# Pompous negativity in Cafe Society threads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376 "2003-05-29T21:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/21 "2003-05-29T23:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*I just think–PERSONALLY–that such threads–threads with an entirely negative bent–are childish and pointless and only compound ignorance rather than fight it. \*\* Yeah, I hate those kind of threads too. It’s like, some people will just start up a thread for the sole purpose of being negative about something. Don’t they have anything better to do than sit around making negative posts about some random subject? How sad is that? You know another type of post I hate? The sarcastic ones. Some people think it’s _so great_ to be sarcastic. “Oh, look at me, I’m being sarcastic, I’m making ironic, jeering remarks to derogate someone else’s opinion.” Man, I can’t stand that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/22 "2003-05-29T23:55:44Z")
**Lissener** , did you read the whole of my post? I wasn’t being entirely serious there. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/23 "2003-05-29T23:59:06Z")
> [@](#): > > and all country western music sounds the same . . . UNTIL YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT IT And all people who don’t like Eminem sound the same . . UNTIL YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THEM (oh, wait, no they don’t according to you, they are just sheep. Way to set the example high!) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/24 "2003-05-30T00:20:55Z")
I agree with the OP, even though on occasion I’ve been just as guilty of doing it as anyone else. If a thread is, “Post here if you love Pokemon” and you drop in just to say how much Pokemon sucks, it’s a hijack, plain and simple. The flip side of this, of course, is that if a thread invites genuine debate, stop getting pissed off because someone doesn’t like something you do and isn’t afraid to state it in the strongest possible terms. If a thread is, “What did you think of _Titanic_?” and I say, “It’s melodrama at it’s basest, with a moronic plot, bad acting, and all the charm and novelty of a South American snuff film,” please try to keep in mind that I’m _talking about the movie, not about the people who liked it._ We’re discussing art. There are no right or wrong answers. It’s a given that your opinion is just that: your opinion. Prefacing everything you say with IMO or YMMV just makes it look like you have no convictions and possibly a defective keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/25 "2003-05-30T00:29:14Z")
“Post in this thread only if you agree, otherwise it’s a hijack”??? oops. sorry, I shouldn’t have posted in this one then. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/26 "2003-05-30T00:42:37Z")
I agree **wring** …which may come as a surprise, since we’ve occasionally been at odds. 🙂 I can see **Miller** ’s point as well, however. I guess it seems like a relatively small thing to get upset about. YMMV and all that. This, however: > [@](#): > > I think Cafe Society threads that are initiated just to slam something you don’t like are stupid, if that answers your question. . . . makes no sense to me at all. I do not find all art equal. I don’t know of anyone who does. Why, then, should I feel I should refrain from posting a negative OP of some piece of art if I feel strongly about it? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/27 "2003-05-30T01:09:13Z")
I should clarify that if someone posts a differing opinion in a fan thread _and is willing and able to back it up with evidence from the text_, then I don’t mind so much. A debate is always more interesting than a bunch of backslapping, to my way of thinking. It’s people who just drive-by with, “Well, I think it sux,” who bother me. But not half as much as these people: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\*What I find more irritating is the clowns that show up in a “Star Wars plot holes” thread to post things like: > > “C3PO doesn’t remember being on Tatooine because it was a MOVIE!! It’s just a MOVIE people!!” > > Their **only** point is to make everyone feel stupid for caring about a movie so much. Jerks. \*\* A-fuckin-men. No shit it’s only a movie. I, too, have noticed a distinct lack of orbital death moons on CNN lately. People post threads like that because they enjoy talking about movies they like, and after a while, you get tired of typing, “Hey, remember that part where Luke is about to get shot down by Darth Vader, and Han Solo shows up out of nowhere and shoots Vader down instead? That was COOL!” Do these assholes take college courses on Elizabethan literature just so they can stand up in the middle of a discussion of the moral implications of _Hamlet_ and tell everyone, “It’s just a PLAY, people!” I also agree with **Ogre** that often the only pleasure in a bad work of art comes in the vicious dismantling of it afterwards. I payed eight bucks to sit through _Starship Troopers_. I’m going to get some fucking pleasure out of it, even if it’s only through making fun of Casper van Diem’s hair. C’mon, who doesn’t open the Arts section of the newspaper and read the bad reviews first? They’re way more fun. Ebert even published a great little book collecting his reviews of his least favorite movies of all time. His savaging of _North_ is one of the all time great pieces of negative criticism. Especially if you caught the roast of Rob Reiner where someone read it to his face. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/28 "2003-05-30T01:35:05Z")
The title of that book is called I Hated, Hated, HATED this movie - in honor of his _North_ review. There are a large quantity of scathing reviews of older movies in there that you can’t find in his online reviews, all of which are hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/29 "2003-05-30T01:48:29Z")
