# Politicians consider adding a 'copper' plan to the affordable care act **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604 "2017-10-23T03:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/21 "2017-10-23T18:51:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I was going to ask what they do when they run out of cheap metals, but I see this has already been covered. But some thinking outside the box may be needed here. Everyone is still focused on comparing plans to actual materials. Even cardboard costs money, you know. I propose the ultimate in consumer choice: the “imaginary plan”. It covers nothing at all, but consumers will be very pleased with the low, low cost. > > I think you have health care confused with cars. What is truly despicable is to limit a human being to only the health care that they can scrape together the money to pay for, and if they can’t, well, it sucks to be them. And if their life depends on it, well, I guess it _really_ sucks to be them. Scarcity is a real son-of-a-bitch. There oughta be a law… ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/22 "2017-10-23T19:00:07Z")
If there is one government handout that I could support, it would be to provide a dog to all statists. This could help them to sate their intense desire to control sentient beings. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/23 "2017-10-23T19:15:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If there is one government handout that I could support, it would be to provide a dog to all statists. This could help them to sate their intense desire to control sentient beings. That’s a nice thought but I think the way to Make America Great Again is to arrange a government handout that would provide each Trump supporter a working brain. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/24 "2017-10-23T19:19:26Z")
The irony is that these plans are a bigger gift to the insurance companies than the subsidies they allege to replace. They place low caps on everything protecting the insurers from high payouts for the serious illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/25 "2017-10-23T19:20:24Z")
Will Farnaby is the reason I would support Serenity Universe colonization plans. Dropping off people like him with little more than a blanket and a shovel and allowing them to live in their own little paradise with zero government, nor the benefits that come with having a government. To be sure, I’d go a little farther. Each colonist gets a Duluth Pack, which they can fill with their own clothing and gear, plus a machete and their choice of Axe, Shovel or Pick. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/26 "2017-10-23T19:24:04Z")
The copper plan covers you if you’re shot by the police, but that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/27 "2017-10-23T19:33:57Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > The copper plan covers you if you’re shot by the police, but that’s it. Nah, it would be bankrupt in a week. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/28 "2017-10-23T19:47:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Why is this pitworthy? Because we spend [2x more](https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/Chart%201%20small_1.png) on health care than any other nation and have less to show for it. And if politicians truly wanted to, they could reform the health care system to make it cost effective. Rather than encouraging people to buy shittier and shittier insurance, reform the health care system to make it cost effective. But they don’t want to step on the toes of the medical device industry, pharma, insurance industry, AMA, hospital industry, etc., all of whom would lose business under genuine reform. So instead of reforming our health care system to make it affordable, just make insurance shittier. [This](https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indus.php?id=H) and [this](https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/indusclient.php?id=F09) is why politicians cannot reform health care; the money flowing from health are providers and insurance companies is crucial for many politicians go get elected, and the last thing that these groups want is transparency or accountability (note the increase in speding peaking in the 2008-2009 timefrane). The real failing of the Affordable Care Act was while it made insurance available to people who couldn’t afford it or be accepted because of pre-existing conditions (and forced people who didn’t believe they had a need for insurance to participate or suffer tax penalties, which was a legitimate point of contention), it did virtually nothing to control health care costs or force providers to be more transparent. (It did force insurers to disclose more of their restrictions and limitations so at least something was gained.) The notion that health care can be treated like a market-driving commodity is based upon the assumption that consumers can make informed and rational decisions about costs versus benefits, but that is given lie when even most health care practitioners don’t know the costs of tests and procedures they are recommending or medications they are prescribing, and the average consumer does not have the technical knowledge to make an independent assessment of benefit beyond the practicioner’s recommendation. Just wait until they get down to the die-cast zinc plan. Buy a plan with all the integrity of a ‘78 Nova door handle! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/29 "2017-10-23T20:37:29Z")
How about a “fuck you” plan? This plan seems really good, but when you get sick, the insurance company goes over your file with a fine toothed comb, and finds out that you failed to declare a mole on your left shoulder, so denies you coverage for your heart attack. “Recision plan” sounded too complicated, so “Fuck You Plan” it is. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/30 "2017-10-23T20:44:40Z")
Will we get to see a single payer system in the US in our lifetimes? Or will it be up to our grandkids? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/31 "2017-10-23T20:45:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How about a “fuck you” plan? This plan seems really good, but when you get sick, the insurance company goes over your file with a fine toothed comb, and finds out that you failed to declare a mole on your left shoulder, so denies you coverage for your heart attack. “Recision plan” sounded too complicated, so “Fuck You Plan” it is. Just declare being born as a pre-existing condition. No need for all that expensive file-combing. The ideal healthcare insurance company would be the CEO, Board of Directors, Sales and Billing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/32 "2017-10-23T21:00:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > That’s a nice thought but I think the way to Make America Great Again is to arrange a government handout that would provide each Trump supporter a working brain. When you say “provide each Trump supporter a working brain,” you’re talking about the free dog, right? Sort of like how we could give Republicans a heart by giving them the actual organ that is part of the cardiopulmonary system. