# Poll and discussion for Democratic/liberal/progressive voters: your early preference for 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 29, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263 "2018-11-29T13:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/161 "2018-12-10T02:09:05Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > I may not be the best person to answer this, since I’m not at this point favoring any particular candidate; but I do like Klobuchar, and so I’ll give you a response, understanding it may not be a response you’re really looking for :). Thanks for the response. Looking at it more closely, you’re absolutely right that being in favor of the Intelligence Authorization Act of 2008 is pretty benign - I guess I should know better, because any time they’re doing something egregiously heinous, they make sure to wrap it up in patriotic-sounding BS like the Patriot Act or the Protect America Act. And I didn’t look as closely as you did in the context of her Iraq funding vote, which I agree puts her in a better light. I still say she’s too pro-spy-on-all-american-citizens for her vote on Protect America Act, and is way too “let’s spy on everyone and impede free speech and shut down websites because we need to think of the children” for my tastes, and I am still against her for that and will remain so. But I appreciate you bringing up the context around the waterboarding repeal and war funding, as it makes me feel a little better about her as a potential candidate. I think my overall point remains though - to me, she still has pretty substantial negatives some of the other potentials don’t have, so I would still strongly favor those other potential candidates over Klobuchar. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/162 "2018-12-10T04:22:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Joe Biden. It is imperative to win. Biden can carry the blue collar white vote better than any of the others. I agree it is imperative to win, but my statements about the problems with Biden remain. He has his “silly guy” problems where he ran his mouth all the time, the “creepy Biden” meme that hurts him with the #MeToo crowd, his age, and a lack of appeal to the progressive side of the base. Also, he’s very clearly “the Establishment.” I don’t know most of these, but I know that Beto was going for an appeal to progressives and liberals in Texas. He got a ton of the white working class on his side, even if he couldn’t out Cruz. And he presented himself as something different. I think that Obama in his speech about Trump has it right: we need someone who appeals the working class and the progressives, like he did, and that it can be done. We need someone who is there to unite the party. Not someone furthering the “establishment moderates” vs. “new blood progressives” divide. That said, I have no answer to the OP. I can’t answer this early without any of them having done even a test run to see how popular they are. Voting is ultimately a popularity contest, and we need to see who can win over Democrats and moderates. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/163 "2018-12-10T04:40:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m with you up to a point. I’ll vote for anyone who isn’t stupid, too liberal, and inexperienced. Has to be all three of those. If things are going well under Trump, I’d rather have his kind of stupid than an entirely new, more ambitious stupid that wants to remake 35% of the economy. The problem with that is that things are already not “going well under Trump,” and there’s absolutely no sign that this is going to change. Also the President can’t remake the economy on their own, anyways. The Senate is barely competitive, so worst case for Republicans is that Democrats get a regular majority, not a supermajority in the Senate. And economic changes have to pass Congress. I don’t think you need to worry about a too liberal president tanking our economy. While you do have to worry that Trump’s economic problems will catch up with him. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/164 "2018-12-10T04:50:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Change anyone’s mind on a partisan topic? That seems to be futile in today’s clime. > Instead let’s focus on _ **Getting out the Youth Vote.** _ All of the non-voting young people I have talked to say that they don’t think voting matters, that both sides are bad, and that it’s better to not participate than to be part of the problem. This is, in my mind, all conservative propaganda. So I think we need to be countering this. Let’s run tons of ads showing how voting has mattered. Let’s have young people saying how much certain Democratic stuff has helped them. And, for fuck’s sake, no supposed Democrat should ever push the “voting fraud” angle that makes people think their votes won’t count. That is the one thing that makes me completely anti-Sanders. Voter fraud makes people think their votes don’t count. Sure, push the idea that Republicans will try things to get you not to vote, and how you can deny them. But don’t push the idea that they could vote and the vote won’t count. There is nothing more disenfranchising to the mind. The big push to get the youth vote, beyond listening to youth issues, is to emphasize how much their vote matters. I want to see real people saying how, if just a few other people had voted in 2016, the shit against LGBT people wouldn’t be happening. I want to push the real politics that even the smaller things matter–things don’t have to be perfect. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/165 "2018-12-10T13:19:39Z")
I don’t get the enthusiasm for Beto O’Rourke, he lost to Ted Cruz, the guy who lost to Trump. I also don’t think his resume is substantial enough to be a good presidential candidate. I think he could be useful on the campaign trail for things like fund raising to the already converted and maybe as someone that the Democratic candidate touts as a cabinet pick, but I don’t think a former dress-wearing front man for a punk band is the best candidate to beat Trump. And for me, that is all that matters: beating Trump. If a candidate stumbles? “Sorry, next!” The stakes are too high to worry about hurt feelings or ego. Right now, my favorites might be Cory Booker, Harris, or Gillibrand. I think that Biden could also be a contender, but he’s likely too old. Whoever the candidate eventually is, I’ll be behind him/her in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/166 "2018-12-10T15:49:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > All of the non-voting young people I have talked to say that they don’t think voting matters, that both sides are bad, and that it’s better to not participate than to be part of the problem. > > This is, in my mind, all conservative propaganda. So I think we need to be countering this. Let’s run tons of ads showing how voting has mattered. Let’s have young people saying how much certain Democratic stuff has helped them. This is so very true. The most insidious of vote suppression (because it’s protected speech) is the active discouragement of voters like this. The best way to stop change is to convince people not to exercise their political power by voting. You’d think everyone on the political left would realize this, but too often I hear self-identified liberals and progressives downplay the value of voting. Don’t do that! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/167 "2018-12-10T17:59:03Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > Question for the many pro-Klobuchars here: > > I’d be opposed to her because she’s: > > 1. Pro-spy-on-all-american-citizens and anti-privacy and fourth amendment (one of only 16 D’s voting for Protect America Act of 2007, voted yes on Intelligence Authorization Act of 2008) > 2. Pro-big media and bullshit copyright terms (introduced Commercial Felony Streaming act) > 3. Pro-war (voted for increased Iraq funding, voted for war in Libya). > 4. Anti-Craigslist / weirdos / sex-workers - she backed SESTA, the law that got Craigslist personals taken down (the only good personals site for certain flavors of kink) and forced sex workers back into much more dangerous streetwalking/pimp systems instead of being able to use the internet (also destroying law enforcements ability to police for trafficked / underage people on those sites), and is broadly very “think of the children!” in terms of sponsoring legislation taking away privacy and speech rights in favor of questionably-effective morality policing measures. > > Those issues matter to _me_ enough that I would take any of the many other candidates who AREN’T all those things while still being progressive (Booker’s a good example), but do you pro-K folk see other additional great qualities that Klobuchar brings that offset her stance on those things, or do you just not care/are in favor about those issues? Very good reasons not to support her. I hadn’t looked at her record that closely, so I didn’t know all that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/168 "2018-12-10T18:31:50Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > … But those are **moderate** gun owners - if they are moderate, they wouldn’t choose whom to vote purely on the basis of their position on gun control, would they? According to [a recent Gallup poll](https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-healthcare-economy-immigration.aspx), 72% of voters said that Gun policy would be extremely/very important to their choice of candidate for Congress. This was a higher percentage than for Taxes or Income/Wealth Distribution, and way ahead of Trade Policy and Climate Change. In [June 2018 Gallup asked](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx) “What do you think is the most important problem facing the country today?” 4% answered “Guns/Gun control” and 2% answered “Crime/Violence” compared with 15% for _all economic answers summed together_. In March 2018 (in reaction to Stoneman Douglas High School?) a whopping 13% of Americans said “Guns/Gun Control” was **“the most important problem facing the country today.”** We’re left to guess how many of these were pro- and how many anti- but … either way … Wow! _ **Thirteen percent!** _ I hope the D candidate can find some wishy-washy middle-ground, lulling the “moderate” gun nuts while not angering the gun-control nuts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/169 "2018-12-10T18:44:34Z")
