# Polyamorous couples with kids **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 4, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344 "2006-09-04T00:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/121 "2006-09-07T20:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hamadryad] How many people now have you accused of seeing everything in black and white? It’s like a weird posting-related Tourette’s. [/QUOTE] You tell me. How many? Really. Tell me. How many? Go back and count them. Put up or shut up. [QUOTE=Kalhoun] You came off as being against poly relationships. Why would we get that impression if that isn’t what you wanted people to hear? [/QUOTE] I have no idea. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that people have responded to a perceived tone rather than the actual content of my posts. I cannot be reponsible for the vagaries of the human mind. Why is\*\* Lightnin’\*\* still insisting that my argument is that all poly relationships are bad, despite no evidence to support that assertion, and plenty to contradict it? Would you care to guess what my very first words in this thread were? Let me show you. – \*Polyamorosity is not for me, but I am in no position to condemn it. \*That was my **opening statement.** _You_ tell \*me \*why people have jumped in my shit. I suspect it’s because, for one reason or another, they cannot be bothered to take the time to do a close reading. > [@](#): > > Are you saying you have no opinion one way or another? No. > [@](#): > > The whole IF argument could have been left out of the discussion altogether if you weren’t trying to say you thought that poly relationships were bad for children in general. IFs are a part of everyday life. B does not follow from A, at least without further explication. When I was called deliberately stupid, where were you to insist that such an assertion was unnecessary? How did that advance the dialogue? Surely that could have been leftout of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/122 "2006-09-07T20:52:51Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You tell me. How many? Really. Tell me. How many? Go back and count them. Put up or shut up. I have no idea. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that people have responded to a perceived tone rather than the actual content of my posts. I cannot be reponsible for the vagaries of the human mind. Why is\*\* Lightnin’\*\* still insisting that my argument is that all poly relationships are bad, despite no evidence to support that assertion, and plenty to contradict it? Would you care to guess what my very first words in this thread were? Let me show you. – \*Polyamorosity is not for me, but I am in no position to condemn it. \*That was my **opening statement.** _You_ tell \*me \*why people have jumped in my shit. I suspect it’s because, for one reason or another, they cannot be bothered to take the time to do a close reading. No. B does not follow from A, at least without further explication. When I was called deliberately stupid, where were you to insist that such an assertion was unnecessary? How did that advance the dialogue? Surely that could have been leftout of the discussion. [/QUOTE] Look, I am trying to maintain a civil tone here. If someone else pissed you off, take it up with them. I still don’t understand what you’re saying. What exactly do you mean by “B does not follow from A, at least without further explication.”? You haven’t been clear in YOUR FEELINGS on the subject. You’ve talked a bit about debate tactics, but I still have no idea what your feelings are on poly relationships involving kids. Nearly everyone in the thread got the impression you feel poly relationships are bad for children. You said IF it’s bad for children then you’re against it. Well, _yeah_. I think that’s overstating the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/123 "2006-09-07T21:03:01Z")
No completely reliable research either pro or con. Interestingly enough, I found a pro poly site, that brought up many, many drawbacks. > **[PolyFamilies:Polyamory for the Practical](http://www.polyfamilies.com/polydrawbacks.html)** > > PolyFamilies: Polyamory is not for the faint of heart and should be approached with open eyes.   Check out the drawbacks, so you can have a balanced view. Noting the tone of the thread, it seems that if anyone dares make the assertion that _perhaps_ poly isn’t an ideal, and that there \*might \* be potential problems, the poster must be an intolerant, hateful SOB. And I still make the assertion that detrimental or not to the children, polyamory is primarily for the benefit of the adult. Selfish behavior on their part, and a little more of an impact on people’s lives than say, oh, I don’t know, rollerskating. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/124 "2006-09-07T21:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] And I still make the assertion that detrimental or not to the children, polyamory is primarily for the benefit of the adult. Selfish behavior on their part, and a little more of an impact on people’s lives than say, oh, I don’t know, rollerskating. [/QUOTE] And I say, _so what?