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/33 "2017-10-24T00:30:26Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Will we get to see a single payer system in the US in our lifetimes? Or will it be up to our grandkids? I don’t know. Vermont said they would do it, then backed out. The problem is health care is now so expensive, nobody wants to implement single payer. That is why Vermont backed out, the taxes were too high. That isn’t an attack on single payer, it is just a sad effect of having the most expensive health system on earth. The best time to implement single payer was before health care costs skyrocketed. We were spending 6% of GDP in the 1960s, and only about 9% in the early 80s. So doing it in the 60s or 70s would’ve been best. Now nobody wants to nationalize 18% of the economy. However, currently the government covers roughly 50-60% of medical spending. Plus single payer is cheaper so that’ll bridge the gap. > **[California politics updates: Gov. Brown blasts Trump on climate change, state...](https://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-201705-htmlstory.html#estimated-cost-for-single-payer-healthcare-in-california-reduced-by-billions-in-analysis-sponsored-by-supporters)** > > This is Essential Politics, our daily look at California political and government news. Here's what we're watching right now: Gov. Jerry Brown told the Times Wednesday that a decision by President Trump to withdraw from the Paris Accord on climate... > [@](#): > > A legislative analysis had estimated the cost of the proposed system to be $400 billion annually, but a study released by the nurses Wednesday estimates the yearly cost would be $331 billion as of 2017. > > If the state can obtain waivers in all of the present areas of public health funding, it will provide $225 billion of the cost of a single-payer program. > > “That means that the remaining $106 billion to fund Healthy California will need to be provided by new revenue sources in the state,” the study says. So currently California spends ~$400 billion on health care per year. Under single payer that’ll drop to $331 billion. Of that $331, the state, federal, city and county governments are already paying $225 billion for medicaid, medicare, SCHIP, VA, etc, leaving $106 billion in revenue needed. That works out to what, roughly $4000 on average in taxes on each taxpaying person in California assuming 25 million taxpayers? Obviously it won’t be a flat tax like that, generally single payer proposals involve funding via a mix of payroll taxes and progressive income taxes. But even in deep blue California, they balk at the price tag. However if California gets single payer, their health care system will have more people than Canada or Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/34 "2017-10-24T05:25:12Z")
‘Copper’? Politicians are so uncreative. It goes diamond, yellow diamond, gold-pressed latinum, platinum, gold, rose-gold, mica, tungsten, pollonium. Then everyone gets to feel special. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/35 "2017-10-24T05:29:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t know. Vermont said they would do it, then backed out. > > The problem is health care is now so expensive, nobody wants to implement single payer. That is why Vermont backed out, the taxes were too high. That isn’t an attack on single payer, it is just a sad effect of having the most expensive health system on earth. > > The best time to implement single payer was before health care costs skyrocketed. We were spending 6% of GDP in the 1960s, and only about 9% in the early 80s. So doing it in the 60s or 70s would’ve been best. > > Now nobody wants to nationalize 18% of the economy. > > However, currently the government covers roughly 50-60% of medical spending. Plus single payer is cheaper so that’ll bridge the gap. > > [California politics updates: Gov. Brown blasts Trump on climate change, state lawmakers weigh in on hundreds of bills by week's end](http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-single-payer-health-system-costs-for-1496254510-htmlstory.html) > > So currently California spends ~$400 billion on health care per year. Under single payer that’ll drop to $331 billion. Of that $331, the state, federal, city and county governments are already paying $225 billion for medicaid, medicare, SCHIP, VA, etc, leaving $106 billion in revenue needed. That works out to what, roughly $4000 on average in taxes on each taxpaying person in California assuming 25 million taxpayers? Obviously it won’t be a flat tax like that, generally single payer proposals involve funding via a mix of payroll taxes and progressive income taxes. > > But even in deep blue California, they balk at the price tag. > > However if California gets single payer, their health care system will have more people than Canada or Australia. How is that $70 billion in savings achieved? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/36 "2017-10-24T05:41:40Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Will we get to see a single payer system in the US in our lifetimes? Or will it be up to our grandkids? I ponder this in a thread in IMHO. There’s a surprising number of people who think absolutely no amount of cost increase to the system or decrease in coverage will EVER have ANY effect on government. I am not yet convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/37 "2017-10-24T17:02:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How about a “fuck you” plan? I have a “fuck you” plan. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/38 "2017-10-25T01:08:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Scarcity is a real son-of-a-bitch. Only in this country. In other countries, they had the stones to beat that fucker into submission. In this country, we bend over a table and yell “Thank you sir, may I have another?” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/39 "2017-10-25T01:20:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Only in this country. > > In other countries, they had the stones to beat that fucker into submission. > > In this country, we bend over a table and yell “Thank you sir, may I have another?” Trouble is, in other countries the rich have a harder time saying “Give me that knee surgery pronto, and if you have to kick that old poor loser out of the cardio unit, then I don’t give a fuck! Here’s the cash!” Because the rich getting healthcare while the poor die makes the rich feel better. And that’s The American Way. If you are poor, you deserve it because you are lazy, or genetically inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604/40 "2017-10-25T01:24:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Because the rich getting healthcare while the poor die makes the rich feel better. And that’s The American Way. If you are poor, you deserve it because you are lazy, or genetically inferior. Truly “American exceptionalism” at its finest. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicians-consider-adding-a-copper-plan-to-the-affordable-care-act/799604.md?page=3)