# Poll: Most criminal major U.S. politicans (Was: Let's Pit Ralph) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076 "2015-08-27T15:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/21 "2015-08-27T23:13:34Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > I feel like I’m missing something here. In what way does listing the sins of random historical figures constitute a response to **ralph124c**? Until the invention of the technology to slap someone through the internet, this will have to do, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/22 "2015-08-27T23:41:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Until the invention of the technology to slap someone through the internet, this will have to do, apparently. What the world needs is a good 5 cent Slap App. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/23 "2015-08-28T01:38:55Z")
Even with a slap app, Burr is still in the lead, but only if you assume that he actually did anything. [He was aquitted of treason](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr#Conspiracy_and_trial)four times. It sounds like he may have been speculating about the possibility of setting up a new government, west of the new US. But there was no smoking gun, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/24 "2015-08-28T15:08:56Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Even with a slap app, Burr is still in the lead, but only if you assume that he actually did anything. [He was aquitted of treason](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr#Conspiracy_and_trial)four times. It sounds like he may have been speculating about the possibility of setting up a new government, west of the new US. But there was no smoking gun, so to speak. That’s not what Alexander Hamilton said. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/25 "2015-08-28T15:26:14Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Even with a slap app, Burr is still in the lead, but only if you assume that he actually did anything. [He was aquitted of treason](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr#Conspiracy_and_trial)four times. It sounds like he may have been speculating about the possibility of setting up a new government, west of the new US. But there was no smoking gun, so to speak. Well, if were going to accept an acquittal as absolving the politician, then we’ll have to remove the others from the list, too. I don’t recall Clinton being found guilty of perjury, or Cheney for war crimes. Nixon never faced a trial for Watergate (granted, a pardon helped that along). Under a strict definition, I’m not aware of any President that has ever been convicted of a crime. So, maybe Rod Blagojevich? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/26 "2015-08-28T16:15:26Z")
I just consider ralph a moron who has to get his daily jollies mocking liberals because his life is so sad. Every day Hillary is free and walking around is another needle in his eye, so I’m ok with letting reality get back at him ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/27 "2015-08-28T16:56:41Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Tammany Hall. Agreed. The whole state of Louisiana leads the pack in systemic corruption historically. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/28 "2015-08-28T17:22:18Z")
I apologize for an OP that is confused in several ways: blame a mild(?) form of schizophrenia from which I sometimes think I suffer. But let me clarify. First of all, you become criminal when you rob a bank, not when a jury finds you guilty of it. Whether Bill Clinton was in fact a perjurer does not depend on whether he was convicted or not. But I didn’t really mean “criminal” – I meant “despicable.” Which major politician(s) “should” morally have been made to suffer in prison? I never thought Jefferson was particularly “criminal” – I just wanted to present some initial nominations to get the ball rolling. Dick Cheney would probably get my vote, but cases could be made that Nixon and a few others also “deserved” to spend time in prison. My real point, of course, is that with all the criminal politicians to choose from it’s very silly to put so much emphasis on the alleged minor crimes of the Clintons. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/29 "2015-08-28T17:25:52Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > In the absence of an actual, you know, statute, I move for dismissal of the statutory rape charge against Thomas Jefferson. You might make a case for rape-rape. Was it possible to rape a slave? I mean, they couldn’t consent, but they were property so they didn’t have to. Obviously I am not addressing the moral wrong here, lest anyone get the wrong idea that I think it was okay for Jefferson to rape his slaves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/30 "2015-08-28T17:47:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Was it possible to rape a slave? I mean, they couldn’t consent, but they were property so they didn’t have to. Obviously I am not addressing the moral wrong here, lest anyone get the wrong idea that I think it was okay for Jefferson to rape his slaves. Anti-miscegenation laws? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/31 "2015-08-28T17:58:52Z")
Antimiscegenation laws typically only prohibited marriage rather than sex (so you really want fornication, which may or may not have been a crime in Virginia at that time). They were mostly adopted in the wake of Reconstruction, though some of the original colonies had them on the books as extensions of slavery laws. Virginia’s Racial Integrity Act was adopted in 1824. The prior antimiscegenation law seems to have prohibited only the marriages of white _females_ and nonwhites. I can’t find the text at the moment so I’m not sure about that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/32 "2015-08-28T18:04:53Z")
Right now we presume people to be innocent until their guilt is proven. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/33 "2015-08-28T20:50:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite? I had never heard that slaves were legally minors. And in 1875, while each state had its own laws, I can’t find a single state in which the age of consent of was over 12. Jefferson probably started having sex with Sally Hemings when he was ambassador to France, when she was 14, or after his return to Virginia, when she was 16. In 1832 the age of consent in France was set at 11, and in the 1780s the age of consent for girls in Virginia was 12. My great-grandmother married my great-grandfather when she was 15 and he was 25. I don’t think he was committing statutory rape (or any kind of rape) back then because the age of consent in New York today is 17. Without speaking to the morality of Jefferson’s relationship with Hemings, nothing he did was a criminal offense according to the law at the time. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/34 "2015-08-30T16:43:02Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Agreed. > > The whole state of Louisiana leads the pack in systemic corruption historically. You understand that TH was in NYC right? ---
**Author:** ![IDtenT\_Error](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@IDtenT\_Error](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IDtenT_Error)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/35 "2015-08-30T18:25:55Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Also, let’s not forget Aaron Burr (VP under Jefferson). He killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel, and dueling was illegal by then. I’ve been lurking here for a while, but this is the first thing I’ve just _got_ to sign up for and respond to. Dueling was illegal in NY, where the challenge was made and accepted, which is why they crossed the river into NJ to do it. It was still legal in NJ at the time. The only legal question at the time was whether or not NY law or Federal law made crossing state lines to do something illegal in the original state would still apply to the duel. The issue was never brought to, nor tried in court at the time, so it’s _still_ questionable whether or not a crime occurred. By some legal theories, Burr was guilty of NYS murder. By others, he wasn’t guilty of any thing at all. It was that legal ambiguity that hounded him for the rest of his life. Sorry. I’m an Aaron Burr fan. I couldn’t let that rest. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076/36 "2015-08-30T19:56:31Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Agreed. > > The whole state of Louisiana leads the pack in systemic corruption historically. Illinois has got to be in the running for this also. Didn’t they nickname the State Pen, “The Governor’s Mansion”? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poll-most-criminal-major-u-s-politicans-was-lets-pit-ralph/729076.md?page=1)