# Politics, Cranick, and the Firefighters Who Let His House Burn **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369 "2010-10-07T16:22:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/81 "2010-10-08T18:48:12Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > And I find that an odd criticism. After all, asking “should” is to ask for a normative opinion. Specifically, not a “what is?” (i.e., “what’s the reality of the situation?”) but a “what ought?” (i.e., “how ought things be?”). A purely subjective question, IMHO. Just because a question is “subjective” in that way doesn’t mean that some answers aren’t more “right” than others. I doubt you would try to claim that all answers to “Should we be allowed to kill people we don’t like” are equally valid, for instance. > [@](#): > > Ah, never mind then. What, you don’t want to take the chance that you might pleasantly surprise me? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/82 "2010-10-08T20:07:59Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Just because a question is “subjective” in that way doesn’t mean that some answers aren’t more “right” than others. I doubt you would try to claim that all answers to “Should we be allowed to kill people we don’t like” are equally valid, for instance. Yes, that’s right. But I’m not sure how that addresses my point. > [@](#): > > What, you don’t want to take the chance that you might pleasantly surprise me? Nah, not really. Since I think you do understand my position, feel free to imagine my responses, finding them satisfactory only insofar as I’ve met your low expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/83 "2010-10-08T20:13:06Z")
Let me put it this way. I know what you say your position is, but I don’t understand it insofar as it seems completely illogical to me. Thus, I’m asking questions about similar situations in an effort to either see that you apply these same rules across the board or encourage you to realize that you are being unfair to the people caught up in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/84 "2010-10-08T20:42:06Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Let me put it this way. I know what you say your position is, but I don’t understand it insofar as it seems completely illogical to me. Thus, I’m asking questions about similar situations in an effort to either see that you apply these same rules across the board or encourage you to realize that you are being unfair to the people caught up in this situation. OK, I accept that. Although I have to note: from the outset I’ve said that I’m not criticizing anyone “caught up in this situation”; rather, I’ve explicitly stated multiple times that I understand the various viewpoints and their ramifications. So it’s not clear to me how it’s possible that I’m being “unfair” to anyone. So there’s that. As to whether I’m consistent: > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > 1.) Are you currently moving to Obion County to start a volunteer fire department? If not, why not? Of course not. I don’t want to live in Obion County, so I don’t. > [@](#): > > 2.) When was the last time you provided what you did for a living to someone who skipped out on a bill? If someone stiffed you once, did you provide the goods or services to them a second time? I’ve never had an employer not pay me (lucky me). So, the second question is inapplicable. Although perhaps it would be pertinent to what I think is your point to mention that I’ve written open-source software (i.e., free to download source code, free to use). > [@](#): > > 3.) Why do you think that a firefighter has an obligation to risk their life to save property, when the owner of the property has so little regard for them as to refuse to pay a minimal fee for said services, even when those services have been of concrete benefit to him in the past? Because if I was a firefighter, that’s what I’d do. That is, if I was prevented from fulfilling what I see as my proper role as a firefighter, I would cease being a firefighter (that is, I’d quit). Someone who feels differently about being a firefighter would (and obviously does) act differently. ---
**Author:** ![Yaxche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8dc957/32.png) [@Yaxche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yaxche)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/85 "2010-10-08T20:45:47Z")
I understand the budget cuts, and the more we squeeze out taxes, the more services we lose… that’s another argument, though. Fact is, they had the resources to show up, to insure it didn’t spread, they should’ve just put the damn thing out. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/86 "2010-10-08T21:20:32Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Although I have to note: from the outset I’ve said that I’m not criticizing anyone “caught up in this situation”; rather, I’ve explicitly stated multiple times that I understand the various viewpoints and their ramifications. AFAICT, you’re saying “I’m not criticizing anyone” and then criticizing them. Saying that you would have done it differently and that, essentially, anyone with a conscience would have done it differently is criticism, even if you don’t explicitly say “you’re a bad person for doing it this way.” > [@](#): > > Of course not. I don’t want to live in Obion County, so I don’t. But you think they deserve free fire protection services. Why do you think someone else should be forced to provide what you’re not willing to? > [@](#): > > I’ve never had an employer not pay me (lucky me). So, the second question is inapplicable. Consider it in a hypothetical, then. What would you do \*if \*your employer stopped paying you for your work? > [@](#): > > Although perhaps it would be pertinent to what I think is your point to mention that I’ve written open-source software (i.e., free to download source code, free to use). 1.) No, it’s not pertinent. That was work that you \*volunteered \*to do, by your own free choice. This, on the other hand, would be like your boss \*ordering \*you to work on the open-source freeware project of his or her choice _on your lunch breaks_. 2.) Nitpick: That’s not what open-source means. Open-source software \*can \*be free to download and free to use, but it doesn’t \*have \*to be freeware. > [@](#): > > Because if I was a firefighter, that’s what I’d do. That’s not what “obligation” means. If I had a child, I’d raise them as an atheist, but that doesn’t mean that I think a Catholic or a Hindu or a Muslim family also has an obligation to raise their children as atheists. > [@Yaxche](#): > > Fact is, they had the resources to show up, to insure it didn’t spread, they should’ve just put the damn thing out. Fact is, they’ve done that in the past. \*For this very same person. \*And it \*still \*didn’t \*in any way \*encourage him to start paying his fair share of the costs. Do you think that the fire department could continue to provide these services to everyone else if only a percentage of the people they were serving were actually paying for it? Even though that might mean that they eventually couldn’t provide services to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/87 "2010-10-08T22:02:22Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > …and that, essentially, anyone with a conscience would have done it differently… And that, explicitly, is what I’ve not said, even though you insist it must be the case. As I guessed earlier, I’ve met your low expectations. And you’ve subsequently met mine… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/88 "2010-10-08T22:27:41Z")
It appears I’m in agreement with many here. 1. It was appropriate for the fire department not to signal that its fees need not be payed. I wish the Federal gov’t was as careful in signalling moral hazard to Wall St. banks. 2. Mr. Cranick gambled and lost. It was probably a stupid gamble; but of course 49% of Americans have below average intelligence. The big moral of the story was not Cranick’s or fire dept’s actions, but _ **that America’s hatred of taxes and embrace of hyper-libertarianism are big mistakes.** _ I hope this story serves as a big Wake Up, America! ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/89 "2010-10-08T22:37:23Z")
The first line of the linked article mentions it was a mobile home, btw. I feel bad for the family. Because their father was lazy about paying his bills, or had fallen on tough times money-wise, they have now lost everything. I’ve seen the emotional toll a house fire can place on a family. A friend from high school lost her home in a fire, and the stress on their family was immense and long-lasting. And now the publicity has just made all that worse for this family. I voted for…they should have put it out. And then make him pay the fee before he’s allowed back on the property. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/90 "2010-10-08T23:08:00Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Thought you guys might be interested in the history of [fire departments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_department): > > > [@Wikipedia](#): > > > > Fire departments were again formed by insurance companies in the 18th and 19th century. Benjamin Franklin is seen as the father of the fire department in western culture[citation needed]. In 1736, he established the first fire insurance company named the Union Volunteer Fire Company in Philadelphia.[3] The city of Boston established the very first publicly funded paid fire department in America in 1679.