# Politically correct/native pronunciation of foreign words outside the Anglosphere: does it happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 31, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905 "2011-05-31T22:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/61 "2011-06-02T17:25:18Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Americans often don’t like the terms “USian” or “USAian” or “United Statian”, preferring “American”. OTOH, “American” can be a somewhat imprecise term, since it may mean anyone from the American continents. Does it really? If I say “I am an American”, is there really anybody out there who thinks I might be Canadian or Mexican or Peruvian? Language is not necessarily logical. Just because “America” includes the entire continent doesn’t mean “American” does. The words mean what they mean. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/62 "2011-06-02T17:54:03Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > When talking about people from a country, “American” is as precise as it gets. The fact that jjim has been here before makes me suspicious of his motives for using “US American” which he knows full well is not something any American would ever call themselves. > > USAian is another one of those passive aggressive Euro insults that I see online and it’s just childish and obnoxious, and I’m not even proud of being American whatsoever and plan to leave as soon as financially feasible. I guess… I can’t really say because the moderators would flip out if I said half those things… Different rules for different posters. I took his point with the ih/aye comment to mean simply that he was talking about people from the good old USA - like me, and for the time being you. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/63 "2011-06-02T18:23:44Z")
> [@Fish\_Cheer](#): > > 'Cause Canada’s in America, too. Not according to my variety of English, anyway. The US and Canada are in North America, but America on its own refers to a specific country with its capital in Washington, DC. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/64 "2011-06-02T18:47:25Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Not according to my variety of English, anyway. The US and Canada are in North America, but America on its own refers to a specific country with its capital in Washington, DC. Most of the US - not all ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/65 "2011-06-02T19:05:47Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I’m fairly positive that there are more Spanish speakers, native Spanish speakers at that, in the USA than the UK. And the UK may be more familiar with the dialects of Spanish spoken in Spain, but certainly not with the dialects spoken here, or Mexico or Central America. (I’ll say South America is a tossup.) Um … that was the point I was making. More Spanish speakers and shared border with a Spanish speaking country = more likely to know the “correct pronunciation” and get annoyed with the way Brits say “Jaguar”. The same for Brits and French, with the amount of people learning French at a young age and France begin just a small stretch of water away from Brits. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > So what is the correct pronunciation? Hmm. Kind of more like smer-gors-bord. The Swedish word is written Smörgåsbord, with the ö sounding a bit like “er” and å like “or”, the rest pronounced like in English. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/66 "2011-06-02T19:10:59Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Hmm. Kind of more like smer-gors-bord. The Swedish word is written Smörgåsbord, with the ö sounding a bit like “er” and å like “or”, the rest pronounced like in English. Then maybe they should have just spelled it “smergorsboard” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/67 "2011-06-02T19:29:26Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Hmm. Kind of more like smer-gors-bord. The Swedish word is written Smörgåsbord, with the ö sounding a bit like “er” and å like “or”, the rest pronounced like in English. These are distinctions that most English speakers can’t even hear, not to mention produce. Perhaps it might be the better part of valor to just think of it as “speaking in an American/British accent” rather than “mispronouncing” it. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/68 "2011-06-02T19:58:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > These are distinctions that most English speakers can’t even hear, not to mention produce. Perhaps it might be the better part of valor to just think of it as “speaking in an American/British accent” rather than “mispronouncing” it. I’m not saying they should. To recap, my point is that _as a nation_ people tend to pronounce nearer the “correct” pronunciation things they are more familiar with. For Americans that is often Spanish words. For Brits that is often French words. For lesser known languages - like the Swedish example I gave - both tend to pronounce it “wrong”. (Even then, as a Brit I can tell you that at least we on this side of the pond can easily tell the difference between “smer” and “smor”. The anglicised pronunciation comes from changing the “ö” to an “o” and the “å” to an “a” when writing it, not due to being unfamiliar with the sounds). ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/69 "2011-06-02T19:59:02Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > When talking about people from a country, “American” is as precise as it gets. The fact that jjim has been here before makes me suspicious of his motives for using “US American” which he knows full well is not something any American would ever call themselves. > > USAian is another one of those passive aggressive Euro insults that I see online and it’s just childish and obnoxious, and I’m not even proud of being American whatsoever and plan to leave as soon as financially feasible. Not to speak for **jjimm** , but I think you’re fishing for offense where none is warranted. “USAian” an insult? Really? > [@suranyi](#): > > Does it really? If I say “I am an American”, is there really anybody out there who thinks I might be Canadian or Mexican or Peruvian? I agree with you; I was just trying to explain what **jjimm** ’s thought process might have been. > [@](#): > > Language is not necessarily logical. Just because “America” includes the entire continent doesn’t mean “American” does. The words mean what they mean. And yet according to **Derleth** “America” simply means the US of A. You’re right, language is not necessarily logical. 😉 > [@amanset](#): > > More Spanish speakers and shared border with a Spanish speaking country = more likely to know the “correct pronunciation” and get annoyed with the way Brits say “Jaguar”. But “Jaguar” is an English word, pronounced the English way (in English). Americans and Britons might not pronounce it the same way, but it’s probably not due to any Spanish influence. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/70 "2011-06-02T20:02:48Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > But “Jaguar” is an English word, pronounced the English way (in English). Americans and Britons might not pronounce it the same way, but it’s probably not due to any Spanish influence. Apparently the word comes from Tupi via Portuguese. Anyway, it was a throwaway example. I could have used many other examples, for example just about anything to do with Mexican food. Fajitas, for example, seems to stump half of the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/71 "2011-06-02T20:26:03Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Not to speak for **jjimm** , but I think you’re fishing for offense where none is warranted. “USAian” an insult? Really? All a bit OT, but other Dopers have objected in past to both USAian / USian and/or USAer / USer. This NZer at least never meant anything sinister by them, but since others have objected I shrug and now just call you all “Yanks”. 😛 (Yes, I know… Southerners aren’t Yanks, but the word entered the antipodean lexicon with the US Army and Marine R&R ships in WWII and was applied equally to Americans from North or South of the Mason-Dixon line and remains part of NZ English as a generic word for folks from the USA). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/72 "2011-06-02T20:33:06Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > When talking about people from a country, “American” is as precise as it gets. The fact that jjim has been here before makes me suspicious of his motives for using “US American” which he knows full well is not something any American would ever call themselves. > > USAian is another one of those passive aggressive Euro insults that I see online and it’s just childish and obnoxious, and I’m not even proud of being American whatsoever and plan to leave as soon as financially feasible. Oh goodness me. Passive aggressive? Insult? Don’t be silly. It was a passing reference to that Miss Teen USA 2007 girl who talked about people in “Th’Eye-raq” and referred to people from the USA as “US Americans”. Such as. ETA: [her](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww). ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/73 "2011-06-02T20:35:39Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I don’t think anyone is complaining against proper pronunciation, or supporting redneck pronunciations (“eye-tahl-YUN” and the like). It’s exaggerated pronunciation and accent shifting by native English speakers of Anglo descent. > > Take, for example, Costa Rica. > > American redneck pronunciation: KOST-ay REE-kay > American regular pronunciation: Ko-stuh REE-kuh > American sensitive pronunciation: Ko-STAH rrrrrre-KAH > > What’s lazy about the middle pronunciation? > > Wen I lived in Las Cruces, New Mexico, the locals, both Anglo and of Mexican descent, generally pronounced the city’s name as “Lahs KROO-sis”. A certain crowd, though, said “Lahs KROO-says” and even “Lahs Kah-rrrro-says” - a few announcers on the public radio stations in town and EEIL paah-so, and the folks you’d see at the natural foods co-op or a gallery opening. There is definitely a political slant to this. While it may have died down a bit since then, back when Nicaragua and the Sandinistas were in the new a lot, there was a very strong correlation between how strongly someone (especially TV or radio reporters) accented Spanish-language names and their position on the political spectrum - the stronger the accent, the farther left. \*Neek-au-RRRAAAAGGGGGGUUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHH-wa! \* ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/74 "2011-06-02T20:47:32Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Not to speak for **jjimm** , but I think you’re fishing for offense where none is warranted. “USAian” an insult? Really? Depending on the context yes it can be. Just like “Jap” can either be derogatory or just a shortened version of Japan, I see “USAian” used more often than not in negative contexts. Now, just because something is meant to be mildly insulting doesn’t mean I’m seething with rage. It’s pretty obnoxious to see and my face goes " :rolleyes: " at most. I highly doubt English folk would find “limey” all that offensive because of how lame it is, but that doesn’t mean I’m being polite. > [@jjimm](#): > > Oh goodness me. Passive aggressive? Insult? Don’t be silly. It was a passing reference to that Miss Teen USA 2007 girl who talked about people in “Th’Eye-raq” and referred to people from the USA as “US Americans”. Such as. > > ETA: [her](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww). Okay, I hadn’t seen that video so I didn’t get the reference, but I’ve seen it plenty of other times used with a hefty load of snark here and elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/75 "2011-06-02T21:46:59Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Depending on the context yes it can be. Just like “Jap” can either be derogatory or just a shortened version of Japan, I see “USAian” used more often than not in negative contexts. Same with Euro which, err, you used. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/76 "2011-06-02T21:47:42Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Oh goodness me. Passive aggressive? Insult? I was more offended by rogerbox’s blatant misuse of the term “passive aggressive” than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/77 "2011-06-02T21:51:52Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > I was more offended by rogerbox’s blatant misuse of the term “passive aggressive” than anything else. Well I guess if I had meant to be insulting it would be passive aggressive wouldn’t it? Or at least snide. Snide would work. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/78 "2011-06-02T22:00:33Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Well I guess if I had meant to be insulting it would be passive aggressive wouldn’t it? Or at least snide. Snide would work. It’s like we wanted you to insult us but you didn’t want to so you just did a piss-poor job of insulting us by calling something we don’t really care about. Dude, before you start making fun of Miss “The Iraq’s” intelligence I suggest you point your web browser to [images.google.com](http://images.google.com) and type in Caitlin Upton. You won’t be thinking about her IQ for too long. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/79 "2011-06-02T22:06:51Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Dude, before you start making fun of Miss “The Iraq’s” intelligence I suggest you point your web browser to [images.google.com](http://images.google.com) and type in Caitlin Upton. > > You won’t be thinking about her IQ for too long. Er. Gosh. But she. Maps. Never mind. Bless her chest. I mean heart. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politically-correct-native-pronunciation-of-foreign-words-outside-the-anglosphere-does-it-happen/583905/80 "2011-06-02T22:12:20Z")
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