# Political nobody wins SC Democratic US Senate nomination in strangest political upset of the year. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 9, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518 "2010-06-09T07:48:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/121 "2010-06-14T22:52:57Z")
The guy went from being Air Force intelligence to Army supply… not looking good for his intelligence level. Then he was forcably “honorably” discharged from the Army. Yeah, he’s a real keeper. My gut feel is that someone is protesting the voting machines - either the machines themselves or the process of machines and no voter trails, etc. I think he is a dupe for someone who is milking this for a while before the other shoe drops. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/122 "2010-06-15T17:49:51Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Still, the man is retarded. And the retarded should not be allowed in public office (George W. Bush and Dan Quayle no exceptions.) Oh? Is that in the constitution? Is there a mental acuity requirement for holding a national office? Nope. If there were, there should also be tests given to each voter prior to being allowed to cast a ballot. Maybe the candidates names shouldn’t even be on the ballot, only their platform. This result just proves even more that the electorate is stupid, and should not have a vote. Name recognition is the reason there are so many incumbents, people are too stupid to pay attention to campaigns, platforms, ideas… They just pull the lever (press the button, punch the chad) for whatever name the recognize most. Any way, strange I didn’t even hear about him, since I’m in the same town as he is. In any event, I’d actually love to see him win, and end up on some interesting committee in DC. Might shake things up a bit, and you can’t lower the collective IQ of the Federal Government no matter what you do to them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/123 "2010-06-15T17:59:45Z")
There’s still no real evidence for electoral shenanigans. Right now the best evidence is that most people didn’t know who Rawl was, some didn’t like him, and the rest just didn’t give a crap and wound up voting for Greene. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/124 "2010-06-15T21:37:59Z")
No evidence ,but it is such an anomaly that it is easy to question it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/125 "2010-06-15T22:07:52Z")
It’s easy to question it, I agree. And I can’t totally rule out something fishy. But since Rawl and others are claiming something dirty went down, at some point they need to provide actual evidence. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/126 "2010-06-15T22:25:01Z")
I suspect a glitch, if anything. Maybe the people who didn’t vote for either candidate had their vote go to Greene. I find it amazing that they have electronic voting without a paper trail. How could anyone with even the tiniest shred of sanity think that this would be a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/127 "2010-06-15T22:34:55Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I suspect a glitch, if anything. Maybe the people who didn’t vote for either candidate had their vote go to Greene. > > I find it amazing that they have electronic voting without a paper trail. How could anyone with even the tiniest shred of sanity think that this would be a good idea? South Carolina, need we say more? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/128 "2010-06-15T22:35:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s easy to question it, I agree. And I can’t totally rule out something fishy. But since Rawl and others are claiming something dirty went down, at some point they need to provide actual evidence. Maybe they can look at the paper trail… ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/129 "2010-06-15T22:45:07Z")
… and we made the Daily Show. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/130 "2010-06-16T03:15:01Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > … and we made the Daily Show. ☹ Indeed. Jon Stewart was on fire last night–one of his best bits in a while. 🆒 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/131 "2010-06-16T14:32:14Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I suspect a glitch, if anything. Maybe the people who didn’t vote for either candidate had their vote go to Greene. > > I find it amazing that they have electronic voting without a paper trail. How could anyone with even the tiniest shred of sanity think that this would be a good idea? Well, that is sort of par for the course. The weirdest thing about the election (in my mind), was that state-wide, all lottery machines were out of service “Due to the Election” from late Monday night, through Wednesday afternoon. Maybe we don’t actually use the ballots at all here, and just let the Pick-3/4/whatever bubblemachine determine the results? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/132 "2010-06-16T16:16:59Z")
