# Polygamy...who cares? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2001, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499 "2001-05-15T12:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/101 "2001-09-07T21:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Yeah, I absolutely agree. If they would enforce the laws against the actual harmful and illegal practices of CHILD ABUSE, SPOUSAL ABUSE, UNDERAGE MARRIAGES, ET CETERA AND SO ON, perhaps they could actually solve those problems. In the meantime, they can ignore those problems and run around bitching about the evils of polygamy. > > Hard to enforce those laws when the victims aren’t complaining about it. But by selectively and appropriately enforcing the laws against polygamy, you prevent those crimes from happening in the first place. Neat, huh? **minty** , I love ya like a brother (not hyperbole - I’m not that close to my brothers 😃 ), but this is ridiculous. Are you honestly arguing “but-for” causation? There are scores of activities that in themselves are harmless, but carry a significant risk of social harm. The solution is not to ban the socially harmless conduct, but instead act against the harms that thereafter arise. **KellyM** - **minty** is off-base, but the comparison to **Brian Bunnyhurt** is WAAAAAAY off-base. **minty** may have drawn the wrong conclusions, but the bases for his conclusion do not exist in a Bunnyhurtian never-never land. Sua ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/102 "2001-09-07T21:02:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **Of course, I _am_ a lawyer.** Oh, dear. I suppose I really should apologize, then. **Brian** , I’m sorry I compared you to a lawyer. I understand how that could be construed as defamatory. Please accept my apologies. d&r 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/103 "2001-09-07T21:15:30Z")
[QUOTE **KellyM** - **minty** is off-base, but the comparison to **Brian Bunnyhurt** is WAAAAAAY off-base. **minty** may have drawn the wrong conclusions, but the bases for his conclusion do not exist in a Bunnyhurtian never-never land. [/QUOTE] I dunno about that. Read some of **Brian** ’s and especially **Daniel** ’s comments in the [previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=59696). There is a striking similarity in the arguments offered by **Brian** and **Daniel** for criminalizing polygamy and those offered by **minty** , including the hyperbolic suggestion that the only way to prevent child and spousal abuse in Utah is to criminalize polygamy. It’s not my fault that minty seems to be arguing the same points the same way as two of the board’s most decorated lunatics… ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Nekked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/46a35a/32.png) [@Buck\_Nekked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Nekked)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/104 "2001-09-08T05:22:30Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Irishman \* \*\*Buck Nekked said: > [@](#): > > If Tom Green were a Utah Jazz basketball player that had simply fathered children with these women, rather than having married them, this topic thread would have died within a couple of days. > > Why is Tom Green a criminal while Karl Malone is a celebrity in the state of Utah? minty green replied: > [@](#): > > Buck: It’s a little thing called “marriage.” Try to keep up. 😉 Irishman responded: > [@](#): > > I think Buck did follow. He’s using sarcasm and irony to point out the injustice of the situation. Karl Malone is monopolizing the affections of multiple women and keeping them from other men who then are left without, but nobody is penalizing him for it. Whereas Tom Green is attempting to fulfill his obligations and marrying the women he knocks up, and he goes to jail. (Yes, I certainly twisted perception there.) The difference is Karl Malone is black. (There, how’s that for a hijack that will start a riot? 😉 And no, I’m not serious, so no need to argue.) \*\* Irishman, you are correct in your assumption that I am up to speed. However, I think Minty knew that already. I took his response as a good-natured jab. I thought that my response was very much on topic with the OP, even if it was four months ago. Karl Malone’s race is indeed different from that of Tom Green, but more importantly, so are his religion and state of residency, as well as the respective states of residency of his concubines. And, as Minty so subtly pointed out, most importantly, so is his marital status. However, the familial lifestyles of these two men are virtually identical. Shouldn’t the law punish criminal activity with an even hand? I was somehow under the impression that justice was blind. Why does Tom Green’s compliance with the law (marriage) make him a criminal, while Karl Malone is not? It’s a fair question, and I stand by it. And, if this is off topic, my apologies to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Nekked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/46a35a/32.png) [@Buck\_Nekked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Nekked)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/105 "2001-09-08T05:31:55Z")
I should clarify that “familial lifestyles” does not imply that Karl Malone is banging a thirteen year old girl. Obviously, that’s a different topic altogether. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/106 "2001-09-08T20:40:29Z")
Of course men have a right to mate. Everyone should have a man or woman to choose from. I was just wondering if the ratio were skewed one way or the other, what would happen? If there were more men, maybe women would take multiple husbands. No offense was meant or reading into it. Just a curious question. Robodude: I do not want a wife.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/107 "2001-09-09T23:07:45Z")