[4] Thanks. I read the link, and whilst I’ll not bother to correct Wiki, that very entry shows how that publication hilariously combines self-contradictory sentences: there’s half a century between Boston and Dr. Franklin becoming ‘father’. More thorough information here… **[CaptainMica.com](http://www.riotacts.com/fire/history.html)** > [@](#): > > In 1699 François du Mouriez took interest in a better pump, fire hose and some other advancements, and provided 12 fire pumps to the city of Paris to become the first “fire chief” (director) of des pompes de la Ville de Paris in 1716. The French fire brigade was known as, “Compagnie des gardes-pompes” (literally the “Company of Pump Guards”). The French word for pumper, “pompier” became the name for French firefighters to this day. On March 11, 1733 the French government proclaimed that the service of the fire brigades would be free of charge. Prior to this there was a fee and people often avoid calling in order to avoid being charged. > [@](#): > > Boston, as mentioned below, had a crew who was paid to maintain their one pump and respond to fires as early as 1678 and the fact that London established “fire companies” after the Great Fire of London in 1666. > [@](#): > > But there were organizations resembling firefighting “clubs”, also known as “Mutual Fire Societies” in Boston prior to this. Boston also had “Firewards” as early as 1711. As early as 1678, Boston had some fire fighting equipment and a paid crew to maintain it and respond to fires. In 1648, New York, and a few other cities, had a volunteer “rattle watch” who patrolled the streets. If a fire was discovered these people would sound an alarm and help organize bucket brigades. As early as 1731 there is a record of the City of New York purchasing fire apparatus. This was a hand pump/brake bar engine. There is a photo of this engine on the FASNY Fire Museum website. > [@](#): > > But the thought that a burning home, with no fire mark, was left to burn, was probably not true. In fact, in the U.S., there is no evidence to support this belief. And in Ipswich, England there was organisation for fire-fighting two hundred years before Franklin’s ‘paternity’ — which I’m sure was paralleled in many other contemporary cities around the world. **[Transport Museum](http://www.ipswichtransportmuseum.co.uk/hfire.htm)**… > [@](#): > > The first “fire service” in Ipswich dates back over 400 years. In 1564 regulations were issued by the Great Court, or early council, under which every Burgess was required to provide a leather bucket, known as a “Bobbett” for the purpose of fighting fires in the mainly wooden buildings lining the narrow streets. Further efforts in 1568 saw the Town Treasurer being required to buy, for each parish, ladders and cromes, or long rakes, for pulling burning thatch off buildings. He was evidently not too diligent for in 1631 there were only two of each in the town. Theree’s nothing useful I can comment on this case, except that the situation seems to we statist socialist Europeans just another case of crazy Americana; and the righteous comments eerily mirror the libertarian viewpoints of commentators at Volokh’s on random subjects… The pleasure of fault-finding in no way disguises the fact the unfortunate Mr. Cranick had a horrible experience. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/91 "2010-10-09T04:40:32Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But you think they deserve free fire protection services. Why do you think someone else should be forced to provide what you’re not willing to? Why do you claim that something is illogical but use an emotional basis to back up a moral position. There’s plenty of things I don’t do that I perceive as being immoral if they don’t do it. Different people are in different circumstances. I cannot afford to help the poor since I am pretty close to the poor line myself. That doesn’t mean I don’t think people that make significantly more money than they need shouldn’t be helping out the poor. I can’t even get out of the flipping house right now, but that doesn’t mean I think it’s moral for people to not do things that I only avoid because I can’t leave. I also tend to handle stressful situations poorly. That doesn’t mean I don’t expect people who can handle stressful situations to do it for others. Digital Stimulus has indicated that he isn’t going to help out because, by not living there, he is not in the position to do so. There’s no reason he can’t expect other people who do live there to do what he considers a moral duty. It’s not complicated. Or do you expect me to think you are immoral because you don’t travel to Africa to help with the AIDS epidemic? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/92 "2010-10-09T16:21:59Z")
I am to the left of practically anyone in this forum, and I agree with the firefighter’s decision. Being a liberal means that you also have to trust the people to know what’s best for themselves. The _people_ in that county set up that system (however stupid and fucked-up), Mr. Cranick made his own decision, the system they set up worked as it should. Perhaps they will re-think their system. Or not, as is their right. ---
