Politicians lying directly about core beliefs and plans

You’re right, that’s the least.

He might not, but it’s certainly all right with me. Not that it matters, just sayin’, is all,

You want to discuss Walker and the right to work laws?

I think the only thing I can say about the OP without retreating to the pit thread about you is that you are not arguing in good faith here. Even for you, this seems likes an intellectually dishonest thread.

Does Donald Trump not exist in the world you live in?

You really believe in his heart that Trump is the evangelical christian candidate?

His teleprompter speech at the black church was so clearly painful for him to deliver that the insincerity practically screamed out. It is obvious that he believes none of what he said, and that he would do zero to change things.

I think the big difference is that democrats are fond of what I call the progressive “if you give a mouse a cookie strategy”. It’s based on the idea that they know that nobody today would support them in their true goals, if those goals were known. Obamacare is a prime example, nobody likes obamacare and in fact I believe it was designed to fail, but it gets them closer to their real goal of universal government healthcare. In fact when it is shown to fail it’ll be used as an excuse to move healthcare even more in the direction of government control.

Nobody would support them, eh?

In a recent Gallup poll, 58% of Americans favored a federally-funded universal health care system.

The ACA is a crappy compromise because it had to win the votes of conservative Democrats in Congress.

I don’t think you quite have it – it’s more like liberals are pure evil and want to destroy America, and will utilize any dishonesty in order to hurt America and Americans. Does that sound better?

You’re proving my point. Back when Obama was elected that was nowhere near true. Hillary proposing it during the Clinton administration almost destroyed his presidency.

I think one of the first examples was actually by Abraham Lincoln. There is no way that Lincoln could have freed the slaves at the start of his presidency so he acted like he didn’t support freeing slaves. He evolved on the issue as the country did.

So, what you’re arguing is that legislators pass laws when they will be popular, and not before? I am shocked. Shocked!

OK, so we can only make an apples-to-apples comparison by psychically reading the candidate’s mind to divine their true intent. And of course we can’t evaluate the nutjob’s sincerity without actually electing them. Gotcha. :rolleyes:

Does that actually count as “lying?” The facts – the level of public popularity, and the judicial atmosphere – changed.

That’s like accusing a huge swath of the Congress of having “lied” in 1941, declaring war after the attack on Pearl Harbor, despite earlier having been against entering the war. They didn’t lie; they changed their minds when the situation changed.

Sure. And when Republicans insist that abortion providers have admitting privileges to hospitals, their true goal is to to make sure that abortions are as safe as possible. That’s not deceptive at all :rolleyes:

okay, I’ll bite. I am convinced Trump has no interest in building a fucking wall if–god forbid–he got elected. He doesn’t give a shit about immigration, taxes, the military, the veterans, the economy, or fuck all. The only glimmer of hope in the event he got elected is he doesn’t actually have any interest or intention of doing any of the stupid shit he talks about.

Now wait a minute. I think he would try to lower taxes. For the wealthy.

I really don’t think he cares even about this.

He’s been saying that for awhile now. It’s hard to decide what Trump believes because he has very little consistency. Now we’re not even sure about immigration. That just leaves free trade, about the only issue he hasn’t wavered on.

Trump isn’t the only Republican though.

What’s also interesting is that the very issues you cite where Republicans don’t believe what they say supposedly are the very issues Democrats attack them on! Democrats apparently believe Republicans are serious about these things. That’s the big difference. Democrats lie to red state and moderate voters to NEUTRALIZE attacks on certain issues. Republicans, assuming they are lying(which I have not yet been convinced about), are apparently taking positions Democrats like to see them take because it makes them easier to beat.

If Republicans did what Democrats do, they would look a lot like Mitt Romney’s campaign against Ed Kennedy. That is actually an example which was brought up indirectly, so there’s one from when, 1996? Romney lied his ass off to try to beat Kennedy. He also failed. Unfortunately, many red state voters buy this bullshit from Democrats and send them to DC where they become completely different from what voters wanted.

He doesn’t care about free trade either. He’s an old man with no core beliefs or world view (other than building a brand). It’s a simple as that.