# Politically correct/native pronunciation of foreign words outside the Anglosphere: does it happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905 "2011-05-31T22:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/41 "2011-06-02T02:16:48Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > That was said by Dubya and not BARRuck Obama (as we say over here). Some of you think he’s an Irish explosives expert. You know, O’Bomber. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/42 "2011-06-02T04:29:16Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I’m very curious to know how the capital of Russia - Москва - ended up being spelled in Latin letters as “Moscow”, instead of “Moskva” or “Moskwa” or something like that. Some sounds are difficult to transcribe in a foreign alphabet (see “Peking/Beijing” for example), but in this case it seems like someone messed up real bad. > > [Here](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Ru-Moskva.ogg) is an audio file of what Wikipedia thinks is the proper native pronunciation. I believe it came from French, in which it is called “Moscou”. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/43 "2011-06-02T04:46:53Z")
All this attempt at spelling pronunciation reminds of [the SNL sketch with Jimmy Smits](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/90/90enews.phtml), which must have been fun for whoever wrote that out. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/44 "2011-06-02T05:39:47Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > No silent letters? Only one pronunciation for each letter? :dubious: > How do you pronounce the letter ה in עלייה? > Is the letter ב is pronounced the same in בת and אברהם? > Likewise כ in כשר and הלכה, or פ in פסח and שׂרף? As **Leo Bloom** noted, I meant with diacritical marks. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/45 "2011-06-02T08:11:02Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > With my own ears, I have heard “Eye-wo Jima” said by at least one US American while in US America.Again, yes, by several people in US America.That was my little joke. What is the purpose of your uses of the phrases “US American” and “US America”? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/46 "2011-06-02T09:25:21Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And that is why British pronunciation of Spanish words jars so much with Americans, they’ve got more experience of hearing Spanish words than us so are more likely to have an idea how it “should” sound. I’m fairly positive that there are more Spanish speakers, native Spanish speakers at that, in the USA than the UK. And the UK may be more familiar with the dialects of Spanish spoken in Spain, but certainly not with the dialects spoken here, or Mexico or Central America. (I’ll say South America is a tossup.) > [@](#): > > I can guarantee that just about all the Brits, Americans, Aussies and whatnot on here pronounce Smorgasbord “incorrectly”. So what is the correct pronunciation? > [@samjones](#): > > Eye-raq and Eye-ran, yes. But certainly not by newscasters, with very very few notable exceptions. Proper pronunciation of both nations is a part of the style guide of the networks, for obvious reasons. Like Qatar and Niger, the pronunciation of both of which caused controversy for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/47 "2011-06-02T09:29:06Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > What is the purpose of your uses of the phrases “US American” and “US America”? 'Cause Canada’s in America, too. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/48 "2011-06-02T09:37:59Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > For contemporary people’s first names, the local name is normally used. For instance, the current king of Spain is Juan Carlos not Jean Charles (with the “J” pronounced more or less the spanish way). It generally doesn’t apply to historical figures : the guy who reigned on the empire where the sun never set was neither Karl V nor Carlos I but Charles Quint. The protector of arts was Laurent de Medicis, not Lorenzo. I wonder when the cut-off date for this is. Even for some royal figures from as late as the first part of the 20th century, I’d use the French version of their names. (For example, King Victor Emmanuel of Italy instead of Vittorio Emanuele.) With King George VI and Queen Elizabeth II, I usually pronounce their names the French way; as for their spelling I’m honestly not sure if it’s _roi George VI_ or _roi Georges VI_. Prince William, though, is always William, though usually pronounced the French way (or else _le duc de Cambridge_). I don’t know what it’ll be when he’ll be king, but as far as I know it could very well be _le roi Guillaume V_, assuming he reigns under that name. The question will definitely be raised, since barring some unexpected changes he will become my country’s head of state, so he’ll need an official title in French. > [@samjones](#): > > Eye-ranians, Eye-raqis and Eye-talians. The axis of eye-vil. I’ve heard of this “Eye-talian” thing, which is apparently the old, Middle American pronounciation of Italian, but I’ve never heard anyone actually say this. For those who used to pronounce the word this way, which country are Eye-talians from? Eye-tally? This is not a joke, I’m honestly curious as to how they pronounced the country’s name. > [@rogerbox](#): > > What is the purpose of your uses of the phrases “US American” and “US America”? Americans often don’t like the terms “USian” or “USAian” or “United Statian”, preferring “American”. OTOH, “American” can be a somewhat imprecise term, since it may mean anyone from the American continents. Ditto for “America”, and even moreso. **jjimm** just cut the pear in two; there’s nothing sinister about it. Myself, I just use “American” and “United States”. If I want to talk about anyone from the New World, I specify it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/49 "2011-06-02T11:24:07Z")