_ What’s wrong with it being primarily for the benefit of the parents if it’s not detrimental to the kids? What difference could it possibly make to you if the parents are finding joy in life independent of their children? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/125 "2006-09-07T21:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] No, you _said_ that, you did not _do_ that. To do it would require an anlaysis of the argument, not a knee-jerk reaction. Really, just find one argument I have made and show why it is what you say it is. The thread is not so large that you would be too terribly burdened. Just find one, or be quiet about it. [/QUOTE] Okay, so YOU tell us what the hell you’re arguing, 'cause I sure can’t figure it out. [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Are you speaking for _everyone_ now? Did I say _everyone_ had insulted me? Are you even capable of understanding concepts that are nuanced, that exist somewhere between _everywhere_ and _nowhere_? Is it not possible to disagree with you in the slightest without being completely wrong about _everything_? [/QUOTE] Oh, you poor martyr, you. Did I say that you said _everyone_ had insulted you? Are YOU capable of understanding nuanced concepts? Hey, this is kinda fun. Why bother debating, when you can just nitpick the argument to death? [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Find one instance of me saying that a poly lifestyle is bad, or stop pestering me. [/QUOTE] “They seem like self-indulgent people to me. There are more important issues in the world than their own pleasure.” ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/126 "2006-09-07T21:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] And I say, _so what?_ What’s wrong with it being primarily for the benefit of the parents if it’s not detrimental to the kids? What difference could it possibly make to you if the parents are finding joy in life independent of their children? [/QUOTE] Well, if you read the link **dahfisheroo** provided, the “drawbacks” listed are of much, much graver possible consequence than anything that might happen rollerskating. The site lists: losing family, your kids, your job, your friends, your mates, etc. This lifestyle is not protected by the law in any way that I can see. It is not outside of the realm of possibility that it could explode into a thousand pieces, MUCH to the detriment of the children. A possible scenario which involves “on-the-side” relationships: One of the spouses decides that he or she doesn’t like the poly lifestyle anymore. He or she sues for divorce, and the kids are put in foster care due to a perception that the household and/or the parents are unstable or unsuitable by a judge. Another possible scenario involving “living as a family unit” relationships: There is a poly family (let’s say, a married couple and another woman), the woman is very attached to the children, and they to her, even though they are biologically the married couples’. The couple decides that they are not interested in maintaining the relationship with her, and kick her out. She was not married and is not the legal parent of the children, and therefore has not a legal leg to stand on in terms of ever seeing the kids again. She & the kids are devastated, but have no choice in the matter. Likewise, she could just choose to move on, and the couple have no recourse, because there is no legal tie, and again the children are devastated by the loss. Of course, if a parent is a responsible one, they will be cautious not to let these situations happen. But I hardly think it’s just like roller skating…just another way for a parent to have some fun…and not something that has to be taken very, very seriously and cautiously. One other way it is not like roller skating is that when a parent goes out to have other love relationships, it is not just taking up time, it is taking up emotional energy. I don’t know how much other people have in comparison to me, but sometimes I have trouble keeping up the drive to give myself just to my family, never mind maintaining other relationships as well. Friends will usually forgive you for neglecting them when these tough times come…but will a lover? And what happens then, when they are demanding time & attention? If the relationship is at all important to a person, I would not be surprised if they would work to maintain it, even at the expense of their family. So, sure, like any activity, it doesn’t matter if it never affects the children. But the possibility that it might, and in such devastating ways, makes me think that it might be a desire that should be put aside when there are children involved. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/127 "2006-09-07T21:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You tell me. How many? Really. Tell me. How many? Go back and count them. Put up or shut up. [/QUOTE] - False dichotomy. Are those the only two choices? - This is called a false dichotomy. Are those my only two choices? - Boy. You guys are way keen on those false dichotomies. Although none of those quotes specifically state “you are seeing things in black and white,” it is implied that those are the only two options the poster (other than YOU, of course) has thought of or left room for. Then with > [@](#): > > Are you speaking for everyone now? Did I say everyone had insulted me? Are you even capable of understanding concepts that are nuanced, that exist somewhere between everywhere and nowhere? Is it not possible to disagree with you in the slightest without being completely wrong about everything? …you’re doing the same thing - implying that the person to whom you are replying thinks it’s all or nothing. No one in this thread has ever said that. As far as saying “poly is bad, mmkay?” no, you haven’t. However, your statements lead a casual reader to that conclusion. > [@](#): > > However, if some other guy were disciplining my kid we would be having a good old fashioned prayer meeting. IMHO, your polyamorous rights end where consideration for the children begins. Which implies that giving another adult authority over the children is a Bad Thing. > [@](#): > > He isn’t a legal step-parent, is he? I, mean, they are not married, and the natural father is still in the home. A bit different from the millions of other step-parents you refer to. > I would deeply resent someone telling me what to do who more or less just came into my life with the status of ‘father.’ To me, this is where polyamorous arrangements become self-indulgent. If the children are unaffected, I say more power to 'em. That could be quite a large ‘if.’ The implication, particularly with the Pretty Big IF, is that the children will be effected. Also, you deliberately misunderstood the point being made about a step-parent being another adult with whom a parent can become sexually involved, and also give authority over the children without the child’s consent or approval. > [@](#): > > That’s just it. The child did not sign up for it. Why did this father abdicate his reponsibility? > If it had happened to me I would have left home. It’s tough enough to be a teenager as it is. Now New Guy has moved into your house, is screwing your mother, and coming down harder on you than your father? The needs of the children should be foremost, IMHO. Worded in a way which implies that New Guy is automatically a Bad Thing. Also, insults the heck out of **WhyNot** ’s husband with the word “abdicate,” which implies a deliberate surrender. > [@](#): > > The children had no choice in this new relationship. It did not come about because of a failed relationship. Having children should involve a sense of responsibility that puts personal gratification way behind the welfare of he child. The child in questioning is struggling with the new status quo, specifically the new “father,” which is reason enough question the judgement of the adults involved. > They seem like self-indulgent people to me. There are more important issues in the world than their own pleasure. Implies that people who are in poly relationships should have their judgement questioned. And that they think only about their own pleasure, and never the children. Oooo, isn’t that a FALSE DICHOTOMY? > [@](#): > > Let me think of a couple of other examples that fit the divorce/poly criteria. > \*Your mother and her brother killed her husband for the money and are having an incestuous relationship. > \*A serial killer/rapist has taken you both hostage. Chose examples which compare a polyamorous family with incest, kidnapping, rape and murder. If you don’t understand how one could take that as a clue that you are against polyamory, then I don’t think you’re in touch with reality. > [@](#): > > I am very against anything that sacrifices the needs of the child to the needs of the parents. > [@](#): > > The needs of the children supersede the needs of the parents. Both of which imply that the needs of the children are, in this type of situation, not being met. > [@](#): > > Sex never entered the picture. I was, and still am, very attracted to one of the women. She is bi-sexual. Theoretically, sex between us is a possibility, yet it was never a condition of my support for those kids. > The needs of the children supersede the needs of the parents. You fail to mention which of the child’s needs are not being met if you HAD had sex with her. Also: > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I said ‘if it is bad for the child.’ Not ‘if the child is unhappy.’ Not ‘if the child is uncomfortable.’ Not ‘if the child is anxious.’ > > > [@Hamadryad](#): > > > > Okay, what is BAD for the child, if it is not unhappiness, uncomfortableness, anxiety, fear of familial instability, or any of the other outcomes I mentioned? You never answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/128 "2006-09-07T21:43:06Z")
