# Political fallout of transgender bathroom issue **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 14, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775 "2016-05-14T18:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/221 "2016-05-17T21:46:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And for **Fotheringay-Phipps** , I suggest you read the cite I posted in #180. You might gain a little insight into what it’s like to be trans. Pay closer attention to what I wrote. It had nothing to do with “what it’s like to be trans”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/222 "2016-05-17T21:48:36Z")
OK, look at it this way: Why just bathrooms? Does it bother you when your daughter is in a classroom with a man with a functional penis? Or an office? How about a supply closet? Why or why not? Should all of those places be genital-segregated, too? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/223 "2016-05-17T21:48:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Pay closer attention to what I wrote. It had nothing to do with “what it’s like to be trans”. Just read it. You might learn something. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/224 "2016-05-17T21:53:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Just read it. You might learn something. I read it. Didn’t learn anything. (I’ve read quite a lot along those lines already.) You might want to try thinking more about things you read, instead of just glibly assuming that anyone raising a different perspective on an issue is just completely ignorant of the most basic aspects of the issue, that you can solve with links to standard articles. Might be worthwhile for you. But possibly not. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/225 "2016-05-17T22:02:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Then why does the trans-rights crowd never ever respond to the repeated point about locker rooms? They only want to talk about bathrooms that have private stalls. What about locker rooms and group showers with no privacy curtains? Ok, I’ll respond. What is your question? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/226 "2016-05-17T22:06:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I will ignore your snark and answer with sincerity. One of my best friends in college had a father who declared himself to have become a woman and thereafter was referred to by my friend as his “parent”. I only met his parent a couple of times as he lived a ways away. > > And then just the other day, a 13 year old relative declared on social media that she, er, he was a trans boy with a new name, after having weeks earlier cut her hair short and saying she was bisexual. I will be curious to see what s/he has settled on five or ten years hence. You seriously think that because you watched and enjoyed a fictional show with transgendered characters that you can’t be transphobic. That idea is asinine. Like, monumentally bad. Do you not see the parallels between your statement and ‘I’m not racist, I have black friends!’? ‘I’m not homophobic, I have gay friends!’. ‘Gay people aren’t really gay, they have psychological/psychiatric problems!’ What you’re doing is horrifyingly dismissimisive. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/227 "2016-05-17T22:09:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I read it. Didn’t learn anything. (I’ve read quite a lot along those lines already.) > > You might want to try thinking more about things you read, instead of just glibly assuming that anyone raising a different perspective on an issue is just completely ignorant of the most basic aspects of the issue, that you can solve with links to standard articles. Might be worthwhile for you. But possibly not. And a less condescending attitude might be worthwhile for you. But possibly not. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/228 "2016-05-17T22:11:34Z")
**Yogsothoth** : Should chicks with dicks be allowed in the women’s locker room? > [@Chronos](#): > > OK, look at it this way: Why just bathrooms? Does it bother you when your daughter is in a classroom with a man with a functional penis? Or an office? How about a supply closet? Why or why not? Should all of those places be genital-segregated, too? In order: They are unsupervised places girls take their pants off. No. Depends. Yes. Because it’s unsupervised. My daughters do not need to enter any of those places periodically without witnesses in order to relieve themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/229 "2016-05-17T22:13:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And a less condescending attitude might be worthwhile for you. Try it yourself first and let me know how it works for you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/230 "2016-05-17T22:18:37Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > **Una** , thanks for the cookie cutter response, but if you paid the slightest attention to my comments you would have noted that I stood up before hundreds of people and TV cameras to argue for gay rights. So even if you didn’t know I am an atheist, that should have clued you into my not being so much into “praying the gay away”. My comment (also in this thread) speaking up for Medicaid expansion, should have clued you in to the fact that I I’m not a Fox News conservative. In fact, I am a strongly pro-Obama Democrat, albeit one who disagrees with him on this issue. > > As for your litany of unfortunate attempts at treatment that were attempted in the 1960s, a lot of that medieval shit was used to battle depression and other psychiatric problems back then as well. Does that mean they should have stopped looking for new and better treatments? For that matter, if something was unable to be cured in the 1960s, why does that mean it can never be cured, regardless of what type of affliction it is? Should we have stopped looking for treatments for cancer at that time? What’s the harm done to society by accepting transgendered folk undergoing treatment are as they claim? I think there is a bit of a mix up in the brain wiring or development but it doesn’t seem that those who are sincere with this state of mind are causing any real issues. Now about changing law, I still think federal overreach is bad. But since it’s for a “noble” cause people don’t seem to mind. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/231 "2016-05-17T22:21:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, look at it this way: Why just bathrooms? Does it bother you when your daughter is in a classroom with a man with a functional penis? Or an office? How about a supply closet? Why or why not? Should all of those places be genital-segregated, too? What about a communal shower with no curtains? That bothers me thinking of my or daughter in a situation like that. Men are more sexually aggressive and violent than women. Stronger too. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/232 "2016-05-17T22:27:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > What’s the harm done to society by accepting transgendered folk undergoing treatment are as they claim? I think there is a bit of a mix up in the brain wiring or development but it doesn’t seem that those who are sincere with this state of mind are causing any real issues. Now about changing law, I still think federal overreach is bad. But since it’s for a “noble” cause people don’t seem to mind. I don’t think we disagree much. I said right off the top that I am willing to use some of these terms to be polite and so on. But when they push past a certain point and insist that I fully acknowledge that someone with a functioning cock and balls hanging between their legs is a girl or woman and entitled to all of the attendant perqs (such as they are) then I can’t go along with it any more. Just like I would humor my grandmother with Alzheimer’s up to a certain point, but not to the point where she was going to drive me and my sister somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/233 "2016-05-17T22:33:56Z")
I don’t hang out in women’s shower rooms so don’t have a lot of experience but it’s been my understanding women’s shower rooms almost always have individual shower stalls unlike the men’s showers that have been open. In the men’s showers, open rooms are being phased out at gyms and such, I wouldn’t expect a new facility to be open. In any case open shower rooms are something transgendered people actively avoid, so demanding answers for this situation is demanding answers for a problem that doesn’t exist. If you can present an actual incident maybe we could think about how the conflict should be resolved. Transgendered people are the ones most likely to be victimized. This whole debate is trying really had to flip that fact on it’s head and make transgendered people out to be perverts looking to victimize others and nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t think the Democrats are going to be the ones suffering the political fall out here. The Republicans have been getting their asses kicked in the culture war, in the courts and in public opinion. Jumping from their losses on gay marriage straight to concerns about transgendered people is just making them look like bullies hoping to find new victims. Republican claims that they are the real victims here only resonate with the furthest right among them. They have cried wolf too many times for anyone to care. They can try to use it as a wedge issue but they aren’t forcing a big enough portion of people to the polls and may force more moderate people to the other side. The far right base isn’t big enough to win elections on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/234 "2016-05-17T22:44:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > But when they push past a certain point and insist that I fully acknowledge that someone with a functioning cock and balls hanging between their legs is a girl or woman and entitled to all of the attendant perqs (such as they are) then I can’t go along with it any more. Just like I would humor my grandmother with Alzheimer’s up to a certain point, but not to the point where she was going to drive me and my sister somewhere. So to you a transgender person is equivalent to a senior citizen with Alzheimer’s? Wow… ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/235 "2016-05-17T22:51:14Z")
I loved, and did not fear, my grandmother. It is not an attack or insult. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/236 "2016-05-17T22:51:37Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > I don’t hang out in women’s shower rooms so don’t have a lot of experience but it’s been my understanding women’s shower rooms almost always have individual shower stalls unlike the men’s showers that have been open. > > In the men’s showers, open rooms are being phased out at gyms and such, I wouldn’t expect a new facility to be open. > > In any case open shower rooms are something transgendered people actively avoid, so demanding answers for this situation is demanding answers for a problem that doesn’t exist. If you can present an actual incident maybe we could think about how the conflict should be resolved. > > Transgendered people are the ones most likely to be victimized. This whole debate is trying really had to flip that fact on it’s head and make transgendered people out to be perverts looking to victimize others and nothing could be further from the truth. > > I don’t think the Democrats are going to be the ones suffering the political fall out here. The Republicans have been getting their asses kicked in the culture war, in the courts and in public opinion. Jumping from their losses on gay marriage straight to concerns about transgendered people is just making them look like bullies hoping to find new victims. > > Republican claims that they are the real victims here only resonate with the furthest right among them. They have cried wolf too many times for anyone to care. They can try to use it as a wedge issue but they aren’t forcing a big enough portion of people to the polls and may force more moderate people to the other side. The far right base isn’t big enough to win elections on their own. Why would someone who truly feels to be a woman and is legally entitled access avoid the showers if communal? Or any other communal nude place? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/237 "2016-05-17T22:53:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why would someone who truly feels to be a woman and is legally entitled access avoid the showers if communal? Or any other communal nude place? She may still have the wrong body parts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/238 "2016-05-17T23:05:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I don’t think we disagree much. I said right off the top that I am willing to use some of these terms to be polite and so on. But when they push past a certain point and insist that I fully acknowledge that someone with a functioning cock and balls hanging between their legs is a girl or woman and entitled to all of the attendant perqs (such as they are) then I can’t go along with it any more. Just like I would humor my grandmother with Alzheimer’s up to a certain point, but not to the point where she was going to drive me and my sister somewhere. Would you seriously expect anyone in this thread to take your opinion about trans people over actual trans people and the vast majority of the mental health community? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/239 "2016-05-17T23:10:48Z")
I’m not expecting anything. I’m just not keeping silent about my opinion. I do expect that in the country more broadly, my opinion is not so vastly outnumbered as it is here. But even if it were, as an atheist of the Sam Harris and Bill Maher type, I’m used to having most people in both parties disagree with me about things. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775/240 "2016-05-17T23:11:34Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Try it yourself first and let me know how it works for you. I tried to explain things as I see them because you yourself said that you weren’t clear on it. Forgive me if that came across as condescension. It wasn’t meant that way, nor did I think that was the tone I was taking. But I’m not going to lose sleep over it. You win. I’m done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-fallout-of-transgender-bathroom-issue/754775.md?page=13)