I agree with everybody. Sometimes people really just want to show how superior they are. Especially in threads about something currently fashionable in Pop culture. Someone starts a thread on this week’s Survivor. Inevitably someone else will post something like: I _never_ watch reality shows. They are the stupidest things ever. I can’t believe anybody watches them. Or there’s a thread asking for clarification on the lyrics of Missy Eliot’s latest. Always _always_ there will be those who _have_ to add some snide negativity: Why would you want to understand that crap? Rap isn’t music. That’s just rude and pompous and it pisses me off. These people are not offering their opinions on the show or the song or the movie, these people are looking down their noses at those whose taste they do not agree with. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/30 "2003-05-30T02:06:49Z")
I don’t read Cafe Society threads - they’re lame. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/31 "2003-05-30T02:12:10Z")
Let me reiterate what everyone’s been sayin’. Posting disagreement in a thread entitled something like (for example) “I love Eminem!” or “I hate Eminem!” is one thing. Even if it doesn’t flat out ask for opinions, it’s pretty much inviting them anyways. Posting something negative in a thread entitled “What’s your favorite Eminem song?” is stupid, and honestly, a waste of everyone’s time. If you don’t like Eminem, if you hate Eminem with every fibre of your body, it would be so much _simpler_ for everyone involved if you just refrained from clicking on the damn thread. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/32 "2003-05-30T02:40:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tanaqui \* > \*\* If you don’t like Eminem, if you hate Eminem with every fibre of your body, it would be so much _simpler_ for everyone involved if you just refrained from clicking on the damn thread. \*\* It’s always possible someone will change their mind too. I used to think I hated everything about Eminem (never mind that, at that time, I hadn’t heard any of his music). I judged him by the negative things I’d _heard_. I was one of the sheep and am ashamed to admit it. lissener was the one who got me to open my mind a bit. I went to see **8 Mile** and enjoyed it, and was very impressed by Eminem. I think I “get” Eminem now, even if I’m not going to rush out and buy an album, I am able to appreciate the good things that are said about him by obviously intelligent people. Then too, that’s a reason to go easy on people who have a different opinion. They may come over to your side one day. I agree with the OP, btw. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/33 "2003-05-30T02:57:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*And all people who don’t like Eminem sound the same . . UNTIL YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT THEM > > (oh, wait, no they don’t according to you, they are just sheep. Way to set the example high!) \*\* In **lissener** ’s defense, she(?) didn’t say that _everyone_ who dislikes Eminem is a sheep. She said that a lot of the people who’ll stop into an Eminem fan-thread to bash him are bashing him not because they’ve actually listened and made their own value judgments about his art, but because they’ve heard reports he uses drugs and “isn’t he the one who beat up his girlfriend?” or something else negative, and made immediate judgments. I consider this kind of knee-jerk negativity to be right up there with the “It’s just a MOVIE” assholes. If someone wants to say something negative that nonetheless indicates they’ve done some listening and thinking, great; that kind of intelligent debate is why I read and post here, and I try to maintain the intellectual level of this board (there is no prize for digging up examples to the contrary). But a drive-by post to say, “Eminem/The White Stripes/Adaptation/_Finnegans Wake_/whathaveyou SUCKS!!!” adds nothing at all to any discussion. Oh, and **Miller** , your comment about the Elizabethan lit students saying, “It’s just a PLAY, people!” had me laughing out loud. I will certainly be using that counterargument at some point in the future. Ono preview, well said, **Equipoise**. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/34 "2003-05-30T03:01:02Z")
(This is the Pit, right? OK, good.) Goddammit, I previewed _twice_. “ **On** preview.” ---
**Author:** ![lilbtagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@lilbtagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilbtagna)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/35 "2003-05-30T04:17:01Z")
I’ve been thinking about posting about the OP also. Of course, if the subject is up for debate, then I see nothing wrong with differing opinions on the subject matter. In the thread that **lissener** linked to though, everyone was having a nice, cheerful time talking about an animated movie and how cute it was. I just knew that some ass would come in and ruin the atmosphere. Honestly, what’s the point? Everyone else in the thread likes the movie, and most who didn’t like it stay away from the thread. Avoid all the drama and just don’t read the damn thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/36 "2003-05-30T06:15:04Z")
