# Poll: Is raising pets an acceptable alternative to raising kids? (take two) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 17, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949 "2022-01-17T20:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/121 "2022-01-20T23:26:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, the take home message seems to be that the pope ain’t too bright? Can’t say I can agree with that–Francis _is_ the first Jesuit pope, and Jesuits are kinda known for their scholarship and debate skills. I’m thinking the dumb ones don’t head down the Jesuit road too often, or get weeded out pretty early. I’ve had kids and I have always had pets, and pets are definitely easier. You don’t have to reason with pets, you can lay down the law and if you’ve raised them well you have a reasonable expectation that they’ll follow it. Yes, even the cats, albeit to a lesser degree than the dogs for sure. Pets live YOUR life WITH you, whereas kids are always on a trajectory toward their OWN lives and that can cause quite a lot of conflict over the years. People who see children as some extension of themselves, over which they can exert their will and guidance, are usually doomed to be very unhappy with the result of the experiment. Dogs and cats are like young kids who never really grow up, yet can manage to look after themselves most of the time. They also sleep a lot, which is not a trait kids have! My critters give me a reason to get up in the morning, give me a reason to have structure and routine in my day, give me an incentive to get out and exercise and amuse me endlessly. Watching my grandkid wrestling two of my dogs on the floor is one of the great pleasures of my life and having my impetuous young dog climb all over me to score points by sticking his tongue in my ear (dog games, so random!) makes me laugh every time he does it. My big sloppy tomcat interrupting Zoom meetings is always good for a laugh, as is his young compatriot cat running around like a maniac in the morning, getting her Thousand Room Dash exercise routines done. KIds and pets are very different experiences that have some common elements but aren’t in complete congruence. I’d say that, overall, pets are easier and give a more consistent ROI than kids do. Kids give you grandkids though, so they win. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/122 "2022-01-20T23:29:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have a cat who has mastered the 'kitten mew" and “sad eyes” to get what he wants. Our previous dachshund did this. I called it “baby seal eyes.” You could literally see his eyes widen as he stared into your face sending “food…food…food…food” mental messages. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/123 "2022-01-21T01:55:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly. I have a cat who has mastered the 'kitten mew" and “sad eyes” to get what he wants. They know when the alarm goes off and jump off the bed and expect a treat… Yeah; but my point is that they don’t want only food. I had a cat once reappear after a months-long absence. I hugged him and got him inside and opened and gave to him an entire can of tuna, not because I didn’t have cat food but as a special treat; and then went to the phone (which was hanging on the wall, this was in the 90’s) to call my mother and tell her he was home. That cat left the tuna to follow me. And it wasn’t for lack of hunger – he chowed down just fine, finished the tuna and ate some kibble on top of it, so long as I was right next to him. I’ve had plenty of other cats, in various ways, make it utterly clear that while they certainly do expect me to feed them they also expect my attention. But again: it’s neither a human child amount of attention all through the day – I can leave them alone all day, no problem – or all of the assorted types of attention that human children need. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/124 "2022-01-21T03:02:55Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve had a Siberian forest cat and a Maine coon cat, which are both closely related to Norwegian forest cats. Neither needed to be groomed. I used to brush the coon cat a few times during shedding season, but if i hadn’t, it just would have meant a couple extra hairballs. Depends on the cat. My Maine Coon, Poe, is either a terrible groomer or simply unlucky because he mats terribly. After trying Cowboy Magic and 5 different kinds of brushes that are supposed to work on mats and getting no appreciable results, I got nice clippers so I can shave them off. I’m hopeful that his grown up coat won’t mat so easily. My last MC didn’t. My Balinese, Linden, needs no grooming from me. I only brush him because he likes it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/125 "2022-01-21T04:14:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Well, the minimal caretaking for a cat is actually nothing at all. Let them out in the wild and they will be fine. Most high-bred cats would be dead in a month. Or more likely living at a neighbour’s 🙂 > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > having cats does fulfil a basic need to “mother” something. That’s all I’m saying. And all _they’re_ saying. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/126 "2022-01-21T04:26:37Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Yeah; but my point is that they don’t want only food. Right often they just want love, skritches, tummy rubs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/127 "2022-01-21T07:09:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s all I’m saying. And all _they’re_ saying. I get that, but that’s different from choosing cats over children. It’s just saying “I don’t have children, but I’m ok, my mothering instincts are satisfied by cats.” I don’t think there’s anything controversial about that sentiment although it doesn’t apply to everyone, it’s not the thrust of the Pope’s statements though. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > You don’t know any cat I’ve ever lived with. Which over 70 years has been a lot of them. > > Children demand an amount of time and attention beyond what cats do, and in addition demand different _types_ of time and attention. (Nobody ever has to have The Talk with a cat, whether it’s about sex or how to behave around the police. Nobody ever has to try to figure out a cat’s homework, or convince their teacher to call on them in class. I could go on for quite a while; parents I’m sure could go on longer.) But cats most certainly demand time and attention; though many of them will demand it only from humans they know well and trust. If they’re feral or semi-feral, they’re getting it from each other. Yours may be semi-feral; or they may just have learned that it’s no good asking you for anything other than food. Don’t get me wrong, I pat the cats and enjoy having them on my lap and so on, I do give them attention, it’s just that if I fail to give them attention they are largely indifferent. They’re not feral or anything, just normal short hair house cats. My partner grooms them occasionally, but if no one groomed them all that would happen is they leave more fur around the house. We do it for us not them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/128 "2022-01-21T07:18:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I get that, but that’s different from choosing cats over children. It’s just saying “I don’t have children, but I’m ok, my mothering instincts are satisfied by cats.” I’m not seeing the distinction you’re drawing here, to be honest. They became cat ladies as post-30s adults (one was in a serious relationship with an allergic person before that, the other was a global traveller), so it’s very much choosing one over the other (or neither). I notice no-one’s objected to the idea that the empty nesters I also mentioned are sublimating _their_ parenting needs in their pets. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > it’s not the thrust of the Pope’s statements though. I wasn’t replying to the Pope, but to t\_l in light of MaxS’s poll as I interpreted the questions. Sure as hell my friends don’t see any damn invented “duty” to have kids… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/129 "2022-01-21T07:29:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m not seeing the distinction you’re drawing here, to be honest. They became cat ladies as post-30s adults, so it’s very much choosing one over the other (or neither). Well I guess there’s no need to choose one over the other, you can have both. I can see having a pet _because_ you don’t have children (whether subconsciously or not), but I don’t see people making a decision to have cats instead of children as if it’s some kind of equivalent choice. To put it another way, if they couldn’t have a cat for some reason, I don’t believe they would then decide to have children after all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/130 "2022-01-21T07:52:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > To put it another way, if they couldn’t have a cat for some reason, I don’t believe they would then decide to have children after all. Aah, I see what you mean. Right, no, I agree, it’s not a two-way equivalency, I don’t see people _not_ having cats and then having children _instead_. No-one goes “Damn my cat allergies. Whelp, babies are hypoallergenic, think I’ll try them, cheaper than a purebred sphinx” ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/131 "2022-01-21T13:01:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Well I guess there’s no need to choose one over the other, you can have both I was gonna say… I had cats before i had children. I had cats while i was rearing children. My children are now adults, and i still have cats. I like cats. And i think of having cats as orthogonal to having kids. Two independent choices. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/132 "2022-01-21T14:02:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And i think of having cats as orthogonal to having kids. Two independent choices. Yup, one doesn’t have a thing to do with the other, unless you’re missing a few cards in your deck. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/133 "2022-01-21T17:19:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > > having cats does fulfil a basic need to “mother” something. > > That’s all I’m saying. And all _they’re_ saying. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > It’s just saying “I don’t have children, but I’m ok, my mothering instincts are satisfied by cats.” And again: not everybody even has “a basic need to mother something.” The strength of that need, in humans, varies all the way from nonexistent to overwhelming; including everything in the middle. People who don’t have it strongly may still want to live with cats, or even to raise children, for other reasons. But not every childless person has a gaping hole in their lives that Must Be Filled With Something. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > > I get that, but that’s different from choosing cats over children. It’s just saying “I don’t have children, but I’m ok, my mothering instincts are satisfied by cats.” > > I’m not seeing the distinction you’re drawing here, to be honest. They became cat ladies as post-30s adults (one was in a serious relationship with an allergic person before that, the other was a global traveller), so it’s very much choosing one over the other (or neither). Looks to me very much as if they’d already chosen not to have children before they got the cats. You really can’t see the distinction between that and choosing between children and cats as if they were equal options? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/134 "2022-01-21T17:24:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I pat the cats and enjoy having them on my lap and so on, I do give them attention, it’s just that if I fail to give them attention they are largely indifferent. For one thing, cats vary considerably. It’s possible you’ve just got weird cats. For another: they may well be fine with no attention at any given time, because they’re confident of getting that attention eventually. Do they ever get on your lap of their own volition, or come sit next to you in a location in which you’re likely to pat them? If so, then they’re not indifferent to whether they get that contact with you. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/135 "2022-01-22T15:20:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And again: not everybody even has “a basic need to mother something.” This reminds me of something written here on I think the SDMB. It was about religion. Person A: I’m not religious. Person B: I can prove you’re religious. Tell me who you pray to. Person A: 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/136 "2022-01-22T23:57:09Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And again: not everybody even has “a basic need to mother something.” The strength of that need, in humans, varies all the way from nonexistent to overwhelming; including everything in the middle. I agree. That was said in the context of Mr Dibble’s cat lady friends. I certainly don’t have cats because of a need to mother something. I probably enjoy them for company more than anything else. Yes I’ve got two kids and a partner in the house, but the cats are non-demanding company, they don’t care what I watch on TV, they don’t complain if I want to play an Xbox game, they don’t ask me what’s for dinner, they don’t demand to go out to a playground on a grotty rainy day. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do they ever get on your lap of their own volition, or come sit next to you in a location in which you’re likely to pat them? If so, then they’re not indifferent to whether they get that contact with you. Yes they do, and yes you’re right they’re not entirely indifferent, but they certainly far more indifferent than children are. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/137 "2022-01-23T20:39:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > they don’t ask me what’s for dinner Right there. That’s the difference between cats and dogs. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/138 "2022-01-23T21:05:39Z")
I dunno, 50% of my cats are perfectly aware what time it is and will loudly and forcibly remind me, via ankle bites, that it is TIME FOR FOODS NOW. The other 50% just dances around when she sees the food bowl coming but will only sit and stare pointedly if I’m not being quick enough about fixing the empty bowl situation. Apparently all my animals have clocks in their tummies. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/139 "2022-01-23T22:10:51Z")
My dog _definitely_ does. It’s uncanny. He’ll be dead asleep on the couch, then, start to wake up at _exactly_ the time he’s due to eat again. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949/140 "2022-01-23T22:23:10Z")
Our cats have food in their bowl all the time. They nibble on it throughout the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-is-raising-pets-an-acceptable-alternative-to-raising-kids-take-two/957949.md?page=8)