# Politics, Cranick, and the Firefighters Who Let His House Burn **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 7, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369 "2010-10-07T16:22:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/101 "2010-10-11T16:29:04Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Or, perhaps, I just accept that other people can have opinions and make decisions that do not match mine. I do not think this means what you think it means. You say that you accept this, and you keep taking offense at my suggestion that you think they were wrong, but then you again repeat this statement: > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, if I were a firefighter on the scene, I would’ve chosen differently. Not only that, but I think the other firefighters should’ve chosen differently. If you think they \*should have \*chosen differently, _that means you think they were wrong_. You can understand why someone made a choice but still think they were wrong. For example, I \*understand why \*Hitler made the Jews a scapegoat for everything that was going wrong in the German economy, and that \*in no way excuses \*what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/102 "2010-10-11T16:41:19Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > You say that you accept this, and you keep taking offense at my suggestion that you think they were wrong… No, what I take “offense at”\* is your insistence on having my opinion be a lesson in universal morality. Oh, and – congratulations! You’ve Godwin-ed the thread in the process. \*It’s notable that you cannot distinguish between my disagreement with you and me “taking offense at”. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/103 "2010-10-11T16:51:00Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > No, what I take “offense at”\* is your insistence on having my opinion be a lesson in universal morality. Well then please explain to me how you can think someone should have made a different decision but simultaneously \*not \*think that they made the wrong one. Thinking that things should be other than they are seems to me to pretty much be the definition of thinking they’re currently wrong. > [@](#): > > Oh, and – congratulations! You’ve Godwin-ed the thread in the process. It was entirely intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/104 "2010-10-11T17:09:43Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Well then please explain to me how you can think someone should have made a different decision but simultaneously \*not \*think that they made the wrong one. Thinking that things should be other than they are seems to me to pretty much be the definition of thinking they’re currently wrong. But I _do_ think the firefighters made the wrong decision and have said as much. That’s not the same as thinking they made an _unconscionable_ decision, nor does it mean I hold them in _contempt_, nor that they acted _immorally_. Because – at least in this case – I understand their viewpoint and can thereby respect their decisions. _Even if I disagree._ > [@](#): > > It was entirely intentional. And that speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/105 "2010-10-11T18:02:11Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > But I _do_ think the firefighters made the wrong decision and have said as much. That’s not the same as thinking they made an _unconscionable_ decision, nor does it mean I hold them in _contempt_, nor that they acted _immorally_. Because – at least in this case – I understand their viewpoint and can thereby respect their decisions. _Even if I disagree._ Let me get this straight. 1.) The firefighters made the wrong decision. 2.) The firefighters did not act immorally. 3.) You respect their decision. I think the problem is that I see these things as being mutually exclusive. If it was not immoral, how can it be the wrong decision? Isn’t that what makes it wrong? And how can you respect a decision that you think was wrong? > [@](#): > > And that speaks volumes. Yes, it says “I don’t take myself nearly as seriously as you do.” ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/106 "2010-10-11T18:38:13Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If it was not immoral, how can it be the wrong decision? Because “wrong” and “immoral” are not equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/107 "2010-10-11T19:19:47Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Because “wrong” and “immoral” are not equivalent. If not, please define “right” and “wrong” in the contexts in which you’re using them here. Aren’t you glad you kept responding? Now we’re actually getting somewhere! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/108 "2010-10-11T19:24:47Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If not, please define “right” and “wrong” in the contexts in which you’re using them here. Right: what I would do. Wrong: what I would not do. > [@](#): > > Aren’t you glad you kept responding? Now we’re actually getting somewhere! 😃 No, not really. No new ground has been uncovered and seemingly perpetual repetition is quite tedious. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/109 "2010-10-11T19:39:01Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Right: what I would do. > Wrong: what I would not do. Let’s say you’re lactose intolerant. Is it then “wrong” for someone else to drink a glass of milk, just because it’s not what you would do? Would you be saying about a group of people at a birthday party, “I would not have had my cake a la mode, and I think those people who had ice cream on their cake were wrong”? Clearly, “what I would do” is not your criterion for determining right and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/110 "2010-10-11T23:21:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Let’s say you’re lactose intolerant. Is it then “wrong” for someone else to drink a glass of milk, just because it’s not what you would do? Would you be saying about a group of people at a birthday party, “I would not have had my cake a la mode, and I think those people who had ice cream on their cake were wrong”? > > Clearly, “what I would do” is not your criterion for determining right and wrong. I went out to run some errands, got back, read that, and thought, “_What the? **Guns** is better than that._” Then it dawned on me…_of course_ you’re better than that. Your job must be terribly boring; I hope I’ve provided a bit of distraction for you. IHBmildlyT. I’m out. HAND. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/111 "2010-10-12T05:53:22Z")
Maybe I’ve missed it in earlier posts but did Cranick have home insurance? If so, then his insurer is certainly an effected party in this situation. You’d think they would require their customers to pay for fire protection when it’s an option (or highly mark up their rates if they decline to pay). Otherwise I can see somebody saying “My $10,000 trailer is insured for $30,000? Yeah, sure I’m going to pay my fire department dues. Right after I light all these candles.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/112 "2010-10-12T15:21:51Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > IHBmildlyT. I’m out. HAND. I’m sorry, did you just accuse me of being a troll? I guess that’s one way of getting out of actually having to explain the complete logical inconsistencies in your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/113 "2010-10-12T15:41:22Z")
The poll is wrong. the firemen wanted to save the home and the animals. they were ordered not to. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/114 "2010-10-12T18:10:52Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Then it dawned on me…_of course_ you’re better than that. Your job must be terribly boring; I hope I’ve provided a bit of distraction for you. > > IHBmildlyT. I’m out. HAND. Since “IHBT” is known to stand for “I Have Been Trolled,” I’m asking you, **Digital Stimulus** , to knock it off with accusations of trolling. **Ellen Cherry IMHO Moderator** ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/115 "2010-10-12T20:42:18Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The poll is wrong. the firemen wanted to save the home and the animals. they were ordered not to. And they chose to obey those orders. So either you think they were right to obey the orders, however you may think the orders themselves were the wrong call, or you think that the firefighters should have disobeyed those orders and saved the house anyway. As I believe I’ve mentioned upthread, the reasoning behind your poll selection does not have to be identical to every other person who makes the same choice. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/116 "2011-12-08T22:36:21Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > Right: what I would do. > Wrong: what I would not do. Seriously? I would drink skim milk, but not 2% milk. Does this mean that I consider it “right” to drink skim and “wrong” to drink 2%? I think that your definitions of right and wrong fail this test. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/117 "2011-12-08T23:03:56Z")
Interesting that this thread has been revived, given that [the same thing has happened again](http://www.care2.com/causes/firefighters-watch-home-burn-and-do-nothing-again.html) in the same location. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369/118 "2011-12-08T23:17:24Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > I would drink skim milk, but not 2% milk. Does this mean that I consider it “right” to drink skim and “wrong” to drink 2%? I don’t drink either skim or 2%. I am… the 1%. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/politics-cranick-and-the-firefighters-who-let-his-house-burn/556369.md?page=5)