# political correctness....
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 3, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523 "2001-12-03T00:08:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/1 "2001-12-03T00:08:03Z")
…is a cheap-ass substitute for treating people with respect.
Discuss.
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/2 "2001-12-03T00:13:04Z")
I disagree.
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### Author:  [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/3 "2001-12-03T00:15:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by andros \*
> \*\*I disagree. \*\*
Please: you’re “agreement-challenged.”
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### Author:  [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/4 "2001-12-03T01:14:41Z")
Two way street. A disdain for political correctness is sometimes cited by people who choose to treat others with disrespect.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/5 "2001-12-03T01:19:43Z")
I disagree with the OP (though frankly, I’m not completely sure what it is).
The general problem with political correctness is that it involves extreme hypersensitivity to certain favored groups, and less sensitivity to others. But it is generally well-intentioned.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/6 "2001-12-03T01:27:03Z")
Often times, it’s very condescending…rather than use common courtesy, it’s a quick fix.
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### Author:  [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/7 "2001-12-03T01:50:24Z")
As a programmer, I hate it. It requires me to use intricately longer phrases. It’s like the COBOL for speech and writing. (I like COBOL, especially the way it uses FILLER:)).
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### Author:  [@Demosthenesian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demosthenesian)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/8 "2001-12-03T01:55:03Z")
The problem with political correctness is that whenever somebody acts like a complete jerk in public any attempts to point it out inevitably elicits cries of “politically correct!”
The right uses the term more than the left ever did.
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### Author:  [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/9 "2001-12-03T02:07:05Z")
Perhaps we need to define “common courtesy”.
IMHO, courtesy and the implied respect is vital to any kind of life in the last five hundred years. Run a search on “courtly love” and what it meant in medieval literature, and its implications for the development of our society, and I guarantee you’ll be fascinated rigid for six months’ study.
… but we are no longer in the last five hundred years. I think it could be argued that it’s time for a new structure and attitude. Political correctness is only a beginning, just like the sixties were, but it’ll mean something in a few generations’ time. Respect is growing up, my brothers and sisters, and we are her Godparents. Kinda nice, huh?
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### Author:  [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/10 "2001-12-03T02:41:09Z")
This may be a good place for me to ask a question on political correctness that I’ve been thinking of posing to the board. If this is overmuch of a hijack, **Thea** , lemme know and I’ll take it to another thread.
'Kay? In which of the following situations would y’all say politically correct behavior is exhibited?
[ol]
[li]A black man makes a movie with an exclusively black cast.[/li][li]A white man makes a movie with an exclusively black cast.[/li][li]A black man makes a movie with an exclusively white cast.[/li][li]A black man, after watching a movie, wishes aloud that the movie had been more diverse.[/li][li]A white man, after watching a movie, wishes aloud that the movie had been more diverse.[/li][li]A white reviewer, after watching a movie, writes that he wishes the movie had been more diverse.[/li][li]A black reviewer, after watching a movie, writes that he wishes the movie had been more diverse.[/li][li]In the above six instances, would it matter whether the movie’s cast was predominantly white or predominantly black?[/li][li]A black man remakes a classic movie with a more diverse cast.[/li][li]A white man remakes a classic movie with a more diverse cast.[/li][li]A government program is initiated which provides funding to film-makers who make movies with diverse casts.[/li][li]A private program is initiated which provides funding to film-makers who make movies with diverse casts.[/li][/ol]
In each one of these situations, I can imagine someone on this board deriding the action as “PC.” I want to figure out the common element that makes some of the above politically correct in posters’ eyes.
Personally, I don’t think _any_ of these actions are “politically correct,” if the motivations behind them are genuine. But I’m sure there’s disagreement on that point.
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### Author:  [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/11 "2001-12-03T03:03:37Z")
Good questions Gadarene!
I would consider the following choices to be ‘Politically correct’
2, 5, 6, 10, 11, 12
And in answer to question 8 - Yes.
I’m drunk at the momment, having just come back from a staff party (I’ve had to proof read this thing four damn timex 🙂 ) so I shant explain my reasoning for the following until tomorrow lest I make a total fool of myself. I will however say, yet again, that those were good and interesting questions Gadarene.
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### Author:  [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/12 "2001-12-03T03:08:14Z")
I have my best moments of inspiration while drunk. 🙂
Can someone come up with a definition of “political correctness” so we know what we’re debating? I hear it used like a swear-word by Americans. I suspect my own definition is different to a US definition.
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### Author:  [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/13 "2001-12-03T03:46:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Demosthenesian \*
> The right uses the term more than the left ever did.
I find this observation strange. The term is exclusively (or almost exclusively) used as a perjorative. _Of course_ the right uses it more.
**Gadarene** I would think the “political correctness” in your scenarios would depend on how appropriate the diversity was - if it was forced it would be more PC than if it was natural.
As an example, I once saw the movie _Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves_ described as PC because it featured a black character artificially and ahistorically grafted into a story that did not feature one in the classic version. (I never saw the movie myself - I read this in a review). OTOH, a movie that naturally contained some Black characters in it would not be seen as PC.
