrWhy** > I agree with your position on all points. > > \*\* Now, if only everyone else would fall in line behind us. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Randy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Randy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/50 "2001-01-23T06:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* > \*\* > > Here goes: > I like in-your-face Christians less than I like other persecuted (puhleeeze!) groups. Why? Because they feel they are better. Intrinsically better, and they are not shy about letting me know about it. Furthermore, they will use their membership among the supposed “elect” to take advantage of the rest of us, and feel no guilt about it. It’s okay, because God likes them better. When we screw up, we pay for it. When they screw up they’re “Not Perfect - Just Forgiven.”\*\* > > Dude, you REALLY don’t like Christians. That’s all just bigotry up there man. I’m not saying a few, or some Christians aren’t like that, but ALL CHRISTIANS?, come on. > > **And the attidude toward learning! C’Mon! Don’t you want to retch when you see some smug yuppie with that TRUTHfish-eating-the-DARWINfish on his soccermommobile? Such a smug, self-assured ignorance of Darwin, and TRUTH, and good manners, coupled with such a pride in this ignorance!** > > You are aware that the Theory of Evolution is, um…a Theory, right? Listen, you can believe everything that your sixth grade teacher taught you if you want, but I’m telling you, there’s lots of holes in that Theory. But, here’s what gets me, the Truthfish is smug, self-assured and prideful, the Darwinfish is not? Do you know that the Jesusfish, or the fish that symbolizes Christianity has been around since the First Century? > **I also know a little history. One of the things that is vewwy, vewwy, scawwy about religion is that it can have the function of dissociating a person from otherwise humanitarian sensibilities, enabling the person to perform acts of horrific atrocity. Examples? The Crusades. The Inquisition.** > > You’re talking about ORGANIZED RELIGION here, some of it being mixed in with Official Government Policy. That’s never good. I’m talking about Christianity. > > \*\*So, as lucie said, when someone displays a membership logo of a group that considers me as a lesser being, don’t be surprised if I don’t like it. \*\* There, you wanted me to address your points. The reason I didn’t earlier is because I could tell by the attitude of your reply, it really wouldn’t matter. Anyhow, since you’ve labeled me in your last reply as smug and arrogant and all that stuff, let me label you. Your proconceived notions of what Christians THINK, are making you a bitter man. Real insight there on my part, eh? We’re not all that bad, really. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/51 "2001-01-23T14:05:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Randy \* > **You are aware that the Theory of Evolution is, um…a Theory, right? Listen, you can believe everything that your sixth grade teacher taught you if you want, but I’m telling you, there’s lots of holes in that Theory.** Really? For those of us who are less informed on the topic, could you detail those holes for us? By the way, what does “theory” mean? What does it mean when referring to something like “the theory of universal gravitation”? ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/52 "2001-01-23T14:45:30Z")
and, (IMHO) they deserve to be. Here’s why I think that. Fundamental religious organizations, and I’m NOT just talking about Christians here, tend to lust after political power, the ability to judge another’s actions as right or wrong, and the physical force to back it up. I’m from the US but working in a Moslem country where the Sharia (sp) is used as the basis for civil law. Although this is a very SAFE country, almost crime free, there are also public beheadings of murderers dopers, or rapists, amputation of limbs for theft, and stonings for (female) adultery. Male adultery is blamed on the female. The (officially promoted and praised) religious bigotry and intolerance of ANY different religion is a source of constant amazement to every Western visitor. Religious police, who prefer the term “Commitee for the suppression of vice and establishment of public morals.” stand around in shopping malls, prodding women in the legs with sticks if they aren’t covered head-to-foot in black drapery. The commitee also has the power of arrest, the ability to drag you off to jail and KEEP you there until you see the error of your ways. Meetings between women and any male not a blood relative is considered strong evidence that some kind of sex has taken place. etc etc. The list goes on. Now, before someone accuses me of Moslem-bashing, that’s not the point. The point is what happens when a religion, any religion, gains political power. I cannot truthfully say that I believe Christian fundamentalist leaders to be more tolerant or intelligent than the Moslem ones, somewhat less so if anything. This in turn leads me to believe that, given the chance, Christian fundamentalists would turn the US into a copy of what I see here. This HAS happened in the Christian world, the Crusades and the inquisition being examples that spring immediately to mind. OK, if you’ve stuck with me so far, we’re at the final bit of this rant. _S_ Christian Fundamentalist leaders in the US pay court to the President and any other political leader they can influence. They also run in their own right. A fundamentalist of ANY sort influencing the government is (for me at least) cause for alarm. I see the inevitable end of that process as being something similar to what I’m living in now. At the end of the day, I bash fundamentalists because I fear them, I fear what they would do if they could only get around that troublesome “separation of church and state” thing. OK, that’s my contribution to the “Fundy Bashing” debate. As an Oh-bye-the-way, I feel much better now. Is that an indication I should have posted this in “The Pit?” Testy. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/53 "2001-01-23T15:00:01Z")
[cuddly friendly mode] Before you take up **pldennison** ’s invitation **randy** do a search for previous threads on this and related matters. There _is_ a perception here that certain types of christians are unduly confident in such matters. You probably don’t want to reinforce that perception. [/cfm] ---
