# Political nobody wins SC Democratic US Senate nomination in strangest political upset of the year. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518 "2010-06-09T07:48:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/81 "2010-06-11T22:25:34Z")
Is anyone advancing that theory? Greene may or may not be a Republican plant, but I think we have to conclude that he was selected by Democratic primary voters for their own reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/82 "2010-06-11T22:26:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, does anyone who is advancing the “Republicans voted for Greene as a coordinated spoiler effort” theory have an explanation for how they mobilized that many people without a single leak? I believe there is an equal chance that the Democrats got gamed hard or that 100,000 South Carolinians of all races (check the 538 info) voted for a retarded black guy they never heard of. Political shenanigans or really stupid people, neither would surprise me. ETA: I’m leaning a little towards stupid people. The state senator is advancing the theory that black people voted for the black guy because slaves were too dumb to know how to spell ‘green’. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/83 "2010-06-11T23:57:46Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Is it too late to lose the Civil War? Might you be the first person to utter this phrase? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/84 "2010-06-12T01:04:30Z")
From a FiveThirtyEight commenter, > [@Martin](#): > > Here is a radical thought from a fellow statistician. Maybe some voters actually preferred Alvin Greene’s political views over Vic Rawl’s. On May 25, [GreenvilleOnline.com](http://GreenvilleOnline.com) did some shockingly unusual journalism, by actually reporting the political views of the candidates. For example, they reported that “Alvin Greene is for wrapping up the wars in the Middle East and using that money for domestic programs, such as job creation, education and Social Security.”, while his primary opponent Vic Rawl is “not happy with the situation in Afghanistan but said he understands it”, whatever that means. Suppose you were a Democratic voter in South Carolina, and [this item](http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20100525/NEWS/305250032/Former-judge-newcomer-challenge-for-Senate) was your information source going into primary day. A vote for Greene doesn’t seem patently ridiculous, does it? ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/85 "2010-06-12T02:46:08Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > From a FiveThirtyEight commenter, > > Suppose you were a Democratic voter in South Carolina, and [this item](http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20100525/NEWS/305250032/Former-judge-newcomer-challenge-for-Senate) was your information source going into primary day. > > A vote for Greene doesn’t seem patently ridiculous, does it? That would make sense if other media outlets around the state did similar stories or if he had scored big just in Greenville. But he scored big all over the state, and let’s face it, not many people outside Greenville are reading Greenville Online. Where I live, I read the local paper and occasionally one of the papers from the state’s other major cities, but only rarely if ever glance at the local papers from the state’s small to mid-sized cities. I suppose one could make the case that those who were interested in the race and finding out more about Alvin Greene somehow stumbled across this one bit of information that was floating around about him before the election, but can that really account for his lopsided victory? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/86 "2010-06-12T02:59:01Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > …can that really account for his lopsided victory? No, not by itself. My theory is that some people voted for Greene and a bunch voted against Rawl. And I’m not sure this was, categorically, a stupid thing for them do–voting for a random unknown as a rejection of an uninspiring actual politician. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/87 "2010-06-12T05:36:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, does anyone who is advancing the “Republicans voted for Greene as a coordinated spoiler effort” theory have an explanation for how they mobilized that many people without a single leak? I don’t think much of anybody is advancing that theory. You have to declare a party in South Carolina and the Republican Gubernatorial Primary was a very heated contest. I highly doubt anybody would forgo a critical contest just to screw with the Democratic side. **Alvin Green** is under felony indictment, is represented by a public defender, and is currently unemployed. People are questioning how he even came up with the $10,400 filing fee, nevertheless WON. For sure something’s seriously strange here. Seriously WAG: How about some hacker blowing the whistle on voting machine security? Kind to think of it, **Anonymous** has been rather quiet lately… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/88 "2010-06-12T11:09:53Z")
> [@OneChance](#): > > I don’t think it’s as simple as how much money he had in the bank. If his entire net worth is $10,000, and he was recently unemployed, then a felony charge is brought against him, would he then be eligible for a public defender since he has no income and very limited assets? All someone needs to do is contact The South Carolina Commission on Indigent Defense and find out how he qualified for a public defender, but I guess it’s more fun to speculate. That was the first place I looked. To qualify for a public defender, he would have had to be “financially unable to hire an attorney.” > [@](#): > > **Q. I am working. Can I still qualify for the Public Defender?** > > A. That depends on your income and your entire financial situation. A number of factors are considered, including but not limited to: the number of people in your household, whether you own any real estate, or have money in the bank etc. All of these factors are weighed by the office that screens applications for the Public Defender. In most cases, this decision can also be appealed to the Court. [Cite](http://www.sccid.sc.gov/indigent-defense-faq.cfm). However, the very next question is: > [@](#): > > **Q. I make too much money for the Public Defender but I cannot afford to hire a private attorney. What can I do?