# Politicizing Katrina: is it happening? When is gov't criticism "inappropriate"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823 "2005-09-02T23:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/21 "2005-09-04T17:34:15Z")
When Sept. 11th happened, we weren’t supposed to critisize because it was “too soon”. When we went to war, we wern’t supposed to critisize because we were “in a war.” Now, once again, it’s too soon. When? When, dear conservatives, are we allowed to think crtitically about what is going on and engage in disussion? When the world is at peace, the lion lies with the lamb and all is right? With the current stream of fuck-ups, it’s going to be a while… ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/22 "2005-09-04T17:38:35Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > YOu’re right it’s a caricature. But it’s just my response to all the administration’s apologists pointing fingers at NO and Lousiana. Oh no, I believe the feds fuck up is unconscionable. Anyone who says Fema did a good job and Bush did all he should do is deluded beyond help. However, I recognize that the major onus was on the local government to protect it’s citizens from a natural disaster. All I Have heard about the Mayor and Governor was that they should be patted on the back for doing what little they did under such overwhelming circumstances. Hell, the only “critical” analysis I heard about the mayor from those appalled with the feds response was that he should rune for fucking President for speaking out like he did. Can you imagine Pataki and Giuliani abdicating responsibility after 9/11? 80 dead in a nursing home. Shouldn’t the locals have evacuated them before the storm when the mandatory evacuation order was given by the mayor and governor? Look at how Houston is handling 200,000 evacuees compared to New Orleans’ “bring your own food and water”. FEMA’s slow response is unforgivable, and Bush’s leadership was wanting to say the least. But who allowed those to be stranded there in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/23 "2005-09-04T17:47:08Z")
The whole point of things like FEMA is that it exists for situations in which the basic state functions are simply overwhelmed. The mayor and Governor should rightly face some serious criticism over their own failures. That will be up to the people of those states and cities to decide. But nationally, the feds are supposed to exist precisely because some things are way too big for even a single state to coordinate or handle. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/24 "2005-09-04T18:15:40Z")
To piggy back on what **Apos** said, even though they got warning, the mayor of NO did not know 100% that the hurricane was headed his way. He was probably betting on that slim chance it would do a last-minute turn and spare his city. Hence, why he did some things (calling for an evacuation, sending people to the Superdome, etc.) but did not go full force. If the storm had passed over uneventfully, he would have come out smelling like roses. The governor has a weaker excuse here because Louisiana is an easier target to hit and she is responsible for securing the state. But she, like the mayor, probably had her fingers crossed. Maybe it would veer towards Mississippi and Alabamba and spare the state entirely and she’d be off the hook. Note: I’m not excusing them. The reason I hold FEMA ultimately responsible is because the storm was surely going to make landfall SOMEWHERE in the United States. After it had crossed south Florida (where it actually packed a little punch) and we saw it was building up in that hot tub of the Gulf, anyone with a half a brain could predict it was going to do some major damage somewhere in the States. FEMA should have been there ready to roll in WHEREVER the hurricane landed. As far as it was concerned, no amount of finger-crossing would ever get them off the hook. FEMA should have been the one coordinating the local and state governments of ALL the threatened areas before the storm made landfall. They should have been telling mayors, city managers, and governors, “Look. Ya’ll need to get X, Y, and Z together. We’ve already got A, B, and C set up but we need you to get your people together and get them ready. After the storm hits, we’ll do 1, 2, and 3. Got it?” I don’t know if they did this, but it really doesn’t seem like it. A mayor and a governor have a lot of responsibilities, but they aren’t trained in disaster management. FEMA is. That’s why most of the ire has been directed at them. They were supposed to be in charge and we found them asleep at the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/25 "2005-09-04T18:39:12Z")
Since there’s no reason why gov’t can’t respond to criticism at any time, there’s no compelling reason I see to not criticize the gov’t at any time. If it’s a stupid criticism, then the response should be easy. If the people being critical made a judgement without having all the information, then there’s your easy response right there. I believe that nearly every time somebody says “it’s too soon to criticize” and related things like “we can’t criticize the president when there’s troops going to war” they are just deflecting because they’ve failed to come up with an effective defense of their position. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/26 "2005-09-04T18:42:18Z")
You had better believe that if the whole effort had gone smoothly, old Georgie Porgie would have been more than happy to take the credit and ham it up for the cameras. If he could and would do that (and he would) then criticism is more than fair. ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/27 "2005-09-04T18:50:31Z")
I don’t see your point **monstro**. Are you saying that even without the New Orleans flood that FEMA and the local governments of Miss. and Ala. wouldn’t have handled it? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/28 "2005-09-04T19:04:36Z")
> [@AFAIKnow](#): > > I don’t see your point **monstro**. Are you saying that even without the New Orleans flood that FEMA and the local governments of Miss. and Ala. wouldn’t have handled it? Does it seem like FEMA was prepared to you? I don’t know what difference a flood makes; it doesn’t seem like they were prepared for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/29 "2005-09-04T20:34:34Z")
The situation _needs_ to be politicized and pressure brought to bear so that steps are taken to insure that FEMA is restored and placed in the hands of capable leadership. Further, if the President is not going to read the newspapers, he might want to surround himself with advisors that do. The following is an excerpt from a [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/national/nationalspecial/03fema.html?ex=1283400000&en=dd4ade73e380b626&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss) article: > [@](#): > > On Thursday night, Michael D. Brown, the federal government’s point man for managing the response to Hurricane Katrina, made a remarkable confession on live television. > > Speaking of the thousands stranded at the convention center in New Orleans without food or water, Mr. Brown said that his agency, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, had just learned of their plight. > CNN’s Paula Zahn was incredulous. “Sir,” she said, “you aren’t just telling me you just learned that the folks at the convention center didn’t have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?” > “Paula,” Mr. Brown replied unequivocally, “the federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today.”(emphasis added) Note: Michael Brown not only had no prior experience in emergency management, but he had been fired from his last position for mismanagement. In mid-October the Administration’s new bankruptcy law goes into effect. Because of a partisan vote, the law makes no exception for victims of natural disasters such as hurricanes. > [@](#): > > **AFAIKnow** : …He (the mayor) was too fucking helpless to attempt to direct the police or get on a loudspeaker to impart some kind of leadership? Were you speaking of the Superdome where the National Guard was in charge? I would think that they would be more likely to have speakers than the mayor whose office was located in the devastated city. I did hear that one company that makes speakers for the military offered to donate speakers but were turned down. I ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/30 "2005-09-04T23:41:02Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Were you speaking of the Superdome where the National Guard was in charge? I would think that they would be more likely to have speakers than the mayor whose office was located in the devastated city. I did hear that one company that makes speakers for the military offered to donate speakers but were turned down. Umm, I think the Superdome was located in the devastated city as well. I didnt see any reports of guardsmen just driving past dead bodies and screaming pople. I did hear about local police. [http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3336548](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3336548) > [@](#): > > He also stressed that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco remains in charge, and that the Guard has no interest in taking over from civilian authorities. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823/31 "2005-09-05T02:02:00Z")
Further proof that it’s not just liberals and Democrats who are criticizing the federal government’s response: From [this](http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUSH_KATRINA?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-09-02-14-10-02) AP story: > [@](#): > > “I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can’t respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we’re prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?” said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politicizing-katrina-is-it-happening-when-is-govt-criticism-inappropriate/319823.md?page=1)