# Politically correct/native pronunciation of foreign words outside the Anglosphere: does it happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905 "2011-05-31T22:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/21 "2011-06-01T16:43:14Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Why ever would they not? Some places and other things have standardised translations and/or pronunciations of their names. If not, use the native pronunciation. It’s standard procedure. But do they make the same effort as many American newscasters do to over-pronounce, hypercorrect or exoticize the names? I still hear “She-kah-ger” on BBC World Service and “Noo-ey-VAH HORK” on Mexican (not US-based Spanish language) broadcasts. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/22 "2011-06-01T17:05:02Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’ll be a cold day in hell before the French start saying Don Kee-yot-ay instead of Don Quichotte. It was Don Juan (excuse me, Don Joo-un) who ended up in Hell, and down there they’re probably still arguing over the pronunciation of his name. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/23 "2011-06-01T17:25:35Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Do newscasters in Germany, France, Spain, China, or wherever try to pronounce American personal and place names as native Americans do? Spanish-speaking ones do try; Ricky Martin is pronounced Ríki Martin, not Ríki Martín; Hillary Clinton is Jílary Clínton, not Hilária Clínton or Ílari Clínton. Success is easier when the name is one we can hear from natives easily, of course: I’m reasonably sure we’re apt to mangle the name of most Indian politicians beyond any likely recognition. The names which produce worst results, to my ears at least, are those of people or places where the spelling has been changed from one based on Spanish or Portuguese transliteration (that is, from one which we understand instinctively) into one based on English (in the words of Jackie Chan: “I hate English! How do you _say_ this?”). I’ve mentioned before the case of Ceilán, which to my ears and as pronounced by the Indians I’ve met (never met someone from Sri Lanka yet) sounds halfway between Sailán and Seilón - ever since Sri Lanka became the only acceptable spelling, Spanish newscasters pronounce the country’s name as Ésree Lánka :smack: or, worse yet, Es Ree Lanka. I don’t want to name names, but the phonics of Spanish words and pronunciations I see in this thread are full of the wrong stresses and the wrong vowels: seriously guys, wash those ears! ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/24 "2011-06-01T17:32:52Z")
I have known Japanese who absolutely mangle Italian and Spanish words by hypercorrecting them with English pronounciation rules. For example, Japanese has no final -t sound, so an English word like ‘lent’ becomes ‘lento’ in accented Japanese. So I knew this English teacher of Japanese extraction who, upon first encountering the Italian-derived musical direction “molto lento”, took great pains not to make the Japanese rube mistake of tacking ‘-to’ on the end. He proudly pronounced it “molt lent”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/25 "2011-06-01T17:38:05Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > So I knew this English teacher of Japanese extraction who, upon first encountering the Italian-derived musical direction “molto lento”, took great pains not to make the Japanese rube mistake of tacking ‘-to’ on the end. He proudly pronounced it “molt lent”. Or “how to turn Italian into Catalan when you’re Japanese” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/26 "2011-06-01T18:09:03Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > They are not trying to pronounce names with the native accent, they are fitting foreign names into the syllables allowed in Japanese. There is a form of writing called _katakana_ which is used for foreign words. > > For example, California, is written, カリフォルニア, and pronounced kariforunia. I speak some Japanese so I understand exactly what they’re doing, I probably didn’t give that impression from what I typed though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/27 "2011-06-01T18:09:38Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It’ll be a cold day in hell before the French start saying Don Kee-yot-ay instead of Don Quichotte. Actually, for some reason, I tend to say Don Quijote, and it also applies to famous authors (but not to other notable figures, like politicians, etc…) despite not speaking a good Spanish. Regarding the OP, it does happen in the news. Sometimes I think because the journalist knows the local language and is accustomed to it, but generally for no particularly obvious reason. I can’t find an example, but I’ve noticed in the past that when a big event happens in some place not usually