# Poll: Homosexuals natural or conditioned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 21, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032 "2003-01-21T19:26:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/81 "2003-01-23T15:02:51Z")
That’s fairly accurate, **Poly**. I identify as gay. Determining whether I’m a Kinsey 4 or 5 is more of an intellectual exercise than a real necessity. In practice, since my divorce, I may as well be a 6. ---
**Author:** ![ffabris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a87d85/32.png) [@ffabris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ffabris)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/82 "2003-01-23T15:41:42Z")
**IzzyR** , I think the point that was being made is that gender role reversals are a different kettle of fish from homosexuality (correct me if I’m wrong, **Esprix** , **ava** ). I am a gay man, but do not identify with women: I don’t feel that I am one, I don’t behave like one, nor do I take on stereotypically “feminine roles”. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/83 "2003-01-23T16:12:07Z")
**ffabris** , the point _I_ was making was that I am making no claims in this regard - I was summarizing the claims of others, in this case guys named Green, Witham and Mathy, as quoted by [religioustolerance.org](http://religioustolerance.org). So if you have any complaints, you can direct them to the affornamed individuals, website, or Esprix, who cited them as an authority. I also noted that the assertions of ava in denying a connection are unsupported. But I would also direct you to my initial response to Esprix, in which I pointed out (that these studies are inconclusive in determining the age at which orientation is fixed because) there might be a subset of the gay population to which the study factors apply, and others to whom it does not. So that any observations about specific individuals or study groups might not be conclusive about all or most gays. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Bartender](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@Da\_Bartender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Bartender)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/84 "2003-01-23T16:18:25Z")
okay, I didn’t have time to read through them all but my Father is gay, has a b/f and my best friend is a lesbian. I’m very secure with myself to know that I’m not gay, and just because my father is doesn’t mean that I’m all of a sudden going to be one… my Father “relised(if you will)” that he was gay at the age of 35. I think that everyone has the POTENTIAL to be gay, but only few actually come out of the closet depending on how they’re brought up… if your parents brought you up teaching that gay was wrong and they all should die, what are the chances the you’re going to come out? or even admit to yourself that you are becuase of how you’ve been taught. sorry if that jumps around a lot (if this posts twice it was because I got an error) ---
**Author:** ![ffabris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a87d85/32.png) [@ffabris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ffabris)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/85 "2003-01-23T17:20:59Z")
Point taken, **IzzyR**. I have re-read the posts and see that I got muddled in the several exchanges. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/86 "2003-01-23T18:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > **This evidence is meaningful when directed at the argument that all homosexuality is completely the result of environment. But when considering the possiblity that both genetics (and/or fetal hormone exposure) and environmental conditions play a factor, they do not show anything.** Well, it’s the best I can do given the parametres of **Fuel** ’s OP. I interpreted this as meaning that personal anecdotes and experiences were disallowed: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Fuel_ > **no uses of “this gay friend of mine says this or does that” or “the gay people i hang out with do this”…** The problem is, of course, that that’s a ridiculous stipulation on a subject so personal. It reduces me to having to quote experts to justify my own experiences. I was born gay. Prior to puberty, I was developing crushes on boys, while I felt more drawn to girls as friends. At the beginning of puberty (age 11 to 16) I tried to develop an attraction to women, and extinguish my attraction to men. It should also be noted that the closest thing to a gay influence on my life was Jack Tripper on _Three’s Company_. My textbooks and my teachers dutifully erased the existence of homosexuals at any point in history, or in any society. The one reference I found to homosexuality in any book I had, growing up, was one of those sex ed books, which said that homosexuality was just “an adolescent phase.” None of this matters to most people on the other side of the debate, who demand scientists as intermediaries to verify our personal experience. I personally find this silly. Here’s an analogy to illustrate. In 1633, Galileo was forced to recant his position that