# Polycarp did you forget to take you pills? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640 "2003-12-03T03:54:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/241 "2003-12-04T20:39:29Z")
Operating under the assumption that I am still able to grok from **Poly** ’s words what he means while others miss the point: > [@](#): > > 1. I have a hunch that I know the identity of the person who will fulfill the role in our time. It results from some things I read on his no-longer-extant website, conclusions as to his identity from what he did and did not say, and a couple of convictions which my wife or I have had as to what will be the result of his acting as he implied he would. > > I did not claim that this person is the Second Coming – only that my hunch, my speculation was that he’d be the person to fill that role. I intentionally did not put a name to him, as I believe that he deserves to maintain his anonymity until he is ready to act, whenever that may be – and, as noted, his surname would identify precisely who he is to almost every American. He is himself not famous. I plan to do another post that tells virtually everything I know about him and his companion. My guess is that **Poly** meant but did not say this: > [@](#): > > If the messiah is already born, already living on this planet, then I believe this person I know is the person to do what the messiah would do. As such, if we operate under the premise that the messiah is not yet among us/whatever, **Polycarp** ’s conclusion is invalid because its premise is not yet met. So I think what he’s saying (though I can think of more than a few people who will dismiss this as nothing more than my being a **Polycarp** apologist) is that IF the messiah is already here on Earth, THEN **Poly** thinks he knows who is going to fill that role. And IF the Messiah is not already here on Earth, THEN the rest of the relevant part of **Poly** ’s post is to be tossed out the window. I will leave the furious (in terms of speed, not anger) construction of strawmen to a fisher of men. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/242 "2003-12-04T20:43:05Z")
**minty** , I guess I’ll just agree to disagree. I find it unremarkable for someone who looks for and expects the imminent arrival of a supernatural being to suspect he may have spotted that being. If I’m calling the _expectation_ normal, IMO it’s loopy for me to greet the _suspicion_ with dismay. I’ll ask for the reasoning behind that suspicion, but I won’t wonder at its existence. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/243 "2003-12-04T20:46:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*I’ve got two bucks on that horse, just in case. The odds are long but what a payoff! And if he’s wrong I’m just out $2. 😉 \*\* Yeah, worshiping Justin Timberlake is a bit wierd, but it’s better to hedge your bets _just in case . . ._ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/244 "2003-12-04T20:52:28Z")
And of course, no one seems to be positing that **Poly** made his “revelation” solely to push this discussion to five pages and make a point. **Polycarp** is very compassionate, gentle, and loving. He’s also a very sharp old coot. Do not underestimate his sneakiness just because he’s got a reputation for being the Christian equivalent of fuzzy-bunny pagans… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/245 "2003-12-04T20:59:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Left Hand of Dorkness \* > \*\ ***Una** , my apologies if I wasn’t being clear: while I was making my own point, I do agree with what you said. > > Daniel \*\* Thank you for clarifying - I just wanted to make sure that I hadn’t posted a message that was unclear or misunderstood. I don’t need a 5-page Pit thread all for myself… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/246 "2003-12-04T21:07:39Z")
Poly said, “3. I have a hunch that I know the identity of the person who will fulfill the role in our time. It results from some things I read on his no-longer-extant website, conclusions as to his identity from what he did and did not say, and a couple of convictions which my wife or I have had as to what will be the result of his acting as he implied he would.” Now, see…I would have been printing this shit out and discussing it with all the other Jesus freaks in my church. I realize Poly’s experience with The Big Guy is always a private showing, but if it was on the web (how conveeeeenient that the site is now gone), I’d have been sharing that information with everyone who’d listen. It’s just such a crock of shit. All the secrecy. He knows, but he’s not telling. He’s protecting the messiah’s identity until HE wants to be known. And again with the cherry picking. Changing the christian version of the second coming. Same ol’ deluded song and dance. Some of you people are such chumps. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/247 "2003-12-04T21:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I will leave the furious (in terms of speed, not anger) construction of strawmen to a fisher of men “I will make you threshers of men,” then? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/248 "2003-12-04T21:30:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*A belief that aliens _have already been here_ and will return in some indefinite future is no more rational than suspecting George Bush (or more likely Michael Jackson ;)) is an alien. > \*\* No. Let’s put this rational/irrational dichotomy to bed once and for all. There are indeed degrees of irrationality. Bayesian statistics works both ways. To put it in simple terms, believing that aliens may have visited the earth in the past is less irrational than believing George Bush is a space alien because, there is much less actual evidence regarding the four-billion odd years of earth history than there is regarding the fifty-odd years of George Bush’s history. We consider it highly unlikely that aliens have visited earth based on circumstantial evidence. We also recognize that much of this evidence is itself based on extremely inexact estimates. We have, however, direct evidence regarding George Bush and his life. Thus, it should take a great deal of very compelling direct evidence demonstrating that George Bush is a space alien to convince us to switch to believing that George Bush is a space alien. By contrast it would take proportionally less direct evidence to convince us that aliens have visited earth sometime in the last four billion years. It follows that while it is irrational to believe that space aliens have visited earth in the past, it is more irrational to believe that George Bush is an alien because one must discount/re-interpret much more evidence to do so. Michael Jackson is a much closer call. With respect to literal belief in the bible, it’s somewhat more complex. There is no disputing that the bible is _evidence_ for the existance of god, etc. It is, after all, supposed to be a record of publicly witnessed miracles. You can argue that this evidence is outweighed by other evidence, but that’s a different debate. Nor can you argue that the bible must be rejected a priori because it purports to be evidence of supernatural events. That’s simply circular reasoning. Here’s where the degrees of irrationality comes in. The new testament says, “Here’s a record of a bunch of supernatural events that prove our hero is god. Having proven that he is god, he also says the following . . . These events may sound unlikely but he’s already proven he’s god by doing all these miracles so you’d better just believe it.” Ok, as far as it goes. While, on balance, after weighing all the evidence, it may be “irrational” to believe the new testament to be true, it is not irrational to conclude that if the new testament _is_ true, that the supernatural is real and that all these other unlikely things will happen just like it says. It is, however, seriously irrational to depart from that framework and just decide, based on something you invented in your own head, that Justin Timberlake should be worshipped as the second coming of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/249 "2003-12-04T21:37:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*And of course, no one seems to be positing that **Poly** made his “revelation” solely to push this discussion to five pages and make a point. > \*\* Which sounds like trolling, no matter who does it. So, hopefully not. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/250 "2003-12-04T21:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*“I will make you threshers of men,” then? 😃 \*\* Or thrashers of men, but that’s a fairly specialized vocation. Makes good money in certain clubs, though… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/251 "2003-12-04T21:42:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SkipMagic \* > \*\*Which sounds like trolling, no matter who does it. So, hopefully not. \*\* I don’t see it that way. Trolling is posting things solely to provoke agitation and outrage. What I see **Poly** doing (and this is, I admit, my opinion) is posting things to provoke _thought_. The fact that they also provoke speculation as to his orthodoxy and sanity is more or less irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/252 "2003-12-04T21:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Yeah, worshiping Justin Timberlake is a bit wierd, but it’s better to hedge your bets _just in case . . ._ \*\* Good point, since I’ve known people weird enough to convert to the LDS _just because_ Donny Osmond is a Mormon. (Please, Mormons, not the qualifying _just because_ that takes this from a possibly reasonable action to one that is pretty darned weird.) I’ll meet you and DtC at the five dollar window. I have noticed that people don’t usually follow my hijacks unless a thread is pretty much used up. Do you folks think this thread is dead until Poly starts naming a name? Sure seems that way to me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/253 "2003-12-04T21:46:58Z")
I do find it interesting to see which posters consider this revelation a crack in **Poly’s** armor of reason and popularity and show their true feelings for the man, whether it’s skeptical posters who don’t like how he makes Christians look reasonable usually, or Christian posters who think he “waters down” Christ’s message (although I always thought he gave Christ’s actual message more clarity and credence than the detractors ever did). Funny how the vultures circle when the prospective prey stumbles… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/254 "2003-12-04T21:47:31Z")
> [@](#): > > regarding the fifty-odd years of George Bush’s history. And what odd years they were! (Zang!) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/255 "2003-12-04T21:51:17Z")
**Truth Seeker** : Asserting as fact that aliens have visited the Earth, _absent evidence_ is just as irrational as asserting that George Bush is an alien (after all, what test would prove that he _isn’t_? Also, the Bible is evidence of nothing. The Bible is nothing but written assertion, much of it severely undemined by _actual_ evidence. Assertion is not evidence. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/256 "2003-12-04T21:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > I’ll meet you and DtC at the five dollar window. I’m curious. What does that five bucks buy? If **Polycarp** puts a name to the Golden Child, would you go to his website? Read some of his philosophy? Buy his book, if it comes out? Go to a sermon? Would you, in other words, give him a chance? I’d be willing to take **Polycarp** ’s word for a lot of things, and even though I find this hunch of his pretty preposterous on the surface, I think I’d owe him enough respect to not dismiss it out of hand. Personally, I’d be eager to find out who he was talking about, and to judge for myself what I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/257 "2003-12-04T21:58:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*Funny how the vultures circle when the prospective prey stumbles… \*\* It’s even funnier how some people try to turn everything into a popularity contest. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/258 "2003-12-04T22:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Asserting as fact that aliens have visited the Earth, absent evidence is just as irrational as asserting that George Bush is an alien But what about asserting as a mere LIKELIHOOD that aliens have visited the Earth? Or asserting as a possibility? Are those two assertions equally rational/irrational, too? Nobody’s claiming that the statement “I know for a fact that aliens have visited Earth” isn’t topsy-turvy nuts. However, using your either/or logic, we’re left to conclude that the statements “It’s possible…” or “It’s likely…” are either just as irrational, or perfectly rational, which is just not the case (the former is a more rational expression than the latter, for example, though neither are outside the bounds of rationality). Grey areas, man. They’re not just GSV’s. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/259 "2003-12-04T22:25:10Z")
I’ve known **Polycarp** through his posts here and elsewhere for a few years ago, and got the chance to meet him at a Dopefest a few years ago. During all that time, although I did not share his religious views, I have respected them. They are a part of who he is — a kind, caring, and thoughtful man. I never felt that he was thrusting his religious beliefs upon me or anyone, but offering his interpretation of a loving God, often in opposition of those who insisted He was a petty or hate-filled one. Were his religious views as presented earlier right or wrong? I have no idea. None of us can know with a certainty whether they were correct or not. Was anyone harmed by his spreading the word of a God of Love? No. Is this new interpretation right or wrong? I don’t know that either. It certainly has less support from the current religious mainstream — but, again, I’ve never been thoroughly convinced by them, either. As for **badchad** : The only thing I’ve seen of him is a relentless hounding of **Polycarp** for his beliefs. I honestly don’t see what could motivate someone to expend so much time in such a vitriolic obsession. This is a message board. What great victory would be won on the off chance that **Polycarp** ever caved and said “You know, you’re right, **badchad**. This God stuff is all just a load of crap.”, which seems to be the only result that would satisfy **badchad**? I think that perhaps **Polycarp** may not be the one in this thread with severe mental health issues. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/260 "2003-12-04T22:26:03Z")
Sure, there might be a god, but evidence of a loving christian god doesn’t exist, regardless of what the deluded masses might want to believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640.md?page=14)