**Author:** ![Student\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@Student\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student_Driver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/93 "2010-10-09T20:20:48Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I lean liberal and I thought the firefighters did the absolute best they could. They were between a rock and a hard place! And I hope people read the thread before they respond. > > 1. County votes not to have any fire protection through taxes because OMG TAXES. > 2. County agrees to have people pay the FD $75 for fire protection. > 3. Mr. Crannick does not pay. His house lights up. > 4. FD comes, puts it out. > 5. Time passes. Mr. Crannick does not pay. His house lights up. > 6. FD comes. Makes sure no lives are in danger. Does not put house out. > 7. CONTROVERSY. > > It is clear to me that Crannick thought he could continue living off his neighbor’s dime. This is what this comes down to. Crannick thought his neighbors would pay the fee and thus he was exempt. That he was speshul. > > He deserved what he got. This is pretty much me. Numbers 3 through 4 make it especially odious. I’d be so f’ing grateful for #3, and the lesson that “oh, fires can affect me” that I’d probably start paying my $75 out of gratitude for saving my ass when I didn’t deserve it. I’d probably also have sent a round of pizzas to the firehouse. The fire chief had to make a tough decision in telling the fire fighters to not put out the fire. Fire fighting is his and their job, and it probably hurt to make that decision and stand by, watching disaster befall someone… but keeping the fire company financially afloat and able to fight fires in the future is also his job. Freeloaders jeopardize the future ability of his crew to effectively fight fires in unincorporated areas, and continuously saving the asses of people who aren’t contributing demonstrates a willingness to accommodate freeloaders. Crannick already used his Get Out of Jail Free card. The fire company did him a _favor_ before (and probably sternly reminded him at the time of the risk he ran for not having paid his fees). In the other thread, several times people suggested that the fire company could have put out the fire and levied the costs of the operation against him later. Make Crannick pay for the combined wages, equipment usage, water usage, etc. Great idea, and maybe in that community something like that will be adopted eventually… but at the time of the fire, there was apparently no such mechanism in place for the department to actually do this. Accept the verbal pleadings of Crannick to pay “whatever it took?” Why? He probably swore he’d keep his dues up when he was helped before. That said, if it’s demonstrated that Crannick _did_ pay his dues in the intervening years between fires, and had genuinely forgotten this year’s payment, then I’m likely to be more sympathetic to him. If he just went without paying most/all of the time, then I’m on the fire chief’s side. He was cut some slack once. Not again. (I also have to admit that if I were one of the fire fighters, I might have defied the chief’s orders, since at the moment, I wouldn’t have gone through the above reasoning… I’d just have the emotional tug of seeing a man lose his home.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/94 "2010-10-09T21:35:04Z")
Cranick made a number of bets and lost. We don’t blame the stock exchange when someone loses his house playing penny stocks, so why should we be any more empathetic when someone gambles with fire department defunding multiple times and loses? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/95 "2010-10-09T22:34:30Z")
Another factor to consider is that a fire department doesn’t just appear by magic. If everyone waited until their house was on fire in order to pay, it wouldn’t matter how much they were willing to pay because there wouldn’t be anyone to offer the money to. The fire department only exists because people are willing to pay in advance. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/96 "2010-10-09T22:44:43Z")
It was not about the 75 bucks, he offered to pay it and more. They let 3 dogs and a cat die, while they were there and had the means to prevent it. They were teaching him a lesson. He had paid the fee in the past. I hope a beginning Alzheimers person doesn’t forget. I hope some old person does not let it slip her mind. I hope someone developing mental illnesses does not have a fire. The International Firefighters Org. is decrying the firemen who allowed the fire to burn. Animals lovers are shocked that they could allow animals to die when they could have stopped it. Next Sunday go ask your priest to explain faith ,hope and charity to you. Ask him why this scene was an affront.Kneel in the pew and think about how wrong this was. Go ask your Rabbi about it. He will explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/97 "2010-10-09T23:09:08Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > > > Does this mean that anyone who cheated on their taxes, like, say, _buying something over the Internet in a state that requires a