**Author:** ![Screwtape](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Screwtape](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Screwtape)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/54 "2001-01-23T17:02:19Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Randy \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* > Dude, you REALLY don’t like Christians. That’s all just bigotry up there man. I’m not saying a few, or some Christians aren’t like that, but ALL CHRISTIANS?, come on. > > \*\* And where did I say ALL CHRISTIANS? I have pretty emphatically stated that those who practice the true form of Christianity are not the ones that I have a problem with. The ones who are secure in their faith and content to let their God judge me, rather than taking it on themselves. This doesn’t include you, does it? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Randy \* > \*\*You are aware that the Theory of Evolution is, um…a Theory, right? Listen, you can believe everything that your sixth grade teacher taught you if you want, but I’m telling you, there’s lots of holes in that Theory. \*\*You have no idea what you are talking about. Very well. I’ll try once again. A Theory, when used by the scientific community and spelled with a capital “T” denotes a principle which has such a preponderance of evidence supporting it that to deny it would be delusional. Evolution is supported by biology, geology, zoology, taxonomy, palenotology…to name but a few disciplines. You’re aware, I suppose of the Theory of Gravitation? It’s about as reliable as Evolution. > [@](#): > > **You’re talking about ORGANIZED RELIGION here, some of it being mixed in with Official Government Policy. That’s never good. I’m talking about Christianity.** Oh. My mistake. And to think all this time I though Christianity WAS an organized religion. This is going to come as a surprise to the Pope. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/55 "2001-01-23T18:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* > Oh. My mistake. And to think all this time I though Christianity WAS an organized religion. This is going to come as a surprise to the Pope Roman Catholicism is perhaps the most organized religion in the world, but as far as generic religions are concerned, I believe Christianity is the most fractured,hundreds if not thousands of different denominations and many Christians feel no need to participate in public displays of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Randy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Randy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/56 "2001-01-24T05:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > \*\*By the way, what does “theory” mean? \*\* Oh boy. Well…I looked it up in Merriam Websters and heres what it says: **theory** ``` 1. abstract thought 2. the general principles of a subject 3. a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle offered to explain observed facts. 4. HYPOTHESIS, CONJECTURE. (caps Websters, not mine) I know you wanted more, but it seems there's several definitions for the word, none of them being "Absolute Truth" Listen though, if it's coming down to a Scientific debate, I have no problem admitting that many, if not most of you are more educated on the subject than I am. I am intelligent enough to know this; for 150 years Darwins Theory (theory?) has been debated by well informed, educated, intelligent folks, and it will be till Christ returns. It has been hotly debated, and not only by the Christian community. Have all those years of debate been in ``` vain? They could’ve just asked you? ``` Sorry, but my faith tells me differently. If that's arrogance, and worthy of bashing, so be it. Anyway, my topic was Political Correctness. I should've known better than respond to the Evolution comments. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Randy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Randy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/57 "2001-01-24T06:07:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Screwtape \* \*\*Oh. My mistake. And to think all this time I though Christianity WAS an organized religion. This is going to come as a surprise to the Pope. \*\* [/QUOTE] Chrisitianity is a belief, or a way of life. Take what the Bible says, then mix in mans interpretations and laws with it, make a doctrine out of that, then it becomes a religion. For example, 1 John 1:9 says, “if we confess our sins, He (God) is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. That is Christianity. The Roman Catholics say (not exactly this, but for illustration purposes) that if you sin, confess TO A PRIEST, say some Hail Mary’s, then you’re forgiven. That is Religion. Of course that’s MY definition of it all, But if you’re allowed to use your definition of “Theory with a capital T”, then I’m allowed to use mine. ---
**Author:** ![Randy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2acd7d/32.png) [@Randy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/58 "2001-01-24T06:19:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > \*\*and, (IMHO) they deserve to be. Here’s why I think that. > > Fundamental religious organizations, and I’m NOT just talking about Christians here, tend to lust after political power, the ability to judge another’s actions as right or wrong, and the physical force to back it up. > > Christian Fundamentalist leaders in the US pay court to the President and any other political leader they can influence. They also run in their own right. A fundamentalist of ANY sort influencing the government is (for me at least) cause for alarm. I see the inevitable end of that process as being something similar to what I’m living in now. At the end of the day, I bash fundamentalists because I fear them, I fear what they would do if they could only get around that troublesome “separation of church and state” thing. > > Testy. \*\* Testy, do you hate all groups who lobby politically for what they want, or just Christians? Should Christians step aside and not speak up while other groups lobby? I don’t have any statitistics here, but I would guess that MOST Christians do not want to “get around that troublesome separation of church and state thing”. ALL, the Christians that I know, are very happy with that arrangement. If we’re not careful though, the Nations Leaders and Lawmakers might want to join the two someday. That would be trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/59 "2001-01-24T08:22:34Z")
**Randy** : [Evolution is a Fact and a Theory](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html). > [@](#): > > In everyday speech, “theory” often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, “theory” means “a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed”, as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. > –Douglas Futuyma ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649/60 "2001-01-24T11:23:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Randy \* > **Listen though, if it’s coming down to a Scientific debate, I have no problem admitting that many, if not most of you are more educated on the subject than I am. I am intelligent enough to know this; for 150 years Darwins Theory (theory?) has been debated by well informed, educated, intelligent folks, and it will be till Christ returns. It has been hotly debated, and not only by the Christian community. Have all those years of debate been in > vain? They could’ve just asked you?** Gee, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. The fact that a scientific theory is subject to constant and rigorous debate and revision rather than simple acceptance on faith must mean it is full of holes and probably invalid. Oh, can you please explain for us (since it’s so well accepted, it should take mere moments to find an online cite) **exactly** how gravity works, how its effects are transmitted across a distance, and the speed at which it occurs? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/50649.md?page=4)