In Hebrew, foreign names are kept unchanged, with one interesting exception - the names of Catholic popes are based on their Latin or Hebrew versions. Thus, the current pope is “Benedictus”, and the previous one was “Yochanan Paulus”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/50 "2011-06-02T11:29:33Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I believe it came from French, in which it is called “Moscou”. My understanding is that it’s from German Moskau. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/51 "2011-06-02T12:33:24Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Americans often don’t like the terms “USian” or “USAian” or “United Statian”, preferring “American”. One suspects that Canadians, Brazilians, etc. don’t particularly like being called “Americans” either. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/52 "2011-06-02T12:56:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My understanding is that it’s from German Moskau. And I’ve got a theory that particular one has got to stem from a typo, because there’s no way a foreigner can hear “Moskau” when a Russian says “Москва”. So what I’m thinking is, some medieval scribe tried to write it down as MOSKVA in his CNN report, and sent the letter home without realizing he’d written MOSKAV instead 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/53 "2011-06-02T12:56:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > In Hebrew, foreign names are kept unchanged, with one interesting exception - the names of Catholic popes are based on their Latin or Hebrew versions. Thus, the current pope is “Benedictus”, and the previous one was “Yochanan Paulus”. In my experience Popes are usually named in the local language, when there exists a local language equivalent to their official Latin name. Perhaps Hebrew just doesn’t have any equivalent to some Latin names such as “Benedictus” or “Paulus” or “Pius”. Or does it? > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > One suspects that Canadians, Brazilians, etc. don’t particularly like being called “Americans” either. Is your point that **jjimm** could have just used “Americans”, since citizens of other American countries don’t call themselves that anyway? I don’t disagree, but it’s not like anybody was confused by “US American” either. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/54 "2011-06-02T13:01:37Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And I’ve got a theory that particular one has got to stem from a typo, because there’s no way a foreigner can hear “Moskau” when a Russian says “Москва”. > So what I’m thinking is, some medieval scribe tried to write it down as MOSKVA in his CNN report, and sent the letter home without realizing he’d written MOSKAV instead 🙂 Well, sounds get transposed all the time, especially when you switch from one language to another. Just try getting any anglophone to pronounce the name “Chiasson”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/55 "2011-06-02T13:35:21Z")
I’ve never heard anyone say “Eye-wo Jima” or whatever, it’s always been “Eewo Jeemah”, and I’m from Texas. Granted, Texas is a big state, with lots of folks speaking many different dialects. Many of those folks may be idiots. 😃 I figure, barring an official pronunciation guide (which many, if not most, news networks have), or a probability that folks won’t know who/what you’re talking about, if you know how it’s supposed to be said, go ahead and say it that way. As far as what to call folks from the United States of America, USAian and USian always looked bizarre to me (how do I pronounce that? Yewsayin?). US American also just seems a bit… weird. Like if someone was trying to throw a bunch of un-necessary rolled-rs into the the middle of the word “Guadalajara”😃 I’ve always been a strong proponent of calling folks from the USA “Columbians”, in order to minimize confusion:p. Nobody else on the continent refers to themselves as such, we have several regions in the US called such (including the site of our capital, the District of Columbia), and it’s even the name for one of the avatars of the USA (though she hasn’t been seen much since Uncle Sam got hired. Glass ceiling indeed.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/56 "2011-06-02T13:39:15Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > In my experience Popes are usually named in the local language, when there exists a local language equivalent to their official Latin name. Perhaps Hebrew just doesn’t have any equivalent to some Latin names such as “Benedictus” or “Paulus” or “Pius”. Or does it? You know, you’re right - for obvious historical reasons, there are no Hebrew versions of Latin names. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/57 "2011-06-02T13:53:24Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Is your point that **jjimm** could have just used “Americans”, since citizens of other American countries don’t call themselves that anyway? I don’t disagree, but it’s not like anybody was confused by “US American” either. Under the circumstances the term probably served to distinguish US citizens from Central Americans - some of whom speak English as an official and native language. “American” lacks precision since not all of the States are located on the American continents. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/58 "2011-06-02T15:20:44Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > US American also just seems a bit… weird. The [most famous use of “U.S. American”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww) would tend to make it a disfavoured term. ---
**Author:** ![krunen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@krunen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/krunen)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/59 "2011-06-02T16:30:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > And I’ve got a theory that particular one has got to stem from a typo, because there’s no way a foreigner can hear “Moskau” when a Russian says “Москва”. > So what I’m thinking is, some medieval scribe tried to write it down as MOSKVA in his CNN report, and sent the letter home without realizing he’d written MOSKAV instead 🙂 Russian is an inflected language, so Moscow is pronounced Moskva, Moskvee, Moskvye, Moskvoo, Moskvoy, Moskvoyoo or Moskvye depending on where in a sentence it is. Moscow is not so far off from several of them. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/60 "2011-06-02T17:14:29Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > “American” lacks precision since not all of the States are located on the American continents. When talking about people from a country, “American” is as precise as it gets. The fact that jjim has been here before makes me suspicious of his motives for using “US American” which he knows full well is not something any American would ever call themselves. USAian is another one of those passive aggressive Euro insults that I see online and it’s just childish and obnoxious, and I’m not even proud of being American whatsoever and plan to leave as soon as financially feasible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905.md?page=4)