the earth revolved around the sun. Galileo’s conclusion was based on personal observation, but it interfered with the views the experts of the day. The expert opinion was considered more correct that direct observation. Psychology and Sociology – the two disciplines most invoked in debates on the origin of sexual orientation – now wear the mantle, and the legitimacy, of science. But I’ve always been skeptical of their claims to science, because the strength of science is its power to draw conclusions from _direct_ observation of the world, so these two disciplines are a far cry from what Galileo was doing. No psychologist can directly observe any mind except their own. And sociology is often wrapped up in power and ideology, since “society” is such a difficult thing to make concrete observations about. Ultimately, _I_ am the only “scientist” who can directly study _my own_ desire. Everyone else can only go on hearsay, and a person who claims to know my desires better than I do is no better than the 17th-century inquisitor who claims to know astronomy better than a man who’s looked through a telescope. > [@](#): > > \*\*Also, I am skeptical of your first claim - and I can’t imagine how you might prove such a sweeping claim.As noted above, common sense would seem to suggest that there are environmental factors as well. Also as noted, there would seem to be differences in the prevalence in different cultures and eras. \*\* Differences in prevalence? Or differences in _apparent_ prevalence? Given that homosexuality has been repressed in some cultures and tolerated others, and reliable statistics are a very modern invention, we know very little about the precise numbers. Also, we have to consider bisexuals – they have a few more options, and in cultures where homosexuality is taboo, they are probably less likely to express that half of their desires. You’re right that I was being sloppy in my assertion. I would amend it to, “we know homosexuality exists in every society about which we have extensive knowledge of sexual practices.” A full enumeration of the practices and cultural attitudes towards homosexuality is more than I can make in a single post. The site I linked is a good starting point, but hopelessly eurocentric. If you really want to read more, there’s plenty out there. I’m reading a good book right now called _Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities_ right now. It takes aim at the myth that homosexuality is a later import or a “corruption,” and looks at the oldest sources available about homosexuality in pre-colonial Africa. There have been plenty of books, too, written on the _berdache_ of First-Nations/American-Indian peoples, the Samurai warrior culture of Japan, etc, etc, etc. > [@](#): > > \*\*In general, it is important to distinguish in such debates between environment/conditioning and choice. I think the former have a significant role, but the latter would be extremely rare. In any event, they are not nearly the same thing. \*\* Yet almost no one doubts that heterosexuality would develop in a child who was raised, somehow, without any knowledge of a sex. This is because it’s understood, quite sensibly, that certain basic survival instincts and sexual drives are inborn. Why is homosexuality _not_ considered inborn? Because of the prejudiced assumption that heterosexuality is the automatic default for which there is not variation, that a species wildly different in appearance – of different hair and eye and skin colours, shapes and sizes of body – will be absolutely identical in these instincts, which are assumed to be passed through the same mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/87 "2003-01-23T19:33:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamish \* > Well, it’s the best I can do given the parametres of **Fuel** ’s OP. I interpreted this as meaning that personal anecdotes and experiences were disallowed: > > \ > > The problem is, of course, that that’s a ridiculous stipulation on a subject so personal. It reduces me to having to quote experts to justify my own experiences. I disagree with you (& others) about the import of personal experiences. Again, compare to other personality aspects. I don’t think we would - or should - accept at face value people’s explanations as to how they derived various aspects of their personality. So that if - for instance - a calm person announces that their serenity derives (or doesn’t derive) from this or that personal experience, I would have some interest in the theory but would prefer to look for scientific studies for more conclusive evidence. No difference here. > [@](#): > > Differences in prevalence? Or differences in _apparent_ prevalence? Given that homosexuality has been repressed in some cultures and tolerated others, and reliable statistics are a very modern invention, we know very little about the precise numbers. Differences in apparent prevalence is all we have to go with. If to the best of our knowledge there were differences, you cannot introduce as evidence your own assumption that actual prevalence differed from the apparent. That would be