political correctness....

Dave, you seriously think a black person refusing to shake a white person’s hand would be considered politically incorrect? That the guy’s leftist PC friends would take much offense at that? If you really believe that then let me try another example:

Consider three people working at a “politically correct” university.

  1. Black Professor tells class all whites are evil and are responsible black crime.
  2. Female professor tells class all males are oppressive to women and are potential rapists.
  3. White Male professor tells class women are mentally inferior to men.

You really think all three would run into job difficulties, not just the #3? You surly cannot deny that people like #1 and #2 are openly employed as professors most woman studies departments, and many can be found in social work, history, political science, and other departments of just about any university.

Izzy: the term “politically correct”, AFAIK, started out as a very real concern and criticism of curriculums (curricula?)at certain American university campuses. It was only later that the term became a pejorative and the right started defending every bit of stereotyping nonsense as “politically incorrect” commentary.

Still, anybody with a more detailed background of the word can feel free to jump in. In any case, it’s useless now.

Political theory is something that can be politically incorrect.

Louis Farrakhan is just as racist and politically incorrect as a neo-Nazi.

You see, this is why I asked for a definition…You seem to say that “political incorrectness” is a one way street, operating in favour of minorities, when I do not think this is true.

That may have been before my time - I don’t recall ever seeing PC used in a positive way.

Anyway, another example occurred to me of what I would consider PC, of the sort touched on by Gadarene. I was once studying the history of math, and the textbook contained sketches of various important mathematicians over the ages. It included several of women. And it struck me that not one of these female mathematicians was of a stature, or had made enough of a contribution to the science, that she would have been included had she been a male. Obviously, the authors of the text were looking to include women, and had to bend the standards to include these.

Now I understand the motivations involved - to counter the impression that women were not capable of mathematics, and give girls/women positive role models. But due to the forced manner of their inclusion and the (slightly) distorted image presented, I would consider this an example of PC. And I believe this reflects a trend in recent history textbooks.

“Politically Incorrect” and “offensive” are not synonymous. In case it is not obvious, “politically correct” is an oxymoron. Ones politics (i.e. opinions) cannot be correct or incorrect. Left wing people in universities and else ware fail to recognize this and punish people who do not hold ‘correct’ opinions about politics. There is currently no similar moment on the right successfully purging leftists from jobs and promotion. Maybe in the McCarthy era there was, but today being openly anti-communist hurts careers in Hollywood. So yes, politically correctness is one-way. That Louis Farrakhan is politically incorrect is because he hats Jews (a protected class) not because he hates white people.

Some recent PC examples reported in the mainstream news:

  1. Arab speaking student hears other Arab students celebrating the 9-11 attack. He confronts them tells them they are wrong and how dare they celebrate the attacks. Did the PC University expel the students for their anti-US celebration? No because they were PC, it was the guy who didn’t agree with the 9-11 attacks who was politically incorrect, and was warned not to repeat his offensive behavior claiming people shouldn’t celebrate that attacks.

  2. A Denver library refused to hang the US flag in a prominent position but at the same time hung from the ceiling anti-male sculptures of certain body parts that only men have. The US flag is offensive you see, but the male body parts in view of children are not.

Yeah, like that two-bit, no-career Clint Eastwood. Or that has-been Arnold Schwartzenegger.

Yes, there is left-wing political correcteness and right-wing PC. For example, it is not politically correct to oppose making the pledge of alegience mandatory in schools.

Furthermore, while the more familiar examples of PC may be “left-wing”, they are not liberal. They are examples of an emerging kind of conservatism–left-wing conservatism. Conservatism is about enforcing established ways of thinking. Once hyper-sensitivity toward minority concerns became established in society (as in “the Establishment”) it became a source of conservative thinking. Right-wingers who support color-blindness over affirmative-action are being liberal.

But don’t ask me to characterize the racial attitudes at Bob Jones University in these terms, 'cause they’re quite simply byond the pale. They’re certainly “PI” without a shred of irony.