In any event, I don’t think you will get a unanimous agreement on what is “PC”. Much like what is a “jerk”. 😉
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### Author:  [@sail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sail)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/14 "2001-12-03T03:55:24Z")
Gadarene, Most of 1-12 are not politically correct. Political correctness is not about what you should do; rather it is about what you cannot do. Thus, it is much easier to understand by looking at what is politically INCORRECT. Consider these examples:
1.(OK)A white man walks down the street thinking about the sky.
2.(OK)A white man shakes a black man’s hand.
3.(OK)A black man refuses to shake a white man’s hand because he is white.
4.(PI) A white man refuses to shake a black man’s hand because he is black.
1 , 2, and 3 are neither PC nor PI, they are considered normal or acceptable behavior by advocates of political correctness. Only 4 is PI. When people complain about “political correctness” sometimes they are complaining about the disparate treatment in situations like 3 vs. 4., They are NOT saying that 4 is OK, but that 3 should also be just as bad. Notice that my explanation itself is politically incorrect by daring to claim that the black man in 3 is not justified.
Other times people complain about political correctnes because the PI behavior SHOULD be OK. Examples:
5.(PI) A white/black man says blacks and whites should compete on equal basis (i.e. test scores), and that neither race has moral superiority.
6.(PI) A black man announces he is in favor of tax cuts.
7.(PI) A black man favors school vouchers for his children.
8.(PI) A black man opposes affirmative action (i.e. racial preferences).
9.(PI) In policy debate about hate crime, a white man points out the statistical fact that blacks murder whites several times as often as vice versa.
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### Author:  [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/15 "2001-12-03T03:57:16Z")
Gadarene-
In regard to your questions, I would have to say that a director, regardless of ethnicity, who cast an actor of a different race or ethnicity than the one predominate in the cast solely for the sake of “diversity” would be guilty of political correctness.
Now…
As many who have been around the board for more than the past few months know, I’m a craps dealer. Right now I’m working in a casino where most of the staff in the dice pit are older guys, many of whom have been in the business since long before there was such a thing as a female craps dealer. These guys call me “honey”, “sweetheart”, “baby”, “doll”: terms that most feminists would consider “demeaning”. But, ya know what? These guys treat me with **respect** , dammit. They accept me as one of “the boys”. I’m part of the crew. We all work and play nice together. Also, sometimes the day shift boss will come up to a game and ask, “Who’s the fourth man on this crew?” (meaning the dealer on break). Do I object to this, think that he should use the word “person” instead of “man”? No. We all know what he means. Many dice pit personnel, especially older floormen and pit bosses, refer to female craps dealers as “girl dealers”. I use the term myself. Once a male friend/collegue objected to the term, said, “I don’t like that. You’re a woman.” I objected to his objecting.
I think we get so hung up on the words we use that we lose sight of what we’re trying to say. It irritates the hell out of me that we pussyfoot around, trying to phrase things so delicately, not out of respect for the dignity of the hearer, but more out of fear that some hypersensitive twit will have a hissy fit, and go to human resources and fill out some paperwork.
In the end, political correctness demeans us all, because it assumes that we are all so psychologically fragile that we can’t stand to hear someone speak the truth in a straightforward manner.
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### Author:  [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/16 "2001-12-03T04:01:24Z")
Actually, **Gadarene** , your post would have been a helluva lot more PC if there’d been at least one woman in it… \
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### Author:  [@sail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sail)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/17 "2001-12-03T04:14:08Z")
Mandelstam, your post would have been more PC if you would have said “womyn” rather than that other word.
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### Author:  [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/18 "2001-12-03T04:25:20Z")
Interesting - I’ve always read “PC” as “plain courtesy.” I see it as a sign of respect, myself.
Esprix
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### Author:  [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/19 "2001-12-03T05:42:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mandelstam \*
> Actually, **Gadarene** , your post would have been a helluva lot more PC if there’d been at least one woman in it… \
You wanted ducks in there, too?? Jeez, you _are_ PC.
😉
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### Author:  [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-correctness/96523/20 "2001-12-03T05:56:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by sail \*
> \*\*Gadarene, Most of 1-12 are not politically correct. Political correctness is not about what you should do; rather it is about what you cannot do. Thus, it is much easier to understand by looking at what is politically INCORRECT. Consider these examples:
>
> 1.(OK)A white man walks down the street thinking about the sky.
> 2.(OK)A white man shakes a black man’s hand.
> 3.(OK)A black man refuses to shake a white man’s hand because he is white.
> 4.(PI) A white man refuses to shake a black man’s hand because he is black.
>
> 1 , 2, and 3 are neither PC nor PI, they are considered normal or acceptable behavior by advocates of political correctness. Only 4 is PI. When people complain about “political correctness” sometimes they are complaining about the disparate treatment in situations like 3 vs. 4., They are NOT saying that 4 is OK, but that 3 should also be just as bad. Notice that my explanation itself is politically incorrect by daring to claim that the black man in 3 is not justified.
>
> \*\*
Absolute nonsense. Refusing to shake anyone’s hand because they are of a different race is racist, extremely offensive, and therefore politically incorrect.
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