disclosure yet fails to do so_ should be disqualified for receiving **any** state services? > > It doesn’t equate. Taxes aren’t opt-in, and services like the fire and police departments provide in areas where they are paid for by taxes are also not opt-in. Ah, great. I agree. They’re not the same. If someone shirks an _obligation_ (in this case, to pay taxes), then it’s an even **stronger** claim: If you haven’t paid taxes on all of your internet purchases (assuming your a state that obliges you to do so), then you should not have any expectation of redress should the police, fire department, etc., intentionally withhold services from you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/98 "2010-10-09T23:45:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It was not about the 75 bucks, he offered to pay it and more. > They let 3 dogs and a cat die, while they were there and had the means to prevent it. They were teaching him a lesson. He had paid the fee in the past. > I hope a beginning Alzheimers person doesn’t forget. I hope some old person does not let it slip her mind. I hope someone developing mental illnesses does not have a fire. > The International Firefighters Org. is decrying the firemen who allowed the fire to burn. Animals lovers are shocked that they could allow animals to die when they could have stopped it. > Next Sunday go ask your priest to explain faith ,hope and charity to you. Ask him why this scene was an affront.Kneel in the pew and think about how wrong this was. Go ask your Rabbi about it. He will explain it. Well maybe the dogs and cats were a terrorist sleeper cell and they were going to stage a nuclear attack next month. So by standing down, those fire men saved the lives of tens of thousands of people and baby ducklings. So you might be the kind of person who would callously let baby ducklings die. But I can look my generic clergyperson of choice in the eye and say “Not me.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/99 "2010-10-11T15:08:33Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > > …and that, essentially, anyone with a conscience would have done it differently… > > And that, explicitly, is what I’ve not said, even though you insist it must be the case. You said that it’s both what you would have done \*\*\*and \*\*\*what the firefighters should have done. If you think that someone else’s conscience could come to a different conclusion, then you would think the first conclusion but not the second. If you disagree with my assessment of your position, then you must acknowledge that the firefighters made the right choice by letting the house burn. > [@BigT](#): > > Or do you expect me to think you are immoral because you don’t travel to Africa to help with the AIDS epidemic? 1.) Shhhhhh, you’re getting in the way of my RO. 2.) The distinction is that I’m not in here saying that everyone in Africa should be helping everyone who has AIDS and are bad people if they don’t. > [@gonzomax](#): > > It was not about the 75 bucks, he offered to pay it and more. As has been patiently explained to you time and again: The world does not work on imaginary future maybe money. The fire department cannot pay the salaries of its employees, the rent on its buildings, the bills for the upkeep of its equipment, if it does not receive consistent income. [quote] They let 3 dogs and a cat die, while they were there and had the means to prevent it.[/quite] Cranick _let his own animals die_, by (a) not paying to protect them when he had the chance and (b) not getting them out of the burning house himself. > [@](#): > > Next Sunday go ask your priest to explain faith ,hope and charity to you. Ask him why this scene was an affront. It’s such a good thing we live in a theocracy. Oh wait. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/100 "2010-10-11T15:38:11Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You said that it’s both what you would have done \*\*\*and \*\*\*what the firefighters should have done. If you think that someone else’s conscience could come to a different conclusion, then you would think the first conclusion but not the second. Or, perhaps, I just accept that other people can have opinions and make decisions that do not match mine. > [@](#): > > If you disagree with my assessment of your position, then you must acknowledge that the firefighters made the right choice by letting the house burn. As I’ve said – repeatedly – I understand why they let the house burn. They made a choice, just as Cranick did to not pay the $75 service fee (assuming he didn’t really “forget” it, but actively decided). The system worked as designed…it’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Nonetheless, if I were a firefighter on the scene, I would’ve chosen differently. Not only that, but I think the other firefighters should’ve chosen differently. They didn’t…but that’s because they are not me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369.md?page=6)