Kalhoun, look at the link I just gave, please. This is a pro poly site, and there are very severe repercussions that can happen that they mention. That’s my problem with children and poly. If everyone is a consenting adult, well, that’s on them. However, that isn’t what we are discussing. As a responsible parent we try to minimize negative outcomes for our children. I have given two links now that make the case that poly \*may not \* be such an utopian ideal. " What difference could it possibly make to you if the parents are finding joy in life independent of their children?" Well, actually it makes no difference to me, I’ll just keep plodding along in my little life. I just felt that someone should throw out the absolutely scandalous idea that to have a sequence of strangers parade through children’s lives and homes, only because of their desirablility of a romantic nature to the parent(s), might be problematic in the children’s life. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to find, woo, and develop serial emotional relationships. Seems like a common sense point to me. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/129 "2006-09-07T21:43:38Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Look, I am trying to maintain a civil tone here. If someone else pissed you off, take it up with them. [/QUOTE] A civil tone is important. I simply wonder why you choose me to point out in your campaign against unneccessary statements. > [@](#): > > I still don’t understand what you’re saying. What exactly do you mean by “B does not follow from A, at least without further explication.”? This is your statement – \*The whole IF argument could have been left out of the discussion altogether if you weren’t trying to say you thought that poly relationships were bad for children in general.\*Lets’s turn it around into the form of a syllogism. _If you weren’t trying to say that poly relationships were bad for children in general, then the whole IF argument could have been left out of the discussion altogether._ What you have is a premise. To complete it you need supporting evidence. Simply stating that my input was unnecessary is insufficient to prove it. You have an opinion. Cool. So do I. Without support (further explication) one opinion is as good as another. > [@](#): > > You haven’t been clear in YOUR FEELINGS on the subject. You’ve talked a bit about debate tactics, but I still have no idea what your feelings are on poly relationships involving kids. So what? What do my feelings matter? For the record, these are my comments concerning poly arrangements. If you can extract a blanket condemnation of them, I would like to see it. [QUOTE=Me] I would deeply resent someone telling me what to do who more or less just came into my life with the status of ‘father.’ To me, this is where polyamorous arrangements become self-indulgent. If the children are unaffected, I say more power to 'em. That could be quite a large ‘if.’ [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Me] If it had happened to me I would have left home. It’s tough enough to be a teenager as it is. Now New Guy has moved into your house, is screwing your mother, and coming down harder on you than your father? The needs of the children should be foremost, IMHO. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Me] I don’t care one way or another what consenting adults do with their sex lives. Children change the equation. If you think that a nine year old and an eleven year old are knowledgable and mature enough to hold their own in a discussion of this magnitude then I suggest that you have an eccentric grasp on things. Was “no” one of her options? If not, it was not a negotioation, or a discussion. It was an executive order. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lightnin’] Okay, so YOU tell us what the hell you’re arguing, 'cause I sure can’t figure it out. [/QUOTE] Then you should think twice before bandying about such gems as this – \*I suspect that Contrapuntal’s entire argument can realistically be boiled down to “I don’t like polyamory, and I will brook no argument that it should be allowed”. \*You only embarass yourself. > [@](#): > > “They seem like self-indulgent people to me. There are more important issues in the world than their own pleasure.” Yes. Those are my words. Congratulations. Now all you have to do is show where those words say the relationship is bad, and then somehow extrapolate that into a statement about _all_ poly relationships. Happy hunting! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/130 "2006-09-07T21:51:15Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Well, if you read the link **dahfisheroo** provided, the “drawbacks” listed are of much, much graver possible consequence than anything that might happen rollerskating. The site lists: losing family, your kids, your job, your friends, your mates, etc. This lifestyle is not protected by the law in any way that I can see. It is not outside of the realm of possibility that it could explode into a thousand pieces, MUCH to the detriment of the children. A possible scenario which involves “on-the-side” relationships: One of the spouses decides that he or she doesn’t like the poly lifestyle anymore. He or she sues for divorce, and the kids are put in foster care due to a perception that the household and/or the parents are unstable or unsuitable by a judge. Another possible scenario involving “living as a family unit” relationships: There is a poly family (let’s say, a married couple and another woman), the woman is very attached to the children, and they to her, even though they are biologically the married couples’. The couple decides that they are not interested in maintaining the relationship with her, and kick her out. She was not married