[http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0615/vic-rawl-systemic-failures-south-carolina-voting/](http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0615/vic-rawl-systemic-failures-south-carolina-voting/) Not a glitch but lots of them. This article says Greene got more votes than were cast in 25 counties. The paper ballots, absentee, went 68 percent to Rawl. This election reeks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/133 "2010-06-16T16:50:30Z")
I can maybe explain away the absentee discrepancy: People with absentee ballots have a few days to fill them out, and access to resources like the Internet while they do. So when they got to the Senate race and went “Alvin Greene? Who’s that?”, they could go online and find out “Oh, he’s nobody”, and check off Rawl. But people in the voting booth couldn’t do that, so might have voted on other criteria (random selection, “anyone but Rawl”, alphabetical order, guessing race from name, whatever). But more votes than were cast in _25 counties_? That’s completely absurd. Is there any source other than a single blog for that? Because if that actually happened, then I don’t know what South Carolina had last week, but it sure wasn’t an election. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/134 "2010-06-16T18:19:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But more votes than were cast in _25 counties_? That’s completely absurd. Is there any source other than a single blog for that? Because if that actually happened, then I don’t know what South Carolina had last week, but it sure wasn’t an election. The article **gonzo** linked to credits (without a link) Brad’s Blog. I can’t find that statement there. I did find Spartanburg County results [here](http://www.enr-scvotes.org/SC/Spartanburg/16159/27894/en/summary.html). Precinct level results are available as a download from the “Reports” tab. These results apparently do not include absentee ballots. Nothing looks fishy to me. Now as to the trustworthiness of the voting machines, I won’t hazard a guess, but I will chime in on the side of those who are saying that a electronic voting machine without a paper trail isn’t worth the paper it’s not printed on. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/135 "2010-06-16T18:23:48Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Vic Rawl: 'Systemic' failures in South Carolina voting systems - Raw Story](http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0615/vic-rawl-systemic-failures-south-carolina-voting/) Not a glitch but lots of them. This article says Greene got more votes than were cast in 25 counties. No, it doesn’t say that: > [@](#): > > In Spartanburg County, Ludwig said there are 25 precincts which Greene received more votes than were actually cast and 50 other precincts where votes appeared to be missing from the final count. It claims that in ONE county, Spartanburg, there were 25 precincts in which Greene received more votes than were actually cast. But that’s not true: ```auto Greene Greene Rawl Rawl Precinct Regis. E.Day Total E.Day Total Total Voters votes votes votes votes Woodruff Armory Drive Fire Station 1210 15 15 7 7 22 Arcadia Elementary 807 11 11 3 3 14 Rebirth Missionary Baptist 2933 39 39 18 18 57 Arrowood Baptist 485 9 9 3 3 12 Friendship Baptist 3282 24 24 16 16 40 Mt. Sinai Baptist 1904 33 33 22 22 55 Boiling Springs 9th Grade 2764 23 23 18 18 41 Gable Middle School 2830 46 46 30 30 76 Lake Bowen Baptist 3265 25 25 23 23 48 Cooley Springs Baptist 2259 19 19 12 12 31 Landrum High School 2239 15 15 16 16 31 Hendrix Elementary 3218 58 58 26 26 84 Canaan Baptist 1006 20 20 15 15 35 Cannons Elementary 1124 20 20 14 14 34 Cavins Hobbysville 876 7 7 6 6 13 E.P. Todd Elementary 2132 55 55 35 35 90 Cherokee Springs Fire Station 1594 11 11 8 8 19 Chesnee Senior Center 2199 20 20 17 17 37 Clifdale Elementary 836 10 10 14 14 24 Converse Fire Station 1076 14 14 8 8 22 Cowpens Fire Station 1721 16 16 9 9 25 Woodruff Fire Station 1084 8 8 7 7 15 Cross Anchor Fire Station 755 19 19 5 5 24 North Spartanburg Fire Station 2182 26 26 18 18 44 Abner Creek Baptist 971 4 4 7 7 11 Drayton Fire Station 1310 18 18 13 13 31 Grace Baptist 1243 26 26 12 12 38 Cedar Grove Baptist 1411 45 45 27 27 72 Enoree First Baptist 1239 23 23 17 17 40 Fairforest Middle School 2465 34 34 11 11 45 Travelers Rest Baptist 2661 64 64 30 30 94 Glendale Fire Station 1382 17 17 9 9 26 Gramling Methodist 1384 7 7 9 9 16 Hayne Baptist 1282 10 10 11 11 21 Holly Springs Baptist 2273 12 12 12 12 24 Chapman High School 2429 52 52 17 17 69 Landrum United Methodist 2828 23 23 13 13 36 Lyman Town Hall 2744 43 43 19 19 62 Mayo Elementary 1685 7 7 13 13 20 Motlow Creek Baptist 906 13 13 8 8 21 R.D. Anderson Vocational 1470 26 26 10 10 36 Swofford Career Center 2594 23 23 20 20 43 T.W. Edwards Recreation Center 1503 26 26 18 18 44 Pacolet Town Hall 817 20 20 8 8 28 Pauline Glenn Springs Elementary 1011 14 14 7 7 21 Pelham Fire Station 1089 13 13 18 18 31 Poplar Springs Fire Station 2158 25 25 19 19 44 Powell Saxon Una Fire Station 1151 42 42 13 13 55 Reidville Elementary 2609 37 37 17 17 54 Roebuck Elementary 2433 72 72 32 32 104 Mt. Moriah Baptist 1597 62 62 35 35 97 C.C. Woodson Recreation 1441 56 56 30 30 86 Pine Street Elementary 1342 19 19 35 35 54 Trinity Methodist 1666 14 14 31 31 45 Southside Baptist 1318 40 40 27 27 67 Spartanburg High School 2427 34 34 55 