** > > A. If it is determined that you are financially able to hire an attorney but you still want the Public Defender to represent you, then the Public Defender can be appointed to your case. After your case is completed, the court will determine the amount of attorney’s fees that should be paid to the local Public Defender Corporation. Mr. Greene has a public defender, Spencer S. Beckman. Mr. Greene lives with his father and is unemployed (I have not seen whether he is receiving unemployment benefits, but since he was involuntarily released from the service, and not dishonorably discharged, I would bet that he is). But if he had $10,400 in his bank account (to be able to write a personal check for the filing fee), then it seem clear to me that he was financially able to hire an attorney. There are a TON of people needing and applying for public defenders in SC who have zero income and zero savings who are denied simply because there are too many of them and not nearly enough public defenders. In addition, all SC lawyers are assigned pro bono cases by the courts to handle the overflow (I used to practice there), and still the need is great. If he was on the pay-later plan, that could explain his bank account, but I’m pretty sure the courts would look askance at his using that money for something besides his lawyer. Yes, this is a puzzle and I hope it is thoroughly investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/89 "2010-06-12T17:14:17Z")
I know it’s the South and things are different, but I can’t help but still be shocked by the fact that the victim in the obscenity case was quoted in that MJ article calling him “boy.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/90 "2010-06-12T17:32:49Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I know it’s the South and things are different, but I can’t help but still be shocked by the fact that the victim in the obscenity case was quoted in that MJ article calling him “boy.” That’s not necessarily a racial remark, if that’s what you mean. White women call white men “boys,” as well, _especially_ in the construction “he’s a big boy.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/91 "2010-06-12T21:46:38Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > This is truly a weird story. Especially given the $10,000 filing fee for a rather poor person. Will this story die out, or get more exciting before November? The only hypothesis I’ve come up with (and, No, I’m not _really_ serious) is that this derives from some sort of _Back to the Future_ adventure. Alvin Greene III must become President in 2068, his political career hinges on his grandfather’s Senate seat, and some Time Traveller is taking corrective measures. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/92 "2010-06-12T22:57:57Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > That’s not necessarily a racial remark, if that’s what you mean. White women call white men “boys,” as well, _especially_ in the construction “he’s a big boy.” The only time I’ve ever said construction that is in the context of athletics, and even then only college sports, where they’re arguably still boys and not men. In that context in the South, the usage of “boy” was almost certainly racially charged. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/93 "2010-06-12T23:18:43Z")
There are two things that make Greene’s run fishy: 1. $10,000 is a LOT of money for someone in his financial situation. 2. He doesn’t seem to have a particularly strong reason for running. I can see someone with a lot more money spending $10K on a lark. “Maybe I’ll get lucky and win! Wouldn’t that be a hoot? And even if I don’t, I can tell stories the rest of my life about the time I ran for Senate!” And I can see someone who’s as broke as Greene scraping together the money for a run if they were really passionate about something. “I’m gonna spend my life savings to run for the Senate because I want to fight for homeless kitties!” If he were a poor crackpot, or a rich doofus, this sudden leap into politics would make sense. But why would someone who doesn’t seem to care very much about running spend that much money to get on the ballot? It doesn’t make any sense. I’m very curious to learn where the money for his filing fee came from. Maybe everything about his run is legit, but there’s enough weirdness here that it deserves to be thoroughly investigated. After all, there’s a tiny possibility that something bizarre could happen involving DeMint and Greene could actually win … . ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/94 "2010-06-13T00:19:43Z")
Well, he is saying this was his money from his time in the Army. I tend to agree with **Biggirl** that this is a case of stupid people (or disinterested people) voting. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/95 "2010-06-13T00:50:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I haven’t stopped laughing since I read this. > > BTW how many senators from south carolina have been black felons? Well, the recent mayoral election in Columbia had two. One got disqualified because the felony was too recent and one, the really crazy one, moved to a city council election. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/96 "2010-06-13T14:00:33Z")
Well, according to this story, the guy’s father was pretty active in local Democratic politics back in the day, and may also have had some cash to spare for his son to make a run. Alvin, though, keeps insisting that he saved up the money himself from his days in the Army. [http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act=post&pid=11861006100935349](http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act=post&pid=11861006100935349) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/97 "2010-06-13T14:25:02Z")
The more I see of this guy and the more I see of the average SC politico the more I am thinking he might not be that much worse. At least this guy seems honestly mentally impaired as opposed to just acting that way to pander to the bottom percentile of voters. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/98 "2010-06-13T14:54:46Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Well, according to this story, the guy’s father was pretty active in local Democratic politics back in the day, and may also have had some cash to spare for his son to make a run. Alvin, though, keeps insisting that he saved up the money himself from his days in the Army. > > [http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act=post&pid=11861006100935349](http://www.free-times.com/index.php?cat=1992209084141467&act=post&pid=11861006100935349) It makes sense now. The father just wanted the son out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/99 "2010-06-13T16:13:26Z")
This is why I don’t like open primary voting. GOP voters, who new that DeMint was a lock could have asked for Dem ballots to hijack the primary. I’m not saying that this happened, but it could have very easily. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/100 "2010-06-13T16:19:37Z")
Watching those clips just makes me feel bad for the guy. He has no business in this race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518.md?page=6)