and is not the legal parent of the children, and therefore has not a legal leg to stand on in terms of ever seeing the kids again. She & the kids are devastated, but have no choice in the matter. Likewise, she could just choose to move on, and the couple have no recourse, because there is no legal tie, and again the children are devastated by the loss. Of course, if a parent is a responsible one, they will be cautious not to let these situations happen. But I hardly think it’s just like roller skating…just another way for a parent to have some fun…and not something that has to be taken very, very seriously and cautiously. One other way it is not like roller skating is that when a parent goes out to have other love relationships, it is not just taking up time, it is taking up emotional energy. I don’t know how much other people have in comparison to me, but sometimes I have trouble keeping up the drive to give myself just to my family, never mind maintaining other relationships as well. Friends will usually forgive you for neglecting them when these tough times come…but will a lover? And what happens then, when they are demanding time & attention? If the relationship is at all important to a person, I would not be surprised if they would work to maintain it, even at the expense of their family. So, sure, like any activity, it doesn’t matter if it never affects the children. But the possibility that it might, and in such devastating ways, makes me think that it might be a desire that should be put aside when there are children involved. [/QUOTE] Woulda, shoulda, coulda…all the things you mentioned could happen with divorced parents and step parents, or love interests of the parents even if they don’t marry. Life is risky. I don’t believe any supporters of poly relationships likened it to rollerskating. If you don’t characterize all relationships that way, it’s pretty shitty to do it for a serious life choice that people are successfully living every day. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/131 "2006-09-07T21:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] I just felt that someone should throw out the absolutely scandalous idea that to have a sequence of strangers parade through children’s lives and homes, only because of their desirablility of a romantic nature to the parent(s), might be problematic in the children’s life. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to find, woo, and develop serial emotional relationships. Seems like a common sense point to me. [/QUOTE] I don’t think anyone has said that poly relationships are for everyone, or that children CAN’T be harmed emotionally in a poly relationship. I don’t know why people are acting as though no one has considered this. Also, I have no idea what you picture when you think “polyamory,” but I assure you, it does not in any way resemble “a sequence of strangers parad{ing} through children’s lives and homes.” ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/132 "2006-09-07T21:54:41Z")
Originally posted by lokij "My wife likes to roller skate and has joined the local Roller Derby league, that takes time, energy and effort. I suppose I should tell her to stop being so selfish and spend that time with her kids. Or… I could possibly acknowledge that there are things apart from the kids worth doing for her own well being… and that her well being contributes directly to the kind of positive effort, time and energy she is able to put into out children. In otherwords she gets to spend time, energy and effort as a happy and well rounded human being instead of some kind of maternal slave. I know which I’d rather have for my daughter both as a mother and example of womanhood. " ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/133 "2006-09-07T21:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Woulda, shoulda, coulda…all the things you mentioned could happen with divorced parents and step parents, or love interests of the parents even if they don’t marry. Life is risky. [/QUOTE] True. Which is why I don’t believe in divorce. And if I ever find myself the unfortunate & unwilling recipient of a no-fault divorce, I would not remarry until the kids are grown & gone. I think there are some sacrifices worth making in order not to bring undue hardship & trauma onto children. In addition, marriages & parenthood at least have some protection in the law, so legal parents are not likely to never see their kids again unless there is a darn good reason. Not so much for people who are standing in as parents but do not have legal ties. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe any supporters of poly relationships likened it to rollerskating. If you don’t characterize all relationships that way, it’s pretty shitty to do it for a serious life choice that people are successfully living every day. Actually, **Lokij** did in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7752720&postcount=108). Who is shitty now? ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/134 "2006-09-07T21:59:10Z")
Enlighten me Hamadryad. I am not being snarky when I say that either. Enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/135 "2006-09-07T22:04:39Z")
