# Poll: Is raising pets an acceptable alternative to raising kids? (take two) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949 "2022-01-17T20:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/81 "2022-01-18T22:58:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > there’s a vast gulf between an emotional and a spiritual void I’d say it comes down to the person whether to link emotions with spirituality. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > “spiritual importance of Parenthood” one is discussing obligations, not desires Strong disagree. I think some people desire to become parents (or otherwise feel a need to care for things) and I would say fulfilling that desire can fall into the realm of “spirituality”. It also makes sense to talk of a spiritual obligation to nurture or otherwise care for something, specifically abandoned pets and children. I put this into the polls though, with questions 1 and 2. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/82 "2022-01-18T23:09:48Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I have no need to take care of someone, or thing. Nor does she. […] We take great care of each other and our dogs, but it’s not from some desire to ‘nurture’. Based on this you should vote “Disagree” with questions 2. and 4. For you, questions 1. and 3. are asking whether you think _other_ people have that desire or adopt pets based on it. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/83 "2022-01-18T23:11:34Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > I’m wondering why it is that I can see the votes for questions 1 and 3 but cannot see the votes for questions 2 and 4? I’ve hidden the results for 2. and 4. until the polls close, because seeing those results could impact how you answer questions 1. and 3. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/84 "2022-01-18T23:16:23Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Also, i can imagine someone who really wants to nurture something, but doesn’t want a child, getting a pet to satisfy their desire to nurture. (Not choosing to get a pet instead of a child, but feeling a lack, after choosing not to have a child, and turning to a puppy to help satisfy their nurturing desires.) This is really all I’m getting at. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But i really can’t imagine someone feeling a duty to have children and thinking they can discharge that duty by having pets. Neither can I. (will continue discussion re:Pope in Pit topic) ~Max ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/85 "2022-01-19T01:31:19Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > Cats, dogs, and human children all fall into the same category of “mammals”. Cats, dogs, human children, and fungi all fall into the same category of “multicellular organisms.” Cats, dogs, human children, fungi, businesses, ideas all fall into the same category of “things that can be nutured.” > > You are correct. So what? So saying that they’re all in the category of “things that can be nutured” does not mean that they’re equivalent, or that people are making choices about them as if they were equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/86 "2022-01-20T09:22:22Z")
I don’t know why this had to be so complex. I had a nice anecdote about a childless couple on my street that were carrying their puppy around in a papoose, and anthropomorphizing it in various ways. But it’s a poll of leading questions, and a burden of proof-switched title. Makes me uncomfortable about adding fuel to the fire. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/87 "2022-01-20T12:18:16Z")
The premise is flawed, so the poll is dumb. Much like the Pope’s ignorant remark. There is certainly a class of people, mainly women, who treat their pets, not really like children, but like dolls, and gush gooey-sentimental spew all over them and anyone within range has to endure it. The Fur Baby set. I have always loathed it. Women also do this with BABIES. It is not children that is the equivalent, it is infants. It is sometimes the reason otherwise sane women choose to have a lot of children; it isn’t the children they want, it is the babies. Once they turn into children, the woman wants another baby to baby. You know what is a more accurate comparison? Pets and adult friends. Some people would rather hang out with their dog, cockatiel, cat, or iguana, than with other humans. I know plenty of people like that. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/88 "2022-01-20T12:48:35Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Some people would rather hang out with their dog, cockatiel, cat, or iguana, than with other humans. I know plenty of people like that. Last night we took Kizzy to her second agility class, passing up an offer to get together with friends. I totally understand the feeling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/89 "2022-01-20T13:53:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > If someone genuinely doesn’t have children _because_ they have cats, then they have very little understanding of what raising a child is like. I’d say that’s an accurate statement. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I think it’s much more likely that they don’t have children because _reasons_ But one of the reasons is, they have cats. i.e. that cats fulfill their need to nurture. It’s interesting to me that all the hypothetical conversations people posted afterwards are in the context of couples. These two are very much single. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > A cat would be more appropriate as a replacement flatmate rather than a child, it’s not like you look after them much. You’ve never hung out with real catladies, have you? I spend less on my kids’ medical bills than they do on vet bills. I suspect our meals are sometimes cheaper, too. And they need grooming. These are not moggies picked up from rescue. One is into Norwegian Forest Cats. > [@Max\_S](#): > > IMHO all three questions are _ **equivalent** _ . Naah, the 3rd one is clearly different - you’ve jumped from emotional to spiritual. They are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/90 "2022-01-20T14:00:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And they need grooming. These are not moggies picked up from rescue. One is into Norwegian Forest Cats I’ve had a Siberian forest cat and a Maine coon cat, which are both closely related to Norwegian forest cats. Neither needed to be groomed. I used to brush the coon cat a few times during shedding season, but if i hadn’t, it just would have meant a couple extra hairballs. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/91 "2022-01-20T14:03:09Z")
