# Polycarp did you forget to take you pills? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640 "2003-12-03T03:54:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/501 "2003-12-07T22:22:05Z")
OK, I’m with **erislover** , I detect no insanity. In the eyes of “common wisdom”, eccentricity? Sure, but if eccentricity be accompanied by generosity, kindness, gentleness and tolerance, gimme as much of it as you got. In several churches’ orthodoxies, a major misunderstanding of the point? Sure. But not being currently enlisted in any “One True Church” camp, I can’t get too bent out of shape over that side. **Polycarp** may be wrong? It’s NOT lunacy to be wrong. (OK, I’ll stop speaking Rumsfeldese now) OTOH if this Wouldbe Jesus starts doing things inconsistent with Poly’s understanding of the messianic role, and Poly insists in either ignoring it or adjusting his own beliefs to fit the guy, THEN I’d worry for him, not for fear of lunacy but for fear he may be getting dragged on a fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/502 "2003-12-07T22:24:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _erislover said:_ > I’m pretty sure Christian mythology, morality, and ontology were all anticipated to various degrees as well. What the hell does that have to do with anything? It’s not that it discounts the kid as Messiah, it’s just incredibly weak as any kind of indication that he is. **Poly** put a lot of time into that bio post and that’s the example of this kid’s potential? Is he saving the good stuff for later? On preview **DDG** has answered already, oh well. And frankly I don’t know what world you are living in when you can’t see what the big deal is with saying: “The second coming of Christ will be non-apocalyptic, in our life time, and brought forth by a young gay man who’s been having sexual relations since age 12.” ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/503 "2003-12-07T22:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m no Biblical scholar, DDG, but ISTM that a large portion of Jesus’ message was specifically “wouldn’t it be nice if everyone got along” Er, no, sorry. “Love your enemy” is in there, yes, but so is, “When a town rejects the Gospel, shake off the dust from your shoes and leave.” Matthew 10:14. Lotta other judgemental stuff in there. 1. Repent. Matthew 4. Of your sins. Which presupposes the existence of “sins”. Pretty judgemental there. Fingerpointing. 1. People who do not repent are in deep shit. Matthew 11. “Woe”. 2. Some people will not have tickets to get in. Matthew 8. 3. “I come not to bring peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10. 4. Just about everything can be forgiven, except for one thing, which can never, ever be forgiven. Matthew 12. Not 100% “wouldn’t it be nice if we could all get along”. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/504 "2003-12-07T23:01:17Z")
I will speak circuitously so as to spare the _Reader_ any possible slander lawsuits. The son of the “aw-shucks” founder of _America’s World-Devouring Chain Of Seemingly Ubiquitous And Universally Despised Humongous Discount Stores Whose Name Is A Byword For Mall Sprawl And The Destruction Of Worthy Small Businessmen Everywhere But Is Not K-Mart Who Can Only Envy Them At A Distance_ is now its chairman, and at age 58, is the right age to have kids in college. Can’t find anything on Google about a wife and/or kids, though. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/505 "2003-12-07T23:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > And frankly I don’t know what world you are living in when you can’t see what the big deal is with saying: “The second coming of Christ will be non-apocalyptic, in our life time, and brought forth by a young gay man who’s been having sexual relations since age 12.” The same world where people believe Christ will _ever_ come. Once we take it for granted that miracles have occurred, pretty much anything is possible. I mean, what am I supposed to say? “OK, there is an all-powerful being who, in some way, either became or made a human with divine powers, born to a virgin, to show people the way to live, and who prophesized his own return. This person/being was killed and rose from the grave.” Once that’s on the table, I pretty much figure no one has any room to argue. [list=1][li]The bible is not unambiguous[_]If we accept any ability to reason at all, it has to be metaphorical or incomplete in some places[_]miracles do occur[/list=1]You can pretty much construct anything from that.[/li] If Christ is so undeniably true, what makes **Poly** ’s hunch this so incredibly implausable that wouldn’t _also_ undermine the entire line of thought that makes one a Christian in the first place? I am reminded of the bromide, “Once you understand why you have rejected all other gods, you’ll understand why I reject yours.” The situation feels more than analogous. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/506 "2003-12-07T23:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **Er, no, sorry.** My sentiments exactly: > [@](#): > > Matthew 22: > 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. > [@](#): > > Mark 12: > 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. > [@](#): > > Luke 10: > 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Seems fairly well-supported to me that “let’s try to get along” is the main focus of Jesus. And I’ll thank you to remove that strawman from my argument, as I said “largely”, not 100%. Thankyewverymuch. Lastly, this is **still** incorrect despite your statement to the contrary, **DDG** : “Um, because Poly **said** that what he read on this kid’s website was what convinced him that this kid was The One” **Poly** did in fact not say this. What he did say was that IF The One is now down here, he believes this person could fulfill that role. NOT “This Kid is The One”. Recognize the qualifiers and caveats in there? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/507 "2003-12-07T23:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _erislover said_ > The same world where people believe Christ will ever come. Once we take it for granted that miracles have occurred, pretty much anything is possible. I mean, what am I supposed to say? “OK, there is an all-powerful being who, in some way, either became or made a human with divine powers, born to a virgin, to show people the way to live, and who prophesized his own return. This person/being was killed and rose from the grave.” Once that’s on the table, I pretty much figure no one has any room to argue. I guess you are discounting the culture we live in which has already accepted or works around those crazy miracle things you listed? Okay then a different tack: So once I accept that free markets don’t really work I am on par with the radical Marxists? Juggling a fantasy in the back of your mind that someday you’ll have to answer to the big guy is distinctly different from thinking you’ve spotted him. You are trying to say it is merely a quantitative difference but it looks pretty qualitative to me. I’m waiting for the show stopper, and getting worried. I guess I should pace myself- probably have a two day wait. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/508 "2003-12-07T23:41:44Z")
Oh, I understand that they are different, **CarnalK** , what I don’t understand is how we would discount one without discounting the other. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/509 "2003-12-07T23:44:35Z")
Why, **erislover** , expecting decisions to be rational and/or follow some organized process. I mean, really!😃 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/510 "2003-12-07T23:49:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*erislover said:[/i} > Oh, I understand that they are different, CarnalK, what I don’t understand is how we would discount one without discounting the other. We all wear pants but clown pants are clown pants. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/511 "2003-12-07T23:49:35Z")
I still say yawn. This dude isn’t Jesus, in any way, shape or form. But I am glad Polcarp has something to believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/512 "2003-12-07T23:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > What he did say was that IF The One is now down here, he believes this person could fulfill that role. NOT “This Kid is The One”. Recognize the qualifiers and caveats in there? What you are not recognizing is that in mainstream Christian doctrine, we are not supposed to go around trying to spot The One, at all, period, whether as a(nother) divine incarnation or as a Regular Joe who may be appointed/called to fulfill a Messianic role, because it’s presumptuous. We are supposed to wait patiently on God’s own time. Hence Jesus’ warnings against false prophets who would tell you, “He is here, or, no, he is over here.” So he can put as many “qualifiers” or “caveats” in there as he wants, it doesn’t make any difference–he’s still trying to spot The One. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/513 "2003-12-07T23:56:39Z")
agreed ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/514 "2003-12-07T23:59:34Z")
My “apologies”, **DDG** , I seem to have lost all recollection of **Poly** ’s hunt for “The Real Messiah”. Perhaps I missed the tell-all book … the documentary … something like that. I had, however, gleaned from **Poly** ’s post that it was something the possibility of which occurred to both him and his wife not through their own personal manhunt but through browsing the internet. May I one day aspire to your level of “competency” in “remembering” this sort of thing which I have evidently “forgotten”🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/515 "2003-12-08T00:35:10Z")
