# "Political violence is never the answer." Talk to me about this **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962 "2025-09-11T19:02:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/41 "2025-09-12T08:48:08Z")
However! This is about enforcing norms, and the best way to do it. A society which has a norm that says political violence is unconscionable is a better society than one which says its acceptable. The way to create that norm is to be rigid in its defence. It may\* be true that in such and such a time, under such and such conditions, political violence may be defensible or even necessary but if you lead by opening the door to exceptions what people hear is not “political violence is only ever acceptable when…” but “political violence is… acceptable”. After all, you can’t precisely enumerate all the circumstances when it might be necessary and you’ll end up essentially saying that it’s a matter for people’s judgement. Which means that somebody is going to make a determination that you would disagree with. And so you have sold the pass before you even start. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/42 "2025-09-12T13:30:39Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Are there any cases we can think of where political violence was the answer? As in, a country was headed in the wrong direction until so-and-so got shot and then things starting going in the “right” (as in positive, not as in the political leaning) direction again? Do Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceaușescu count? After they were killed both Italy and Yugoslavia (by virtue of breaking up) were set on course to become the modern nations (or multiple nations) we know today. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/43 "2025-09-12T13:38:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Never the answer? Well, a state where political violence is expected and normalized is a worse state than a democracy where there is a relatively strong agreement on the legitimacy of democracy based upon the concept of intrinsic rights. So, in general, perhaps you can find some cases where one needs a revolution but in the USA it would be a serious and dangerous step backwards Yes, this. There are times when violence is acceptable, but those are times when you are not operating under the framework of a functional, civil society. And as bad as things are now, we are still in a functional, civil society. There are people who insist that we aren’t, and haven’t been for a long time; those people are _extremely_ wrong and have no idea what a failed society is actually like, but they’re doing their best to push us all towards finding out. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/44 "2025-09-12T13:40:28Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Do Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceaușescu count? Those were summary trials and executions after they had already been removed from power. The improvements in those countries would have likely taken place even if they were merely imprisoned or exiled. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/45 "2025-09-12T13:54:43Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Are there any cases we can think of where political violence was the answer? As in, a country was headed in the wrong direction until so-and-so got shot and then things starting going in the “right” (as in positive, not as in the political leaning) direction again? Lee Oswald sure set the U.S. on a path towards beneficent change in the 1960s. Then there’s Gavrilo Princip, who in shooting Franz Ferdinand in 1914 brought wonderful benefits to Europe and led the way towards a more just, peaceful 20th century world. We wouldn’t have anarchists in power in various countries if it hadn’t been for their assassinations and bombings of the early 20th century. The toppling of eastern European dictatorships only happened because angry individuals shot leaders. Israel has assured peace and security by assassinating terrorist leaders, who are never replaced. Yay, political violence. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/46 "2025-09-12T14:09:41Z")
Good point. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/47 "2025-09-12T16:26:25Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Do Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceaușescu count? After they were killed both Italy and Yugoslavia (by virtue of breaking up) were set on course to become the modern nations (or multiple nations) we know today. You are aware, I trust, that Ceaușescu was the dictator of Romania, and not Yugoslavia? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/48 "2025-09-12T16:33:46Z")
I agree but the arc of recent history is towards that failed society. Things are only getting worse and our politicians are not trying to stop it…indeed, they seem to be working to accelerate it. Then the argument (as such) is where is the line drawn? Where is the tipping point? More importantly for this thread is do you wait to fight when there is no other choice or fight sooner to stop the collapse? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/49 "2025-09-12T16:34:08Z")
Oops, yes! Tito was the one in Yugoslavia. I get these dictators mixed up! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/50 "2025-09-12T16:35:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Then the argument (as such) is where is the line drawn? Where is the tipping point? More importantly for this thread is do you wait to fight when there is no other choice or fight sooner to stop the collapse? Fighting isn’t going to stop the collapse. When you start fighting, that’s when the collapse happens. You ask when the tipping point is? It’s when we all give up on change within the system and accept taking up arms. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/51 "2025-09-12T16:37:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It’s when we all give up on change within the system and accept taking up arms. Trump and company are abusing the law so badly it is hard to see how we work in the system to make things better. Trump has given the middle-finger to the system and it’s working. He’s 100% getting away with it. He’s got the US Supreme Court letting him do pretty much anything he wants. How do you oppose that? Where are the check-and-balances on Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/52 "2025-09-12T16:39:32Z")
You vote him the fuck out. First you vote his cronies out in the midterms, and then him in 2028. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/53 "2025-09-12T16:45:51Z")
I think what some are suspecting is that the Republicans have the pedal to the floor right now, with the Presidency, a compliant congress, and locked-in Supreme Court, to reshape the way the country works. We see some of what is going on, with the whole gerrymandering battles (TX and CA), commandeering of the military for use in American cities, scrubbing of voter rolls, etc., but there is probably a hell of a lot of other shit happening behind the scenes, that we wont find out about until the time is right (ya know, right before election day 2026). They are doing, and will do, everything they can get away with, legal or not, to maintain their grip on power. If the 2026 mid-term comes to pass and the Democrats retake one or both houses of Congress (as is expected), I will worry a bit less. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/54 "2025-09-12T16:56:07Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Oops, yes! Tito was the one in Yugoslavia. I get these dictators mixed up! Tito once said to Stalin: “Stop sending people to kill me. We have already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don’t stop sending killers, I will send one to Moscow, and I won’t have to send another”. Stalin died under some suspicious circumstances a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/55 "2025-09-12T17:51:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yes, we have seen it work (e.g. Ghandi in India) He was lucky which regime he was dealing with. > **[The Last Article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Article)** > > "The Last Article" (1988), is an alternate history short story by Harry Turtledove. > The story describes a German invasion of British India and the reaction of the Nazi occupation authorities to the nonviolent resistance and pacifism of Mahatma Gandhi and his followers. This story was later reprinted in Turtledove's short-story collection Kaleidoscope in 1990, the variety showcase The Best Military Science Fiction of the Twentieth Century in 2001, and in Turtledove's short-story collection The ... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/56 "2025-09-12T17:57:30Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > He was lucky about the regime he was dealing with. Are you sure? According to Noted Historian Darryl Cooper, the regime he was dealing with were the “Chief Villains of the Second World War”. He couldn’t possibly be lying about that! (/Heavy sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/57 "2025-09-12T18:10:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > According to Noted Historian Darryl Cooper, the regime he was dealing with were the “Chief Villains of the Second World War” And of course historically, Taunton has always been part of MineHead… ‘[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWIyVRNAxCg’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWIyVRNAxCg%E2%80%99) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/58 "2025-09-12T20:08:35Z")
I thought it was a [Far Side cartoon.](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/cowscarlarsoncolor--366902700878195128/) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/59 "2025-09-12T20:12:14Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Suffice to say, it was not created specifically to encourage political violence or uprising against the federal government, which I think should be obvious given the people who voted it into the Bill of Rights. I am always surprised to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Nerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed655f/32.png) [@Ancient\_Nerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Nerd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962/60 "2025-09-12T20:15:36Z")
The killing of Brian Thompson, the CEO of United Health Care reinvigorated the discussion of health care in the United States. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/political-violence-is-never-the-answer-talk-to-me-about-this/1022962.md?page=4)