55 89 Cornerstone Baptist 1536 47 47 36 36 83 Park Hills Elementary 1171 62 62 33 33 95 Silverhill United Methodist 624 28 28 13 13 41 Woodland Heights Recreation Center 2087 39 39 28 28 67 West Side Baptist 2081 52 52 28 28 80 Beaumont Methodist 659 4 4 6 6 10 Cleveland Elementary 2042 52 52 16 16 68 Ebenezer Baptist 947 41 41 22 22 63 Startex Fire Station 1011 32 32 6 6 38 Una Fire 471 11 11 8 8 19 Victor Mill Methodist 1778 24 24 17 17 41 Mt. Calvary Presbyterian 2370 18 18 17 17 35 Wellford Fire 2473 64 64 29 29 93 West View Elementary 3446 34 34 46 46 80 Croft Baptist 1120 23 23 14 14 37 Whitlock Jr. High 1369 13 13 12 12 25 Bethany Baptist 1328 33 33 6 6 39 Woodruff Town Hall 1917 48 48 22 22 70 Woodruff American Legion 671 23 23 10 10 33 Eastside Baptist 1413 21 21 34 34 55 Mt. Zion Full Gospel Baptist 774 19 19 15 15 34 Jesse Bobo Elementary 1775 82 82 31 31 113 White Stone Methodist 953 16 16 10 10 26 Cudd Memorial 1363 25 25 14 14 39 Oakland Elementary 1977 9 9 7 7 16 Boiling Springs Intermediate 2794 51 51 28 28 79 Carlisle Fosters Grove 1637 9 9 11 11 20 Cowpens Depot Museum 1196 17 17 13 13 30 Beech Springs Intermediate 1697 22 22 18 18 40 Inman Mills Baptist 1958 23 23 11 11 34 Bethany Wesleyan 2074 23 23 16 16 39 Reidville Fire Station 3163 43 43 15 15 58 Roebuck Bethlehem 1363 31 31 21 21 52 Jesse Boyd Elementary 1515 30 30 27 27 57 Anderson Mill Elementary 3777 63 63 33 33 96 Daniel Morgan Technology Center 1261 19 19 31 31 50 Boiling Springs Elementary 2353 18 18 12 12 30 Boiling Springs Jr. High 873 9 9 3 3 12 Chapman Elementary 1938 27 27 12 12 39 Mountain View Baptist 1087 9 9 2 2 11 Boiling Springs High School 1069 11 11 8 8 19 Ben Avon Methodist 1273 19 19 16 16 35 Absentee 0 117 117 81 81 198 Emergency 0 0 0 0 0 0 Failsafe 0 16 16 4 4 20 Provisional 0 0 0 0 0 0 Failsafe Provisional 0 2 2 0 0 2 Totals: 167004 2843 2843 1795 1795 4638 ``` From [http://www.enr-scvotes.org/SC/16117/27900/en/select-county.html](http://www.enr-scvotes.org/SC/16117/27900/en/select-county.html) Follow links to “By county” and download results in Excel format. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/136 "2010-06-16T18:26:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Follow links to “By county” and download results in Excel format. > > Comments? Yes. Ha, ha, beat you because I was too lazy to put the download in my post. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/137 "2010-06-16T18:34:51Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes. > > Ha, ha, beat you because I was too lazy to put the download in my post. 🆒 😃 freakin tabs get me every time… ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/138 "2010-06-16T18:58:57Z")
It took me awhile to find, because The Brad Blog’s layout seems to have been inspired by Angelfire, but here’s Rawls’ campaign manager, as reported in [this Politico story](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38433.html): > [@](#): > > In Lancaster County, Rawl won absentee ballots over Greene by a staggering 84 percent to 16 percent margin; but Greene easily led among Election Day voters by 17 percentage points. > > In Spartanburg County, Ludwig said there are 25 precincts in which Greene received more votes than were actually cast and 50 other precincts where votes appeared to be missing from the final count. > > “In only two of 88 precincts, do the number of votes Greene got plus the number we got equal the total cast,” Ludwig said. > > **Greene also racked up a 75 percent or greater margin in one-seventh of all precincts statewide, a mark that Ludwig notes is even difficult for an incumbent to reach.** :eek: (if true) I don’t see anywhere that he claimed Greene received more votes than were cast in 25 counties, so I think that blog is mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/139 "2010-06-16T19:14:10Z")
[http://www2.counton2.com/cbd/news/state\_regional/state\_regional\_govtpolitics/article/rawl\_files\_protest\_of\_tuesdays\_election\_results/146706/](http://www2.counton2.com/cbd/news/state_regional/state_regional_govtpolitics/article/rawl_files_protest_of_tuesdays_election_results/146706/) Here is 538 story about malfunctioning machines. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518/140 "2010-06-16T19:19:51Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > It took me awhile to find, because The Brad Blog’s layout seems to have been inspired by Angelfire, but here’s Rawls’ campaign manager, as reported in [this Politico story](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38433.html): > > :eek: (if true) > > I don’t see anywhere that he claimed Greene received more votes than were cast in 25 counties, so I think that blog is mistaken. Maybe. But Bradblog has been covering the voter machine irregularities for several years. The SC race was a horrible statistical anomaly. You can not reconcile it with math or defend with logic. It made no sense. The absentee ballots, which can be verified , were hugely in favor of Rawl. Lets face it, something is rotten in that election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-nobody-wins-sc-democratic-us-senate-nomination-in-strangest-political-upset-of-the-year/542518.md?page=8)