To me it seems like **Polycarp** found some historical parallels with other great ethical teachers and thinks that maybe this kid has the potential to be another one. This whole second coming of Jesus" thing is really being imposed by other posters, not explicitly alleged by Poly. It seems to me that looking for historical precedents and then speculating about a situation which seems similar is a hell of a lot less crazy than peering at the sky waiting for a host of burning angels. No matter how silly some of you think Poly’s speculations are they don’t hold a candle to the stuff that a lot of you already swallow (“virgin birth,” _Snort_). So maybe this Walmart kid won’t be a literal “divine” Messiah (and neither was Jesus if you really fucking want the Straight Dope) but he may have the means and the inclination to make his voice heard as a major civil rights leader and maybe Poly has an intutition about it which is filtered through his own religious sensibilities. Maybe “God” is going to work through a particular individual to bring a certain change in a naturalistic way (and can anybody actually prove that God has ever performed a single miracle?). Poly’s intuition and explanation actually make sense to me. I don’t think he’s even alleging anything that’s necessarily supernatural as much as making a spiritual interpretation of who he intuits may be a force for social change. if someone said that thought that Martin Luther King played a “divine” role in human history I doubt many people would piss all over it like they’re doing with Poly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/516 "2003-12-08T00:45:47Z")
**DDG** , so the fuck what if he’s trying to “spot” the Messiah? Does it really matter? Does God really give a shit? Where does the Bible actually say “Ye shall not scout around for thy Messiah?” So it’s not mainstream doctrine, so what? You don’t actually think that mainstream Christian doctrine is any more “true” than any other doctrine, do you? Jesus wasn’t even a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/517 "2003-12-08T00:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CarnalK \* > \*\*We all wear pants but clown pants are clown pants. \*\* I understand what a qualitative difference is, that isn’t the problem. I know how to select among a set of pants. How do I select among a set of miracles? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/518 "2003-12-08T00:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess you are discounting the culture we live in which has already accepted or works around those crazy miracle things you listed? Cite that our culture “accepts or works around” any miracles? And just because lots of people believe something doesn’t mean it’s not bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/519 "2003-12-08T01:10:55Z")
Diogenes the Cynic: > [@](#): > > To me it seems like Polycarp found some historical parallels with other great ethical teachers and thinks that maybe this kid has the potential to be another one. This whole second coming of Jesus" thing is really being imposed by other posters, not explicitly alleged by Poly. Ahhhh, then what do you call this: > [@](#): > > by Polycarp: > And any evangelical today can tell you exactly what’s going to happen – just like any devout Jew could back then. Nobody expected the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, and the Resurrection. Nobody expected an itinerant rabbi who taught in parables, and who redefined the law as radical love of God and compassionate lovingkindness towards all human beings. > > IMHO, He will make Himself known fairly soon, and in a way that nobody, including me, expects. Those who believe in Him will recognize Him from His teachings – but a lot of those who claim the Christian faith will reject Him because He will contradict the dogma they hold more precious than following Him. > > I have a very strong hunch that I do in fact know his identity – and his surname is already a household word. If I am correct, he is fairly short, a very handsome young man with dusky blonde hair and beautiful-but-insightful blue-green eyes, slightly disabled by a chronic heart-valve problem, in his late teens today. He will probably be accompanied by a companion since childhood, a dark-haired young man whose heart is given to him. > > And His teachings will shock the evangelical community. You continue to disappoint me Diogenes. As an unbeliever I would expect you to be the voice of reason, not the apologist of nonsense. Next week will you be defending John Edward? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640/520 "2003-12-08T01:13:22Z")
There’s a difference between not believing and striving to be the Al-Qaeda of atheism. The scorched-earth thing isn’t gaining you friends. It’s not gaining you allies. It’s making you look like a silly ass. Have fun undercutting your support system on this board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polycarp-did-you-forget-to-take-you-pills/216640.md?page=27)