# Political "gaffes" that were not actually gaffes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 6, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156 "2018-08-06T04:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/61 "2018-08-10T20:20:39Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > . > > I also think a lot of the critical commentary on George W. Bush and the children’s book he was reading at the time of being informed of the 9/11 attacks is also somewhat unfair, and I’m no particular fan of his. As far as I can see, the fuss over Bush on 9/11 was not over the book he was reading, which was perfectly appropriate for the young kids he was visiting, but over the fact that he was so unable to figure out for himself what he should do. Instead he looked like a deer in the headlights. Now I understand that he would not have wanted to cause a panic among small children by saying that terrorists had just killed a bunch of people. But he could easily have told them something along the lines of: “I’m sorry folks, but something important just came up and I have to go back to work. But it’s been a real treat for me to visit you here and I promise I’ll come back and finish the story with you soon.” The fact that he didn’t have the presence of mind to do that is IMHO what people were scandalized about. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/62 "2018-08-10T21:59:09Z")
> [@Mr.Bill](#): > > As far as I can see, the fuss over Bush on 9/11 was not over the book he was reading, which was perfectly appropriate for the young kids he was visiting, but over the fact that he was so unable to figure out for himself what he should do. Instead he looked like a deer in the headlights. > > Now I understand that he would not have wanted to cause a panic among small children by saying that terrorists had just killed a bunch of people. But he could easily have told them something along the lines of: “I’m sorry folks, but something important just came up and I have to go back to work. But it’s been a real treat for me to visit you here and I promise I’ll come back and finish the story with you soon.” > > The fact that he didn’t have the presence of mind to do that is IMHO what people were scandalized about. Yes, you have a point, he certainly didn’t react how we think a president should react but then again his shock and surprise was all too human and understandable. Politicians are only people after all. At the very least you would think the conspiracy theorists would take that on board, if he planned it surely he wouldn’t have been so taken aback by it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/63 "2018-08-10T22:13:35Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > Yes, you have a point, he certainly didn’t react how we think a president should react but then again his shock and surprise was all too human and understandable. Politicians are only people after all. > > At the very least you would think the conspiracy theorists would take that on board, if he planned it surely he wouldn’t have been so taken aback by it? 😉 I agree with you about the conspiracy theorists. If there had been a conspiracy, even if he wasn’t directly in the loop, surely his handlers would have been ready. But then, rational thought is not generally one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theorists. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/64 "2018-08-10T22:38:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Cite? I know the White House later made that unsubstantiated claim after receiving criticism, but I’m not aware of any evidence to that effect. This has already been covered once in this thread. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > False. > > > [@](#): > > > > Asked at a news conference whether the “Mission Accomplished” banner had been prematurely boastful, the president backed away from it, saying it had been put up by the sailors and airmen of the Lincoln to celebrate their homecoming after toppling Saddam’s regime. > > > > Not long afterwards, the White House had to amend its account. The soldiers hadn’t put up the sign; the White House had done the hoisting. It had also produced the banner — contrary to what senior White House officials had said for months. > > [Archived Time Magazine piece.](https://web.archive.org/web/20070930062452/http://www.time.com/time/columnist/printout/0,8816,536170,00.html) The White House claimed the sailors were responsible. That was shown to be a lie. Then they claimed that the White House printed the banner, but the sailors hung it up. That was shown to be a lie as well. Then the White House claimed that they printed and hung the banner, but only because some anonymous sailors requested that they do so. I guess that this third story hasn’t been shown to be a lie, but I don’t know why anyone would believe the third story after the first two lies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/65 "2018-08-11T14:47:18Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > Yes, you have a point, he certainly didn’t react how we think a president should react but then again his shock and surprise was all too human and understandable. Politicians are only people after all. > > At the very least you would think the conspiracy theorists would take that on board, if he planned it surely he wouldn’t have been so taken aback by it? 😉 “Wait… I thought Operation United American was for _next_ week?” ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/66 "2018-08-11T16:54:58Z")