Those who decry political correctness identify it differently from those who espouse it. Who would have thought . . .?

PC is a label which is no longer useful. From the right, it is a label applied to all manner of silliness perpetrated by those of differing politics. From the left, it is a plea toward understanding which is often misunderstood (often, ironically, by those making the plea).

IIRC, the terms “politically correct” and “politically incorrect” were in use on the far left at least as early as the late 60’s. I definitely recall hearing a couple of campus lefties at Georgia State using these terms to describe other people’s political views around '69 or '70. The “correct” term was not derogatory and was used to describe people with whom they agreed. “Incorrect” clearly mean disapproval.

However, it didn’t take long for the lefties to run it into the ground. In the early '70’s, a recording of National Lampoon’s musical Lemmings had a parody of a New Left fanatic shouting “Power to the politically correct people,” so people were already making fun of political correctness at least that early.

It wasn’t until the Reagan era that the term became both clearly derogatory and widely known. Conservatives had sometimes used the phrase sarcastically when talking about ideological rigidity on the left, and I remember seeing the term used occasionally in “National Review” and American Spectator" in what was clearly a sarcastic manner. But it was a cover article for “Time” magazine covered the subject of the left’s domination of the nation’s colleges and universities and devoted considerable space to the term which put it on the map. At about this time there had already been quite a bit of media controversy about lefties on campus harassing pretty much everybody who didn’t share their veiws. That was when use of the terms PC and PI became widespread even among people who don’t ordinarily pay much attention to politics. Today these terms have been so often used and misused that they’ve lost much of their power to intimidate.

**sail **:*"1. Black Professor tells class all whites are evil and are responsible black crime.
2. Female professor tells class all males are oppressive to women and are potential rapists. …

You surly cannot deny that people like #1 and #2 are openly employed as professors most woman studies departments, and many can be found in social work, history, political science, and other departments of just about any university."*

sail, I deny it. In fact I double deny it. In fact, I challenge you to find me an example of one. Go ahead. Surf the web. Find me just one example of either of the above in any woman studies department or what have you. Go ahead.

Remember Professor Blackman has to be saying that all whites are “evil” and responsible for black crime.

And Professor Feminist has to be saying that all males are “oppressive to women.”

(Of course, technically speaking, given the typical legal definition of rape, any person with a penis is in fact a potential rapist so there you might just be making an abstract generalization about reality rather than a silly
and utterly unfounded allegation about the faculty of “most” universities.

Oh, pretty please, just find me one of these typical professorial ideologues…

Lonesome, IIRC the term “PC” did originate in the Left, but, the term was critical: that is, it was meant to connote excessive positions in the left.

Personally, on the whole, I’m with both Demos and Esprix. On the one hand, I think the term has been emptied of meaning, though it retains regrettable ability to undermine otherwise credible criticisms within our public culture. On the other hand, I think most people these days can judge for themselves about whether being courteous and tolerant of people, and respectful of their differences isn’t just part of being a decent human being.

I don’t buy into this crap for a single second. Cite, please?

LOL. Yeah, penises are SOOO offensive. :smiley:

You’re pretty much guessing what these guys’ motivation was, right?

I, personally, think that patriotism and flag-waving is a schoolbook example of ugly us-and-them mentality, no matter what flag or country it is. I, if I’d been running the library, wouldn’t have been touting that flag all over the place. This is NOT because of political correctness. How do you know that they took down the flag because of PC? That’s right, you DON’T.

This seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. In your opinion, does a person have more freedom in the academic world to express negative views about Whites and men as they do about Blacks and women, or are all these groups treated equally in this regard?

Mandelstam:

As to your first challenge, I commend to you one Dr. Leonard Jeffries of the City University of New York. He is (or until VERY recently, was) the head of that univeristy’s Afro-American Studies Department. I am still working on cites, but a google search on his name churns quite a bit of info. Here’s a quote attributed directly to him:

http://www.daily.umn.edu/daily/gopher-archives/1992/01/30/Jeffries_should_not_be_free_to_teach_hate.txt

Dr. Jeffries is known for his “Ice-people” theory.