**dafisheroo** , I’ve looked at that site, and I think the list is a good one. I abosolutely agree with you that parents - all parents, mono, poly or single - need to consider the welfare of their children. I also agree with \*\*Contrapunctual \*\*that IF a relationship, set of relationships or lack of a relationship is harming children, then it should be discontinued under most circumstances. I think where we’ve been disagreeing is not on that as theory, but in the specifics of the few cases I personally know of. His opinion is (or was) that my friends’ situation could be harming the older daughter, and I know the situation well enough to feel it is not. We don’t disagree in theory, only whether or not the theory applies in this example. I further think that nearly everything on that list is a legal matter, not a poly matter. That is, if the laws provided some way for us to acknowledge more than two legal parents with obligations to the children, many of those problems become no more than the problems in mono-divorce. Child care, child support, child visitation, etc. \*could \*all be legally bound to be handled as they already are, only with different percentages of time and money involved. In addition, every single one of those things can be said of gay relationships and of hetero monogamy, with the possible exception of “you could lose your property” in a hetero monogamous marriage (and even that’s possible, or prenups wouldn’t exist). All of those things should be considered when you consider having a relationship with _anyone_, no matter your orientation or number. Again, I’m not saying they’re not possible in poly relationships, I’m saying none of them are EXCLUSIVE to poly relationships. It sort of annoys me that a pro-poly site doesn’t point that out, and I’ll email them shortly about that. Again again, I’m not saying we poly folks are excused from careful consideration about our children, our love lives and/or marriages. Of course we need to be careful. But so do you, whoever you are. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/136 "2006-09-07T22:05:14Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] Enlighten me Hamadryad. I am not being snarky when I say that either. Enlighten me. [/QUOTE] I have not seen many poly relationships. The ones I **have** seen involve a family friend who comes around a lot, is friends with the family, gets along all right with the kids, and eventually moves in. This does not, in my opinion, bear comparison to a sequence of strangers parading through the house. Also, people keep saying that they wouldn’t give another adult authority over their kids. Especially in their own HOUSE. Well, when another mother comes over to visit, with her kids, she gets some authority over my kids and I get some over hers. I can tell them to wash their hands before they come to the table, and she can tell them not to play in the giant mud puddle at the end of the driveway. And somehow, the kids all seem fine with this. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/137 "2006-09-07T22:07:36Z")
[QUOTE=dahfisheroo] Kalhoun, look at the link I just gave, please. This is a pro poly site, and there are very severe repercussions that can happen that they mention. That’s my problem with children and poly. If everyone is a consenting adult, well, that’s on them. However, that isn’t what we are discussing. As a responsible parent we try to minimize negative outcomes for our children. I have given two links now that make the case that poly \*may not \* be such an utopian ideal. " What difference could it possibly make to you if the parents are finding joy in life independent of their children?" Well, actually it makes no difference to me, I’ll just keep plodding along in my little life. I just felt that someone should throw out the absolutely scandalous idea that to have a sequence of strangers parade through children’s lives and homes, only because of their desirablility of a romantic nature to the parent(s), might be problematic in the children’s life. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to find, woo, and develop serial emotional relationships. Seems like a common sense point to me. [/QUOTE] Okay, I’m not even going to continue discussing this with you, as you are ignoring the fact that all the poly people who contributed to the thread said they aren’t PARADING anyone anywhere. And you have yet to prove that any of the downfalls of a poly relationship couldn’t also happen in a traditional family. > [@](#): > > You can lose your family. > > I know, there are plenty that would say, “No great loss if my relatives cannot accept me.” And for them, it may be no big deal. Other people who are close to their relatives, should keep this in mind. How many people have lost their family because mom and dad didn’t like their spouse? > [@](#): > > You can lose your kids. > > In Tennessee, a judge has ruled that a polyamorous marriage is by definition a bad environment for children. He admitted no testimony from psychologists who examined the child and found her healthy. Remember, in a family law case, a judge can rule according to personal taste unless there is a specific law against that situation. There’s lots