I gave the situation some more thought, and let me (hopefully) clarify my position via a hypothetical thought exercise. I loves me some Lars Von Trier. Love eveyrthing he’s ever done. Fantastic director. Say I opened an OP in Cafe Society entitled “The Lars Von Trier Appreciation Thread.” OP: Lars Von Trier is a fantastically original director whose quirky imagination effectively combines European art-film sensibility with a decided light-heartedness, often hysterical humor, and an unashamed appreciation for supernatural horror. I love everything I’ve ever seen him do. Anyone else? Poster 1: Yeah, I loved his direction in _The Kingdom_! Man, what a marathon! Poster 2: Me too! Poster 3: Lars Von Trier?! That dried up husk of a wanna-be artsy-fartsy director? Man, I wanted to punch his ass out for that travesty _Element of Crime_, and Terry Gilliam kicked his dog over _Zentropa_. The last time I heard from Von Trier, he was under David Lynch’s desk, being referred to as “Monica” (not that there’s anything wrong with that.) Cut your hair, you greasy Steve Buscemi-lookin’ motherfucker! Now. What would your reaction to Poster 3 be? Would you [ul] [li]Get all offended, but ignore him/her?[/li][li]Get all offended, melt down in CS, get banned, and create a sock so you can start a “Coldfire is a Nazi” thread?[/li][li]Step 3: Profit! (sorry)[/li][li]Get all offended, and immediately excoriate Poster 3 in a Pit thread?[/li][li]Give back with both barrels?[/li][li]Other?[/li][/ul] For myself, I’d probably respond with something like: “ **Poster 3** , I’d seriously take another look at Von Trier’s work if I were you. You seem to suggest that he is an unskilled director, but he’s managed to bring things to the screen that are truly original, funny, and occasionally shocking. Sure, he’s sort of influenced by Lynch’s work, but then again, Lynch hardly invented Stream-of-Consciousness. Besides, the reason he was under Lynch’s desk was to show him how he got that ‘giving birth to a full-grown man’ effect in _The Kingdom_.” Note that there’s not a shred of personal effrontery toward Poster 3. I guess I just do not take offense at someone else’s interpretation of art. If it clashes with mine, I simply tell them why I think they’re wrong. No big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/37 "2003-05-30T06:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jackelope \* > \*\*In **lissener** ’s defense, she(?) didn’t say that _everyone_ who dislikes Eminem is a sheep. She said that a lot of the people who’ll stop into an Eminem fan-thread to bash him are bashing him not because they’ve actually listened and made their own value judgments about his art, but because they’ve heard reports he uses drugs and “isn’t he the one who beat up his girlfriend?” or something else negative, and made immediate judgments. > \*\* If that is what was ment then i misread the post, but to me her whole stance in this thread is just another layer of the “I’m better than you” that she is deriding against. (especially when she attacked \*\*El\_Kabong \*\*) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/38 "2003-05-30T06:52:40Z")
**Ogre** : I don’t know if Lars Von Trier is the best example. Lets face it, if you have an opinion one way or the other on Von Trier, you’re probably the sort of person who’s willing to get into a serious debate on cinema 24/7. Sometime you just want lighter fare. I loved Star Wars. But I don’t necessarily always want to think about why I love Star Wars, you know? Sometimes I just want to talk about how cool it was with like-minded friends. Even then, though, I don’t get too pissed when someone drops in just to disagree. That’s not such a big deal, and not really The Big Offence. What really annoys are the drive-bys that don’t add anything. If you said, > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ogre_ > OP: Lars Von Trier is a fantastically original director whose quirky imagination effectively combines European art-film sensibility with a decided light-heartedness, often hysterical humor, and an unashamed appreciation for supernatural horror. I love everything I’ve ever seen him do. Anyone else? And someone came by with > [@](#): > > _Random Joe_ > Von Trier blows. And _nothing else_. No reason, no defence, no follow up. Just state an opinion and never come back. Who gives a shit? Who are you, and why should I care about your opinion? At least make a good Monica blow-job joke so I know you’ve got some approximation of wit and therefore might be worth listening to.\* And for God’s sake, _follow-up_. Don’t just drop a load in the thread and wander off, never to return. \*With that in mind, **plnnr** ’s Racer X joke was pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/39 "2003-05-30T09:19:53Z")
OK, I’ll admit it: I’m a snob. I do not enjoy conversing with people whose idea of “discussion” is saying things along the lines of “Eminem sucks” or “Matthew Lillard is sooooo hot!” Call me an effete, ivory-tower intellectual if you will, but I’ll go ahead and admit my position on this. If someone says, “I don’t like The White Stripes; their music sounds like they maybe had a decent idea for a song but were too lazy to actually do the work involved in properly recording and producing it,” then I’ll tell them I disagree, and why I disagree, and hope that they’ll come back reasonably, and one hopes that at the end of the discussion we will both feel that we’ve learned something. But if someone says, “The White Stripes suck donkey dicks!” (or, to go back to the OP, “After about the 950,000th time, I gave up trying to sit through it with her. Hated it, hated it, hated it. I kept hoping Racer X would show up”), then there’s no discussion. You hate it; I understand. Thanks for sharing, now please go away. If my insistence that someone state a _reason_ for their opinions makes me a snob, then fine! I’m a snob! Call me names! But be aware that if you feel compelled to give reasons for calling me names, then you’re a snob too. And if you don’t feel compelled to give reasons (e.g., “ **jackelope** is a big poopy-head!”), then sling away; mud doesn’t bother me. (By the way, I mean no specific offence to **plnnr** here; (s)he has seemed like a level-headed Doper to me in other threads. I use the example from convenience.) ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/40 "2003-05-30T12:15:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\* “Hey, remember that part where Luke is about to get shot down by Darth Vader, and Han Solo shows up out of nowhere and shoots Vader down instead? That was COOL!” > \*\* [whining]Oh, come on! I haven’t seen it yet![/whining] Where are the goddamn spoiler tags? [sup]For those of you who missed it, I was trying to be funny there.[/sup] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376.md?page=3)