minty green said: > [@](#): > > Just let me say that I certainly acknowledge that the religious mindset is a cause of the problems in those communities on which I’m focusing. But you can’t make mindsets illegal. You can, however, make actions illegal, and the government does it all the time, quite justifiably. In this case, I believe that the actual harm caused by polygamy _as it is most often practiced in the American West_ is more than sufficient to justify criminal sanctions for its practice. Sure, take your time, go to Honduras, come back and blast my post. 😉 True, can’t make mindsets illegal. Certainly you can make actions illegal even if they are religiously motivated actions, as long as the reason is not to single out that religion and the enforcement is evenly spread. The question becomes which actions should you make illegal and why. But I’m not convinced that polygamy is the action that is hurtful, even as practiced by this sect. The acts that are hurtful should be illegal - underage marriage, cheating welfare, physical and psychological abuse, sexual assault, incest, etc should be enforced and even strengthened in some cases, but _I_ still don’t see how enforcing polygamy eliminates those. It seems like saying we should outlaw pets because some people abuse their pets or let them run rampant and create an overabundance of strays. Or we should make cars illegal and force everyone to use public transportation because of reckless driving. Buck Nekked, actually I think that was arguing against someone else’s comments in another thread, rather than minty’s. I followed your comment as an on topic response and totally valid. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/108 "2001-09-09T23:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > I find it eerily curious that **minty green** sounds a hell of a lot like **Brian Bunnyhurt** … Nah, minty is far to coherent and hasn’t thrown non-sequitur attacks at the LDS church yet, so they must be different. [sub]Although, come to think of it, has anyone seen both of them in the same room at the same time? :)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/109 "2001-09-10T04:07:25Z")
I’ve breezed through most of this thread and if these questions have come up already, I apologize. 1.How in the heck does a polygamist fill out his tax forms? With 5 fives and 29 kids, it just boggles my mind. 1. Has anyone else noticed in the picture of this Tom Green ( I keep thinking of Drew Barrymore’s Tom Green) that these guys are usually put-a-bag-over-his-face-holy-moley -what-what-did-your-mama-sleep-wit’-to-beegat-somethin’-like-you- kind of fugly? 3.What if a polgyamist from some other country where it is legal, moves to the US. Is his marriages legal or illegal? If so, naturally, how are the taxes handled and (this is even a worse nightmare) health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Determinist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@Determinist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Determinist)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/110 "2001-09-10T08:25:03Z")
OK i haven’t read the whole thread but ill still give my two cents… It was the _Reynolds v U.S._ (1879) Supreme Court case that upheld the original Utah territorial law prohibiting polygamy (even for religious reasons). Look up the case sometime and read the opinion of the court. The reasoning is actually pretty absurd–it wouldn’t hold up today. It’s pretty safe to say that if that same case were before the Supreme Court today, they would rule in favor of the polygamists on religious freedom grounds. Before 1879 Polygamy was one of the most fundamental and essential beliefs of Mormonism. After the decision, Mormons thought that the end of the world was near and that there was literally going to be an apocalyptic war between God and U.S. Government (I’m still trying to picture that but having trouble). Eventually, after the government sent non-mormon federal judges to preside over polygamy cases, the LDS church saw that it could not continue to resist and instead took a rigid stand against polygamy and has even helped law enforcement to turn polygamists in. But there are all sorts of small Mormon fundamentalist sects that still practice it. However, in the last few decades there have been relatively few polygamy cases compared to the number of people who are actually practicing it. This might be because if it is enforced to strongly it will eventually be appealed to the Supreme court and possibly overturned. It would be interesting though to see if the Mormon Church changed their position on polygamy if the laws against it were someday struck down as unconstitutional. I say ‘who cares?’ If the marriages are consensual let them do whatever they want. Hell, who would want more than one wife anyway? I love my wife, but I don’t think I could handle two or three. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/111 "2001-09-10T11:46:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shirley Ujest \* > \*\*3.What if a polgyamist from some other country where it is legal, moves to the US. Is his marriages legal or illegal? If so, naturally, how are the taxes handled and (this is even a worse nightmare) health insurance. \*\* He must disavow all but one of his wives before he can be granted an entry visa. Federal law prohibits any person from entering the country with the intent of practicing polygamy. This even applies to visitor’s visas, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/112 "2001-09-10T13:15:56Z")
I am not usually one for details or deep thought, so here is my contribution. Ummmm, wouldn’t this be infringing on his personal rights and the right worship as he choses. Honestly, wouldn’t this be something right up the ACLU’s ally? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2001, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499/113 "2001-09-10T17:09:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shirley Ujest \* > \*\*Ummmm, wouldn’t this be infringing on his personal rights and the right worship as he choses. Honestly, wouldn’t this be something right up the ACLU’s ally? \*\* You’d think so, but it doesn’t. The Supreme Court concluded, a little over a century ago, that polygamy inevitably leads to despotism and is contrary to democracy, so the government can ban it if it wants to. See previous discussion in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polygamy-who-cares/65499.md?page=5)