Will adjunct professors do? Here’s Clarence Glover, Adjunct Professor of African-American Studies and Director of Minority Affairs at Southern Methodist University. Here’s the link to an article which contains an interview of him (which also contains references to Dr. Jeffries’ “Ice People” theory).

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/othersrv/isar/arcade/afam/academic.htm

Now, before you go all semantic on me, I am not absolutely positive that either has uttered the words “All whites are evil.” I leave it to the discriminating reader (forgive the somewhat unintentional pun) to decide if this matches the spirit of the question, especially since the post you respond to doesn’t say that there ARE professors of that style, only asks the reader to IMAGINE one, then compare him to a white professor who states the mirror of that sentiment. Cop out? You be the judge.

As to women, I commend you to Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon. The latter has distinguished herself by claiming that all sex between men and women is rape. Not quite what you’re looking for (no smoking gun yet), but I hope it will do. I will see if I can spare some time for the research you requested.

Redhawke: I’m familiar with Jeffries and, among other things, I think he’s not a very good historian. I also disagree with the practice of limiting classes to a particular race or sex and I don’t, personally, think that public universities should allow it. Most do not. That said, private clubs and private schools do that sort of thing all the time so there’s no need to single out faculty in higher education and blame them for the practice. But from what I know of Jeffries he isn’t at all about saying that white people are evil, much less that all white people are evil. His message is a more a kind of Afrocentrism which is not the same thing.

“As to women, I commend you to Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon. The latter has distinguished herself by claiming that all sex between men and women is rape.”

Dworkin has not made that claim though that’s a popular misreading of what she argues. Once again, you choose a very controversial figure who, I personally, don’t adore (though I find Dworkin more thought-provoking than I do Jeffries). Dworkin is IIRC married, btw, to a man and has not to my knowledge ever charged her husband with rape ;).

As to McKinnon, another happily married woman, she is quite different from Dworkin and has no place in this thread whatsoever. McKinnon’s main controversiality is to do with her arguments about the harmfulness of pornography, especially pornography involving violence (or the appearance of violence) to women. This is a complicated issue: again, it’s not my bag. But it has nothing to do with hating all men.

“Not quite what you’re looking for (no smoking gun yet), but I hope it will do.”

It will do in the sense that I could have almost set my watch by how long it would take before someone trotted out either Jeffries or Dworkin. :wink: Indeed, these two figures are so frequently invoked to justify outlandish claims that “most” universities contain all kinds of ruthless male-bashers and anti-white hatemongers that one wonders what such declaimers of the university would do if these two quit their jobs, or became Republicans.

“I will see if I can spare some time for the research you requested.”

By all means, Redhawke. You might actually learn that the contemporary US academy is not nearly so deluded as you’ve been led to believe.

Redhawke, I don’t think your example of Leonard Jeffries actually counters the objections that were made to sail’s original claims. Remember, sail hypothesized a black professor claiming that “all whites are evil” and a feminist one claiming that “all men are evil” and expressed incredulity that they would run into job difficulties on account of their views. Well, the very article about Jeffries that you linked to is all about the job difficulties that Jeffries has run into on account of his views! While I agree that there is often more tolerance for criticism of white males than for criticism of minorities and women, I don’t think you or sail has a snowball’s chance in hell of being able to substantiate that racism or sexism on the part of blacks or women (respectively) is generally considered acceptable.

IzzyR: *In your opinion, does a person have more freedom in the academic world to express negative views about Whites and men as they do about Blacks and women, or are all these groups treated equally in this regard? *

I think you have to draw a finer distinction in terms of what you’re asking about. I’ve spent many years in the academic world, specifically in institutions on the left end of the political spectrum, and I have never seen any more acceptance for criticism of whites or males on the grounds of race or sex than for criticism of blacks or women. How is that reconcilable with the statement at the end of my first paragraph? Read on.