I don’t think literal “need” comes into it with her. Bad phrasing on my part. To her, they _require_ regular grooming to look their best, just like she “needs” regular haircuts and mani-pedis. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/92 "2022-01-20T14:26:15Z")
Fair enough. My understanding is that Persian cats kind of need to be groomed, or else they turn into a matted mess. In contrast, my long-haired cats groomed themselves. I probably helped the coon cat remove a mat about once a year. I don’t think I ever had to help the Siberian with that. And my understanding is that Norwegians don’t need much grooming, either. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/93 "2022-01-20T15:06:31Z")
She also does cat shows. The other friend is not into taking the cats to parlours, but she does brush them fairly regularly. I think they are Persians, or some other flat-faced long-haired cat. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/94 "2022-01-20T15:26:35Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > You know what is a more accurate comparison? Pets and adult friends. Some people would rather hang out with their dog, cockatiel, cat, or iguana, than with other humans. I know plenty of people like that. This is a good observation. We have a dog in our home. We have kids of our own. None of this was for the joy of nurturing or raising them. Simply put, it’s love and companionship, just the joy of having these loving people and animals in our lives. Quite frankly, the nurturing/rearing part of childraising kids is exhausting and backbreaking work, and sometimes it honestly doesn’t feel like a very good tradeoff. Had I understood how intensely exhausting it is to raise kids (twins), I would have taken a step back and maybe just settled for the dog. Not that the dog is a remotely adequate substitute for my wonderful children, but kids will consume your literal entire life 24x7 for 18 years (or longer) in a way that a dog will not. I will probably get some hate for saying that, but I know many people who have second thoughts about kids after grinding it out for 5, 10, 15 years. If you think babysitting for an evening or a weekend gives you an adequate flavor of what it’s like, I can assure you it does not. There is just something uncanny-valley-esque about the phrasing of this poll. I can’t put my finger on it. It sounds like a robot trying to determine something about human behavior in order to win an argument with other robots about how to properly operate a ranch of humans. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/95 "2022-01-20T15:33:42Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It sounds like a robot trying to determine something about human behavior in order to win an argument with other robots about how to properly operate a ranch of humans. Nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/96 "2022-01-20T15:49:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There is just something uncanny-valley-esque about the phrasing of this poll. I can’t put my finger on it. It sounds like a robot trying to determine something about human behavior in order to win an argument with other robots about how to properly operate a ranch of humans. Yep. char requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/97 "2022-01-20T15:55:28Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > You know what is a more accurate comparison? Pets and adult friends. Some people would rather hang out with their dog, cockatiel, cat, or iguana, than with other humans. I know plenty of people like that. That would be fine except for the fact that you really can’t party with your pets at restaurants and bars. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/98 "2022-01-20T15:59:01Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > That would be fine except for the fact that you really can’t party with your pets at restaurants and bars. LOL There’s lots of things you can’t do with pets that you can do with humans, and vice versa. They aren’t all that similar. But it’s a closer match than the robot fishing expedition. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/99 "2022-01-20T16:13:06Z")
I have a saying about parenting: it isn’t rocket science; it’s just hard fucking work every single day of your life. Most of my friends have kids. In quiet moments (read: drunk), every single one of them has said to me at one point or another, “I love my kids, but if I had it to do over again, I wouldn’t have had them.” Not for nothin’: I’ve never heard anything similar said about pets … There’s another aspect about having kids that may be neither common nor prevalent, but exists: there can be a huge ego component. “I’m going to do a _much_ better job than _my_ parents did,” or “I’m going to raise perfect children. Other people whine and complain, but they simply aren’t me, and it _just isn’t **that** hard_.” Again: I’ve never seen anything particularly equivalent from pet owners. And some people – as, I think, @SmartAleq brought up – there are people who look at that quarter-mil (avg cost to raise a kid to 18) and, instead, see lots of travel, a vacation house, better cars, dining out, etc., etc. Those aren’t “substitutions for” having kids. They’re simply different choices for different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/100 "2022-01-20T16:20:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > A cat would be more appropriate as a replacement flatmate rather than a child, it’s not like you look after them much. You’re joking, right? Cats and other pets are more like children than they are like roommates. I would expect a roommate to pay their share of the rent and clean up after themselves, or at least use the toilet and flush. Kids and cats pull their weight just by existing; you want them, so you take care of them. The caretaking is far less for a cat, but you still need to do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949.md?page=6)