I do that the government doesn’t know about. If I lived in Tennessee, I’d be extra careful to keep it quiet. Or you could maintain a poly relationship without sharing a home. > [@](#): > > You can lose friends. > > Granted, I question the value of a friendship that will not accept new spice, but… It can and does happen. I lost a good friend once. She accepted too much “new spice” from the ex. Oh well. > [@](#): > > You can lose your job. > > While a company would have a hard time getting away with firing someone for “sexual deviance”, if a boss disapproves badly enough, another excuse can be found to fire you. I’ll be sure to continue to not share the details of my sex life with the folks I work with. > [@](#): > > You wind up either doing everything by committee or giving in to one person’s direction. > > In a poly family, there are more needs and desires to be considered. This means that you simply can’t “go your own way”. (This is not meant to discuss poly relationships in which people do not live together or consider themselves married. That is another matter, entirely). Unless everyone is giving in to one person – a very unhealthy way to do things, there’s a lot of discussion going on. Sounds like every family dynamic I’ve ever been a part of. > [@](#): > > You can lose your property. > > Poly relationships do not have the automatic protections that a marriage does. You want to protect your property, you have to draw up a contract yourself. Go do it now. Make a will, too. Uh, yeah. Non-issue. > [@](#): > > You can lose your mate/s > > It is not unheard of for a poly family to fall apart, leaving one person holding the bag (and/or the kids), or losing everything, including the kids. I am sorry to say that I have heard more horror stories than otherwise in poly families. Guys, while you might be in love and want to be together, do remember that this is dangerous as hell. Make no mistake about it. Nothing different from a traditional family here. I’m living proof of that. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/138 "2006-09-07T22:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] True. Which is why I don’t believe in divorce. And if I ever find myself the unfortunate & unwilling recipient of a no-fault divorce, I would not remarry until the kids are grown & gone. I think there are some sacrifices worth making in order not to bring undue hardship & trauma onto children. In addition, marriages & parenthood at least have some protection in the law, so legal parents are not likely to never see their kids again unless there is a darn good reason. Not so much for people who are standing in as parents but do not have legal ties. Actually, **Lokij** did in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7752720&postcount=108). Who is shitty now? [/QUOTE] I never said you were shitty. I said IT’S shitty. You used the analogy. You can take a little part of the blame, can’t you? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/139 "2006-09-07T22:22:56Z")
Well, that’s disappointing. I had an email all written, but their linky no worky. All the copyrights are 2004, so maybe no one’s tending the site anymore. Well hell. I’ll post it here, just so the effort isn’t wasted. And if anyone finds a way to contact them, let me know and I’ll copy and paste this on. 😃 > [@](#): > > Hello everyone. Overall, great site! Thanks for all the work (and fun, I’m sure there was a little fun involved.) > > What brings me here today is a page of yours that was linked to in a poly family debate on another messageboard. An anti-poly person linked to your “Poly Drawbacks” page to “proove” the difficulties and dangers to our kids that we are exposing our children to as members of a poly family. > > Several people, including myself, pointed out that while accurate, the list could also apply to any gay relationship, as well as any hetero-mono marriage as it stands in the US. Furthermore, many of the points (2,4,6) are not so much “poly” issues as legal issues. If we changed the laws in our country so that they recognize more than two “parents”, then poly parents would be just as legally and financially responsible, and have legal rights of visitation, as monogomous parents. They would also share identical rights and responsibilities in the event of separation and divorce. > > In short, while you’ve made an excellent list of concerns that poly folks should be aware of, none of the items are _exclusive_ or _inherent_ to polyamory. > > Maybe a new note on the page is in order? Just a thought. > > Keep up the good work! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344/140 "2006-09-07T22:26:51Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Well, that’s disappointing. I had an email all written, but their linky no worky. All the copyrights are 2004, so maybe no one’s tending the site anymore. Well hell. I’ll post it here, just so the effort isn’t wasted. And if anyone finds a way to contact them, let me know and I’ll copy and paste this on. 😃 [/QUOTE] Nice letter…now if only we could find 'em! (They’re probably in hiding, based on their list! ;)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polyamorous-couples-with-kids/371344.md?page=8)