Namely, in all my experience, anybody who denigrates whites or men as intrinsically inferior or evil is just as likely to get called on their bigotry as someone who denigrates blacks or women in that way.

There is, however, more criticism of white males on the grounds of cultural inequalities than there is of blacks or females. That is, it’s one of the hot intellectual trends these days to examine ways in which society’s deck has been and still is stacked in favor of white males, as a legacy of the days when Western societies were frankly racially and sexually anti-egalitarian.

This seems to have originated as a reaction against persistent biases that portrayed Western societies and cultures as primarily objective, benevolent, just, and admirable. Finally some folks succeeded in pointing out that the emperor was a little less well-dressed than he thought he was, and subsequently an anti-oppression feeding frenzy commenced. These days, every aspect of Western culture is being turned inside-out by academics to examine it for the influence of sexism and racism. While I think it’s in general a very good thing to do this sort of historical and cultural self-questioning, I think that a good deal of the research on this topic is crap. (To be fair, there aren’t many academic fields, or fields in any line of work for that matter, where there isn’t a good deal of research that’s crap.) After all, what’s the point of doing, say, a study of colonial science education policy in 1920’s Orissa only to conclude that—(gasp!)—the policy was influenced by racial prejudices? Wow, no fooling? :rolleyes: I could have guessed that for myself, and I don’t even read Oriya.

So yes, there’s a lot of heated criticism of the ways white males have had unfair advantages in our society and have used them to dominate and oppress others. And that sort of criticism often does get so indiscriminate and heavy-handed that it comes across as mere “white male bashing”, which is not a good thing. However, it’s not the same thing as actual racist or sexist bigotry against whites or males, i.e., a belief that they’re intrinsically evil or inferior. Saying that the “liberal academy” in general condones that sort of bigotry would be, from all that I have seen or read of it, a lie.

A lot of people only use political correctness to refer to language. (i.e “African-American” instead of “black”, “Latino” instead of Hispanic"). But it really gets down to trying to enforce a certain way of thinking among either the left or the right.

A bunch of good and amusing examples can be found here. of course, this mainly lampoons the lefties, but the right isn’t spared.

http://www.ora.com/people/staff/sierra/flum/index.htm

Okay:

http://www.dynamist.com/scene/oct15.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/561805/posts?page=1
http://www.dailyaztec.com/Archive/Fall-2001/10-17-01/city/city01.html

It happened.

Ignoring the whole ‘penises’ issue, which I think is a red herring, the WTC/Pentagon attacks were not a military strike intended to destroy offensive hardware and potential combatants. They were an attack on the American flag. It was the biggest flag burning ceremony in history. It was saying that the American, Western, Christian, democratic, capitalist ideals are being destroyed because they are evil.

At a time like that, to fly the flag can in no way be construed as being oppressive. But, at a time like that, to specificaly and deliberately not allow it to be flown can only be interpreted as being in agreement with those beliefs.

And that’s political correctness.

Kimstu,

Excellent post - points all well taken. I do wish to comment on your final sentences

Even if one grants that the ““liberal academy” in general” does not condone that sort of bigotry (and I have not made the claim that they do) it may still be true that they are not quite as vociferous in opposition to it. (This may itself be because of the perception of white males as non-victims, in contrast to the other groups.)

In any event, let me just ask you to consider the following two scenarios, which would seem to be analogous:

A) Feminist professor of psychology teaches that most men are inherently violent and obsessed with dominance, with some exceptions.

B) “Masculist” professor of psychology teaches that most women are hyperemotional and irrational, with some exceptions.

Who will provoke a more hostile reaction?

Again, I don’t deny that much of the criticism of white males is about cultural inequalities, as you point out. But I’m wondering about cases where that is not the issue - what has been your impression in such instances?