mentionned, the usual French name of said place is often replaced by the exotic-sounding local name (probably butchered, even though I wouldn’t know) that sometimes sticks. I remember realizing once only after a long time that a previously unknown town frequently reported about actually was the same I knew under its French name. For contemporary people’s first names, the local name is normally used. For instance, the current king of Spain is Juan Carlos not Jean Charles (with the “J” pronounced more or less the spanish way). It generally doesn’t apply to historical figures : the guy who reigned on the empire where the sun never set was neither Karl V nor Carlos I but Charles Quint. The protector of arts was Laurent de Medicis, not Lorenzo. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/28 "2011-06-01T18:11:11Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I wonder if places other than Berlin, New Hampshire will never be pronounced the way the natives would. (the pronunciation changed during WWII and has never been pronounced like Berlin, Germany ever again) According to wiki [other Berlins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_in_English_with_counterintuitive_pronunciations#B_2) in the US are also intentionally “mispronounced” too. Cairo, Illinois is pronounced “Kay-row” for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/29 "2011-06-01T18:18:09Z")
I find the allegations of “hypercorrectness” a little odd. Those foreign correspondents in Nicaragua were presumably speaking Spanish with the people they were interviewing. You want them to stop and _invent_ an ignorant English pronunciation for some official or group whose name they have primarily heard pronounced by native speakers? Same with the token Latina on a Texas TV channel. She was taught her name by her mother, who was most likely a native speaker. Is it now her responsibility to listen in on lunchroom conversations to learn how lazy Anglos pronounce it? ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/30 "2011-06-01T18:23:46Z")
One thing’s for sure, they don’t affect the local accent when they talk about the daily happenings in my adopted home-town of Brooklyn, NY. The TV networks won’t even hire a woman to do normal office work if she lets the Brooklyn accent slip out in the interview. They’ll think she sounds “uneducated”. Ironically the reporters think themselves highly intelligent to affect the accent of countries where the women are literally uneducated. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/31 "2011-06-01T18:45:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Though the British practice of just saying the word as if the spelling were English is, in my mind, a bit overkill. I’ve seen this baseless accusation on the SDMB before - probably from you. OK, to clarify, it’s not baseless, as we do indeed do this quite a lot, but labelling it as a “British practice” ignores that _every_ nationality does it. For example, I’ve lived in the States enough to know that, off the top of my head, you guys have fought in Eye-raq against Sodom Hussein, and fought at Eye-wo Jima, and don’t like Eye-ran or Freeance, or watch tennis played at Wimpleton, and sometimes like to put Worchester sauce on your food. It’s not just us. We massacre Spanish pronunciations, you massacre French ones, and we all massacre Asian ones. That said, the Spanish and Italian practice of actually _renaming_ e.g. Prince William raises a big 😕 from me. We definitely wouldn’t do that in the UK. We don’t talk about Sylvester Berlusconi, or Joe Green the composer. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/32 "2011-06-01T18:48:39Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’ve seen this baseless accusation on the SDMB before - probably from you. > > OK, to clarify, it’s not baseless, as we do indeed do this quite a lot, but labelling it as a “British practice” ignores that _every_ nationality does it. For example, I’ve lived in the States enough to know that, off the top of my head, you guys have fought in Eye-raq against Sodom Hussein, and fought at Eye-wo Jima, and don’t like Eye-ran or Freeance, or watch tennis played at Wimpleton Eye-raq and Eye-ran, yes. Eye-wo Jimo, no. Wimpleton, no. Freeance? F them - I’ll call their country whatever I damn well please. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/33 "2011-06-01T18:50:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Of course, one advantage of Hebrew is that there’s really only one way to speak a specific word - Hebrew writing is very clear and unequivocal, with no slient letters and only one way to pronounce each vowel or consonent. Huh? W/ diacritical marks only. Otherwise just a shibboleth. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/34 "2011-06-01T18:58:30Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Eye-wo Jimo, no. With my own ears, I have heard “Eye-wo Jima” said by at least one US American while in US America. > [@](#): > > Wimpleton, no. Again, yes, by several people in US America. > [@](#): > > Freeance? F them - I’ll call their country whatever I damn well please. That was my little joke. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/35 "2011-06-01T19:05:20Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’ve seen this baseless accusation on the SDMB before - probably from you. > > OK, to clarify, it’s not baseless, as we do indeed do this quite a lot, but labelling it as a “British practice” ignores that _every_ nationality does it. For example, I’ve lived in the States enough to know that, off the top of my head, you guys have fought in Eye-raq against Sodom Hussein, and fought at Eye-wo Jima, and don’t like Eye-ran or Freeance, or watch tennis played at Wimpleton, and sometimes like to put Worchester sauce on your food. It’s not just us. We massacre Spanish pronunciations, you massacre French ones, and we all massacre Asian ones. Where did you live in the states? Iran and Iraq are the only ones that look like familiar mispronunciations to me. Everyone here knows it’s wustahsheer sauce…You know, like Wustah, Massachusetts. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/36 "2011-06-01T19:12:13Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Where did you live in the states? Iran and Iraq are the only ones that look like familiar mispronunciations to me. Everyone here knows it’s wustahsheer sauce…You know, like Wustah, Massachusetts. Texas, Tennessee and Connecticut. The Worcestershire sauce one happened in Texas. It’s not fair, really, because it’s a stupid spelling, but is to illustrate that **BigT** ’s assertion is nonsensical as it’s universal. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/37 "2011-06-01T19:13:52Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Iran and Iraq are the only ones that look like familiar mispronunciations to me. Eye-ranians, Eye-raqis and Eye-talians. The axis of eye-vil. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/38 "2011-06-01T19:18:25Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Eye-ranians, Eye-raqis and Eye-talians. The axis of eye-vil. That was said by Dubya and not BARRuck Obama (as we say over here). ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/39 "2011-06-01T19:22:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > I find the allegations of “hypercorrectness” a little odd. Those foreign correspondents in Nicaragua were presumably speaking Spanish with the people they were interviewing. You want them to stop and _invent_ an ignorant English pronunciation for some official or group whose name they have primarily heard pronounced by native speakers? Same with the token Latina on a Texas TV channel. She was taught her name by her mother, who was most likely a native speaker. Is it now her responsibility to listen in on lunchroom conversations to learn how lazy Anglos pronounce it? I don’t think anyone is complaining against proper pronunciation, or supporting redneck pronunciations (“eye-tahl-YUN” and the like). It’s exaggerated pronunciation and accent shifting by native English speakers of Anglo descent. Take, for example, Costa Rica. American redneck pronunciation: KOST-ay REE-kay American regular pronunciation: Ko-stuh REE-kuh American sensitive pronunciation: Ko-STAH rrrrrre-KAH What’s lazy about the middle pronunciation? Wen I lived in Las Cruces, New Mexico, the locals, both Anglo and of Mexican descent, generally pronounced the city’s name as “Lahs KROO-sis”. A certain crowd, though, said “Lahs KROO-says” and even “Lahs Kah-rrrro-says” - a few announcers on the public radio stations in town and EEIL paah-so, and the folks you’d see at the natural foods co-op or a gallery opening. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/40 "2011-06-01T21:47:34Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > There was a straight dope article I can’t find now about the American phenomenon of over-exoticizing foreign words, for example “Beijing” is pronounced with a hard J instead of the “hzhing” sound like in “dijon” I learned growing up. The “logic” of this hypercorrection would seem to run something like this: French is a foreign language, and it pronounces j as zh. Chinese is a foreign language too. Ergo, Chinese pronounces j as zh. Spot the fallacy for extra credit. > [@Alessan](#): > > Hebrew writing is very clear and unequivocal, with no slient letters and only one way to pronounce each vowel or consonent. No silent letters? Only one pronunciation for each letter? :dubious: How do you pronounce the letter ה in עלייה? Is the letter ב is pronounced the same in בת and אברהם? Likewise כ in כשר and הלכה, or פ in פסח and שׂרף? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905.md?page=3)