What is a “moderate gun owner”? What positions does he hold? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/170 "2018-12-10T19:43:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Very good reasons not to support her. I hadn’t looked at her record that closely, so I didn’t know all that. Actually if you read the response, these are not good reasons at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/171 "2018-12-10T19:46:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What is a “moderate gun owner”? What positions does he hold? More or less, he doesn’t want _his_ gun banned. That’s a rather simplistic answer, but we have discussed this up thread. So, banning bump stocks is fine, since almost no one uses them. Assault weapons can be banned depending on the defintion, ban AR15s you could be Ok, expand that definition grossly by including half the guns in circulation, you’re gonna lose the election. Handgun banning is right out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/172 "2018-12-10T19:49:01Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I hope the D candidate can find some wishy-washy middle-ground, lulling the “moderate” gun nuts while not angering the gun-control nuts. It’s pretty easy. Read Heller and look at the list of what SCOTUS said was OK. Do that. You should be alright. " Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56." ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/173 "2018-12-10T21:50:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Actually if you read the response, these are not good reasons at all. They are for some of us. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/174 "2018-12-10T22:18:27Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > They are for some of us. Read \*\*Ulf the Unwashed \*\*response, above, that tears these down as being pretty much useless indicators. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/175 "2018-12-11T00:31:36Z")
Two of them. I take the rights of internet users more seriously than you seem to. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/176 "2018-12-11T00:50:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Two of them. I take the rights of internet users more seriously than you seem to. Or, possibly you dont. A Vote with your party has little significant as to a politicians actual standing on a subject. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/177 "2018-12-13T16:12:23Z")
And now Beto’s in undisputed 1st place. Frightening. If he really has potential to be a great vintage, first age him as a Cabinet secretary or Governor or … Senator. What’s the rush? Hope that he’ll win Texas? Nostalgia for Obama’s youthful magic? Belief that inexperience won’t be an issue? (In 2008 running against Sarah Palin, a financial crisis, and big GWB boners, _any D would have won_.) Can someone lay out the case for Beto? I’m afraid centrists may be unconvinced and stay home in November or turn to the Repubs. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/178 "2018-12-13T16:25:45Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And now Beto’s in undisputed 1st place. Frightening. If he really has potential to be a great vintage, first age him as a Cabinet secretary or Governor or … Senator. What’s the rush? > > Hope that he’ll win Texas? Nostalgia for Obama’s youthful magic? Belief that inexperience won’t be an issue? (In 2008 running against Sarah Palin, a financial crisis, and big GWB boners, _any D would have won_.) > > Can someone lay out the case for Beto? I’m afraid centrists may be unconvinced and stay home in November or turn to the Repubs. My case is laid out [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21325972&postcount=114): > [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m still tentatively on Team Beto at the moment, not because he’d be the best President of all the choices on offer but because he’s quite likely the best campaigner the Democrats have. He’s got a positive, upbeat message (a la Obama), he’s already got international name recognition, he’s shown he can fundraise extremely well without relying primarily on big donors, he’s from an increasingly purple Texas, he’s already been through a full cycle of GOP shitflinging with minimal reputational damage and his debate performances, while not stellar, were reasonably competent and not damaging either. > > Yes, his experience is limited but the Republicans are hardly in a position to bitch about candidates with limited political experience. Pair him with someone who does have the policy chops and DC insider connections (as Obama did with Biden) and the Democrats could be onto a winner. Obviously Beto has to 1) want the job and 2) keep up the momentum. But the above poll is a “right now” thing, not a prediction of what the race will look like in a year’s time, and right now Beto has the potential to be a strong contender. If he lets it all slide, well, then we’ll consider someone else. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/179 "2018-12-13T16:55:49Z")
Bernie or bust. Tulsi Gabbard is OK. Elizabeth Warren…on paper…though she’s likely to sell out to to “pragmatism”. All others are corporate republican-lite, ‘Third-Way’ neoliberals that don’t give a damn about the working class. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263/180 "2018-12-13T17:05:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > And now Beto’s in undisputed 1st place. Frightening. If he really has potential to be a great vintage, first age him as a Cabinet secretary or Governor or … Senator. What’s the rush? > > … My initial inclination is to agree. But I recall folk saying Obama lacked sufficient experience, and he turned out all right. And lately I’ve been wondering how much “experience” is necessary, as opposed to such things as character, compassion, and common sense. Not saying Beto has those in spades, but if he does … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-and-discussion-for-democratic-liberal-progressive-voters-your-early-preference-for-2020/825263.md?page=10)