> [@Mr.Bill](#): > > I agree with you about the conspiracy theorists. If there had been a conspiracy, even if he wasn’t directly in the loop, surely his handlers would have been ready. But then, rational thought is not generally one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theorists. Very true, I think I’ve been on the SD forums for too long because whenever I run into a conspiracy theorist in real life I’m always taken aback that people actually believe this stuff. > [@JohnT](#): > > “Wait… I thought Operation United American was for _next_ week?” heh I actually did a google search to see if ‘Operation United American’ was actually a thing 😉 This reminds me of something I’ve occasionally wondered, how the US President _(or General Secretary of the USSR I suppose)_ would have actually reacted in the event of a nuclear strike on their nations, we like to think they’d coolly and calmly leap into action making the appropriate decisions in a timely manner. However I suspect it would be more like the scenario in the novel _Warday_ by Whitley Streiber where the President suffers a fatal heart-attack under the strain of events. I don’t know how true it is but I have read that during the 1995 ‘Norwegian Rocket Incident’ President Yeltsin had their equivalent of the nuclear briefcase opened and that he is described as sweating and groaning with the pressure of trying to make a decision. Its really an inhumanly difficult thing to ask anyone, to make a decision in a matter of minutes that whichever way you cut it is going to result in the deaths of millions if not billions of people. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/67 "2018-08-14T16:19:27Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This has already been covered once in this thread. > > The White House claimed the sailors were responsible. > > That was shown to be a lie. > > Then they claimed that the White House printed the banner, but the sailors hung it up. > > That was shown to be a lie as well. > > Then the White House claimed that they printed and hung the banner, but only because some anonymous sailors requested that they do so. > > I guess that this third story hasn’t been shown to be a lie, but I don’t know why anyone would believe the third story after the first two lies. Huh, it’s almost like some people are re-writing the history of the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/68 "2018-08-14T16:39:22Z")
> [@Mr.Bill](#): > > I agree with you about the conspiracy theorists. If there had been a conspiracy, even if he wasn’t directly in the loop, surely his handlers would have been ready. But then, rational thought is not generally one of the hallmarks of conspiracy theorists. While I don’t subscribe to a 911 conspiracy theory, I do know that the US knew an attack was imminent. That’s always been the headscratcher to me…if there is a Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “[Bid Laden Determined to Attack In U.S.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US)”, don’t you think that, at some point in the meeting, they’d discuss the actual logistics of any attack? I have always wondered if Bush’s deer in the headlights look was him trying to remember what Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and Rove had all laid out for him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/69 "2018-08-14T18:05:59Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > While I don’t subscribe to a 911 conspiracy theory, I do know that the US knew an attack was imminent. That’s always been the headscratcher to me…if there is a Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “[Bid Laden Determined to Attack In U.S.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US)”, don’t you think that, at some point in the meeting, they’d discuss the actual logistics of any attack? I have always wondered if Bush’s deer in the headlights look was him trying to remember what Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and Rove had all laid out for him. Here’s the point, as was explained to me by a FBI agent investigating the attacks. (I had a little bit to do with those investigations, the FBI delivered many boxes of documents for me to check over to look for Money movement, etc.) The way you’re looking at is is like a jigsaw puzzle. It’s a landscape with a hou,e barn, etc. It’s about 1/3 completed. But you can look at the box and see the picture (i.e. you have hindsight) so of course that piece is a cloud and that one a bush, etc. Now, let’s look at what they had to think about before the attack. Same 1/3 completed. But now take away the box lid. Take out 1/3 of the pieces from your puzzle, and add back a bunch of pieces from other puzzles. Throw in a few totally blank pieces. Now, take a Piece. Is that fuzzy white thing still a cloud? (you can also do this with the Pearl Harbor attack, for example) So yeah with 20/20 hindsight it seems obvious. The method of attack wasnt mentioned and it was completely new. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/70 "2018-08-14T18:18:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So yeah with 20/20 hindsight it seems obvious. The method of attack wasnt mentioned and it was completely new. Well, in a sense. But an attack on the WTC wasn’t unprecedented, and the hijacking of a plane isn’t novel, even if flying it into a building was. But I am more thinking along general lines of what do you do, where do you go. “Mr. President, if such an attack does occur, the first thing you’ll need to do is get to a secure location. If you are in the White House, it’s the situation room. If you are on the road, though, we’ll want to get you onto Air Force 1 and in the air ASAP. So, even if you are in the middle of a speech, if Andrew Card gives word that we are under attack, you should immediately say “An issue has arisen, and I need to go” and get to your limo. Once there, if Dick and I are able, we’ll patch in. Otherwise, plan on our first conference call once you are above 30,000 feet.” It’s sort of like a fire drill - you don’t necessarily need to know what starts the fire, or where it is strongest, to be able to come up with a plan about meeting up a safe distance away. I’m not suggesting anything nefarious. I’m just wondering if any sort of previous discussion was running through Bush’s head when Andrew Card whispered in his ear. ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/71 "2018-08-14T20:28:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now, take a Piece. Is that fuzzy white thing still a cloud? (you can also do this with the Pearl Harbor attack, for example) > > So yeah with 20/20 hindsight it seems obvious. The method of attack wasnt mentioned and it was completely new. From CBS news on July 26, 2001 [from here](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ashcroft-flying-high/) > [@](#): > > In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a “threat assessment” by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term. > [@](#): > > The Justice Department insists that it wasn’t Ashcroft who wanted to fly leased aircraft. That idea, they said, came strictly from Ashcroft’s FBI security detail. The FBI had no further comment. To be fair, Ashcroft flew commercial a few times during that period for personal travel. Other Cabinet members also flew commercial for official business as well, though typically State and Defense fly with added security. And the Pearl Harbor reference doesn’t work either, since the government knew that attack was imminent and attempted to get word to Admiral Kimmel. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/72 "2018-08-14T20:55:50Z")
> [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](#): > > And the Pearl Harbor reference doesn’t work either, since the government knew that attack was imminent and attempted to get word to Admiral Kimmel. Yes, at the very last minute. Most people are talking about weeks before. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/73 "2018-08-14T20:56:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here’s the point, as was explained to me by a FBI agent investigating the attacks. (I had a little bit to do with those investigations, the FBI delivered many boxes of documents for me to check over to look for Money movement, etc.) > > The way you’re looking at is is like a jigsaw puzzle. It’s a landscape with a hou,e barn, etc. It’s about 1/3 completed. But you can look at the box and see the picture (i.e. you have hindsight) so of course that piece is a cloud and that one a bush, etc. > > Now, let’s look at what they had to think about before the attack. Same 1/3 completed. But now take away the box lid. Take out 1/3 of the pieces from your puzzle, and add back a bunch of pieces from other puzzles. Throw in a few totally blank pieces. > > Now, take a Piece. Is that fuzzy white thing still a cloud? (you can also do this with the Pearl Harbor attack, for example) > > So yeah with 20/20 hindsight it seems obvious. The method of attack wasnt mentioned and it was completely new. The method of attack wasn’t new, a similar attack was in Debt of Honor by Tom Clancy, a NYT bestseller back around 1994 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/74 "2018-08-16T12:00:08Z")
Apparently, New York governor Andrew Cuomo questioned the assumption that America is so great, at a fundraiser. Some see it as a mild gaffe, but I don’t — if there’s something that DOES make Americans “great,” it’s our willingness (some of us, anyway) to admit that we AREN’T so great — that this is a work in progress, that we can do better. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/75 "2018-08-16T12:02:32Z")
Yeah, but Democrats have to be careful about such things, in the same way Republicans have to be careful about talking about poor people or race. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/76 "2018-08-16T12:06:32Z")
Sad, but true. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/77 "2018-08-16T12:25:52Z")
Donald Trump won the Presidency by questioning the notion that America was great. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156/78 "2018-08-17T12:23:41Z")
Excellent point, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-gaffes-that-were-not-actually-gaffes/819156.md?page=3)