circular. > [@](#): > > Yet almost no one doubts that heterosexuality would develop in a child who was raised, somehow, without any knowledge of a sex. This is because it’s understood, quite sensibly, that certain basic survival instincts and sexual drives are inborn. Why is homosexuality _not_ considered inborn? Sorry, but I would dispute your first sentence. Homo and heterosexuality are inverses. To the exact same extent that we are debating whether homosexuality is inborn or the result of conditioning, we could debate the same of heterosexuality. And in keeping with my position that both factors are at play with regards to homosexuality, I would maintain that the same is true of heterosexuality. IOW, that there are people who would “naturally” grow up as homosexuals but become hetero due to environmental influences. No difference. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/88 "2003-01-23T19:43:45Z")
**Izzy** , allow me to try a paraphrase of your first paragraph: “While there may be an inborn component to what a person finds him/herself moved or unmoved by, the influence of environment in _how_ one acts out that inborn trait or attitude should not be ignored. For example, a gay person born into a strict conservative household in which gay sex, if mentioned at all, was a sin and an abomination, would fail to act out his sexual impulses and have a different self-image than a gay person raised in an accepting and more broad-minded household. It’s possible that even whether any inherent predisposition to gayness, if such exists, ever becomes evident even as an internal influence on the individual, may be conditioned in this sort of way.” Is that close to what you were saying? > [@](#): > > Sorry, but I would dispute your first sentence. Homo and heterosexuality are inverses. To the exact same extent that we are debating whether homosexuality is inborn or the result of conditioning, we could debate the same of heterosexuality. And in keeping with my position that both factors are at play with regards to homosexuality, I would maintain that the same is true of heterosexuality. IOW, that there are people who would “naturally” grow up as homosexuals but become hetero due to environmental influences. No difference. I think what **Hamish** was going for is that people are naturally inclined to seek sexual pleasure, perhaps through masturbation, and that the idea that seeking after a person of the opposite sex and engaging in sexual congress with that person is “normal” may be the result of early socialization, not an instinctual thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fuel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/89 "2003-01-23T20:02:54Z")
this is the first time i have really wondered about this, hence my rigid hypothesis in the OP. i suspect, after this thread, that indeed there is a large piece of the puzzle being genetics. i do have to say there are a lot more homosexuals being “conditioned” these days, being a more tolerant and acceptable society and all (homosexuals being created because of power of suggestion who otherwise would have lived a fullfilling heterosexual life). but i do have to admit now that there is plenty of evidence to _support_ the genetic, out-of-the-womb homosexual theory. thanks for your replies dopers. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/90 "2003-01-23T20:08:43Z")
> [@](#): > > i do have to say there are a lot more homosexuals being “conditioned” these days, being a more tolerant and acceptable society and all (homosexuals being created because of power of suggestion who otherwise would have lived a fullfilling heterosexual life). In terms of _outward behavior_, you may have a point – but I suspect strongly that most gay posters would react negatively to what you said, speaking instead of _internal orientation_, and saying that they are much happier and living more fulfilled lives as open homosexual people than they would be repressing their desires for gay sex and “living a lie” as overtly-regarded-as-heterosexual people who know, inside, they’re gay. And that “the power of suggestion” has not one thing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/91 "2003-01-23T20:21:30Z")
**Polycarp** - _I think what Hamish was going for is that people are naturally inclined to seek sexual pleasure, perhaps through masturbation,_ I don’t know **Polycarp** , this is pretty hard to misinterpret: **Hamish** -_Yet almost no one doubts that **heterosexuality** would develop in a child who was raised, somehow, without any knowledge of a sex. This is because it’s understood, quite sensibly, that certain basic survival instincts and sexual drives are inborn._ (bold mine) Unless **Hamish** contends that most think of masturbation/pleasure seeking as a hetero-specific trait. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/92 "2003-01-23T20:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*[T]hey are much happier and living more fulfilled lives as open homosexual people than they would be repressing their desires for gay sex and “living a lie” as overtly-regarded-as-heterosexual people who know, inside, they’re gay. \*\* BINGO! ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/93 "2003-01-23T20:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **Izzy** , allow me to try a paraphrase of your first paragraph: > > “While there may be an inborn component to what a person finds him/herself moved or unmoved by, the influence of environment in _how_ one acts out that inborn trait or attitude should not be ignored. For example, a gay person born into a strict conservative household in which gay sex, if mentioned at all, was a sin and an abomination, would fail to act out his sexual impulses and have a different self-image than a gay person raised in an accepting and more broad-minded household. It’s possible that even whether any inherent predisposition to gayness, if such exists, ever becomes evident even as an internal influence on the individual, may be conditioned in this sort of way.” > > Is that close to what you were saying? I don’t know what you mean. Your emphasis on “how one acts out” in your first sentence seems to contradict the “even as an internal influence” in your last. In any event, I don’t see any conection between either of these and my first paragraph, which was about another matter entirely. Unless - on second thought - you are talking about the first paragraph of my response to you this morning. In which case I would clarify that it was intended as a quibble with your wording “contemplated trying out”. I would classify a person’s sexual orientation by what they find (or would find) erotic, not by whatever acts they might have contemplated doing. > [@](#): > > I think what **Hamish** was going for is that people are naturally inclined to seek sexual pleasure, perhaps through masturbation, and that the idea that seeking after a person of the opposite sex and engaging in sexual congress with that person is “normal” may be the result of early socialization, not an instinctual thing. This is actually the exact opposite of what Hamish said. What he said was that just as everyone accepts in the case of heterosexuals that their orientation is inborn, so too should they accept this in the case of homosexuals. To which my response is that I don’t accept this in the case of heteros either. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/94 "2003-01-23T21:03:17Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Fuel** _ > > i do have to say there are a lot more homosexuals being “conditioned” these days, being a more tolerant and acceptable society and all (homosexuals being created because of power of suggestion who otherwise would have lived a fullfilling heterosexual life). Or, more likely, there is exactly the same percentage of the population that is homosexual as there has always been, but centuries-long oppression in western civilization has caused more to hide their true feelings than show them, and now that western society’s attitudes are starting to shift to a more liberal mindset, more are willing to express who they are rather than hide them. Just because you don’t tell anyone you’re gay, or don’t act on your feelings, doesn’t make you not-gay. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Fuel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/95 "2003-01-23T23:45:50Z")
what i was saying is that people who AREN’T born homosexual are choosing to BE homosexual in this society. especially females. i live in a college town and many girls who i know are not gay (they have long term boyfriends who are my friends) are physically attracted to their sex and make out with their sex. i’m not sure to what degree they are attracted, but it’s an attraction that was manufactured by the media and society, i think. also, i am sure alcohol has a big role in this because i have never seen this without the girls being drunk… the point about how homosexuals in the past haven’t declared it but were all along is noted. that is partly responsible for the _perceived_ increase in homosexuality. the other part is people who aren’t naturally gay becoming gay (my point all along). ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/96 "2003-01-24T00:13:21Z")
**Fuel** , my college years are long behind me, and I was a complete prude in those days anyway, but let me throw out one possible explanation for some of the behaviour you’re seeing. I’m about to generalize like mad, and this is very much a WAG, but here goes. To a lot of heterosexual men, the idea of watching two (or more) girls make out is hot, sexy and a generally Good Thing. After all, it’s pretty much a stock scene in porno movies. Two men making out, however, is considered gross and disgusting. (Remember, folks, I’m _generalizing_\*!) Could it be that some of these girls who have boyfriends are making out with women because they know their boyfriends (and other men) think it’s hot, sexy, and a sign that they’re willing to do all sorts of things? As always, if I’m completely off-base, feel free to tell me. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/97 "2003-01-24T00:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fuel \* > > what i was saying is that people who AREN’T born homosexual are choosing to BE homosexual in this society. You’re insane. > [@](#): > > i live in a college town and many girls who i know are not gay (they have long term boyfriends who are my friends) are physically attracted to their sex and make out with their sex. i’m not sure to what degree they are attracted, but it’s an attraction that was manufactured by the media and society, i think. > > also, i am sure alcohol has a big role in this because i have never seen this without the girls being drunk… Oh. My. God. Where do I start? Have you never heard of bisexuality? Have you never heard of the Kinsey Scale? I kissed a girl in high school - does that mean I’m secretly straight? Alcohol lowers inhibitions - you think that’s why they might kiss their girlfriends, cause they’re _drunk_, maybe? Or maybe they’re a little bit bi, and it’s only when their inhibitions are lowered that they’ll act on it? Or that gay people are drunk all the time? Or that all gay people were exposed to the same “media and society” influences that “manufactured” them to be gay? You’re insane. > [@](#): > > the point about how homosexuals in the past haven’t declared it but were all along is noted. that is partly responsible for the _perceived_ increase in homosexuality. the other part is people who aren’t naturally gay becoming gay (my point all along). You’re insane. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Fuel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/98 "2003-01-24T01:27:46Z")
well, i guess i made the mistake of grouping bisexuality with being homosexual. typical mistake for someone who isn’t around homosexuality at all, i hope. it’s essentially very similar, being attracted to the opposite and all, no? NO. i definately have not heard of the kinsey scale. this is the first time i have given this question a real good think. my guess is, those girls would never have done those things or even thought or had the urge to do those things 100 years ago. there was no suggestion back then. the thought/possibity was brought to them by society, maybe even pushed on them in some instances. is it really that insane to propose that someone who was not born heterosexual became intrigued with the idea of homosexuality and went for it because of no other reason than “why not, seems fun, everyone else is doing it and another man could really push my buttons?”. after the first couple of experiences, it could then slowly become a normal thing to this person. please, try and see where i am coming from here. i am a person who has never hung around with gay people and never give gay people a second thought other than they are regular people like me (and some of the men tend to talk a little funny). i am just curious as to how this phenomenon (it is a phenomenon to me) manifests itself. i drew some hasty conclusions in the beginning and have revised my thinking since then, which is the reason i posted this question. try to give me the benefit of the doubt here. ---
**Author:** ![Fuel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fuel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuel)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/99 "2003-01-24T01:29:14Z")
edit: end of first paragraph “being attracted to the _same sex_ and all” ---
**Author:** ![buck8998](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@buck8998](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buck8998)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032/100 "2003-01-24T01:51:39Z")
I believe it is a choice. Just like everything else in life. You choose to be gay. You also choose your religion. You make choices in your life. But I would say that it is conditioned and not genetic. I know that there are experts that go either way on this subject, but this is my view. If it was a genetic flaw, which it would be because that would end that gene line by not reproducing, then it is probably the highest occuring genetic flaw out there. I think it is conditioning in some and in others it is a social problem. I think that some people out there choose to be gay for attention. Who knows, maybe their families didn’t love them enough, or maybe their father wasn’t around. But anyway, no matter what the reason is, it is a choice. You have a choice at most things in life. But I would also like to add that it is the individual person’s choice to make. Now, I don’t believe that homosexuality is right. But I also realize that most people don’t give a rat’s butt what I care about. And I also know that I don’t always do things that others deem right, so no matter what I feel about homosexuality, I can’t say that others are wrong because they agree with it. I know that I have probably angered some people with this, but this is my opinion, you don’t have to agree with me, but don’t come back and tell me I am a bad person for saying this. I have read all the above posts. I might not agree with them, but it is someone’s opinion that they have a right to. I just ask for that courteousy back in return. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-homosexuals-natural-or-conditioned/150032.md?page=6)