# Pompous negativity in Cafe Society threads **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376 "2003-05-29T21:35:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/41 "2003-05-30T13:13:55Z")
Ah the “Television without Pity” effect. A bunch of Comic Book Guy wanna-be’s trying oh so hard to be clever and failing. The desperate need to gain the approval of the other wanna-be’s by coining a new nickname or wordplay disparaging the show which they still seem to watch every week. Pathetic. The Trading Spaces threads got so bad with this, that I don’t even post to them anymore. Too much of that TWoP wanna-be crap now. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/42 "2003-05-30T13:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*. . . and all country western music sounds the same . . . UNTIL YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT IT. > > See what I mean about these kinds of statements being more often a display of ignorance than anything else? \*\* Well, actually country music all sounds the same after you know everything about it, too. -Scylla, cowboy, quasi-redneck. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/43 "2003-05-30T14:13:12Z")
Yawn ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/44 "2003-05-30T14:23:01Z")
Sorry, I hit submit a little early there. I stated an opinon based on repeated viewings. My daughter loves it, I couldn’t find anything to like. Hardly worth the effort you took, but it is your time to waste. ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/45 "2003-05-30T14:38:27Z")
[silly flippant response]I don’t like those people that post in _Enterprise_ threads SPECIFICALLY to talk about _Enterprise_. What are they thinking? If I had any goats, those people would have gotten 'em. [/sfr] On a more serious note, I think it is impolite to interrupt a love-fest to say, “That thing you all love is really dumb,” or, “It’s just a MOVIE, you losers!” and so on. That said, I don’t actually mind if someone gives a well thought out explanation as to WHY it’s really dumb, but if they’re just being nasty, or self-aggrandizing, that’s kind of irritating. Also, I appreciate the slam threads (e.g., “What’s the worst book ever?”) that **lissener** finds inapproprate. Posts in these threads are often insightful and interesting. Just because people are saying that they dislike something doesn’t mean they are being ignorant… **Miller** ’s and **Ogre** ’s comments on this subject expressed my feelings better than I could, so I’ll just leave it at that. -K\* ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/46 "2003-05-30T16:36:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*Sorry, I hit submit a little early there. > > I stated an opinon based on repeated viewings. My daughter loves it, I couldn’t find anything to like. Hardly worth the effort you took, but it is your time to waste. \*\* Sorry, plnnr; thought I’d made it clear that my OP was mostly not about you: your post just broke the dam behind a post that’s been brewing a long time. What “got” me about your post was that, repeated viewings or not, you only saw one thing about the movie–its one possible weak point–and instead of looking beyond that to see what others see in it, you focused on that weakness, and let that be the whole movie for you. Whatever; not my problem. Just not an approach to movies (or other art) that I respect very much. Kn\*ckers says: "Also, I appreciate the slam threads (e.g., “What’s the worst book ever?”) that lissener finds inapproprate. Posts in these threads are often insightful and interesting. Just because people are saying that they dislike something doesn’t mean they are being ignorant… " First, I don’t find them _inappropriate_, I just find them silly and a waste of time. When I say that these threads are often a litany of ignorance, what I mean is this: when I used to check into those threads (I don’t anymore), there would always be someone railing about how awful director David Lynch is, or what a stupid book _Ulysses_ is, or whatever. People insulting works of art I know to be great, rather than more humbly explaining that they didn’t _get_ this or that artwork, or it didn’t speak to them, or that they just didn’t _like_ it. Before you all go off on me for saying something as pompous as “a work of art I know to be great,” please understand what I mean: If you believe in god, then there is a god: then you live a universe in which there is a god. If you don’t believe in god, then you live in a universe without a god. Art is like that. Now, I’m not saying that if you don’t believe in blue Tupperware then the world contains no blue Tupperware; I’m only talking about things like god and art and love. If a piece of art speaks to me and affects me, then it is a great piece of art, _unequivocally._ I’m not saying that if I find David Lynch a great artist, then everyone else must conform to that opinion and acknowledge the unequivocal nature of his greatness; I just wish more people would acknowledge in such discussions the subjectivity of such judgments; say “I don’t like David Lynch’s work because . . .” rather than “David Lynch is an overrated hack.” ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/47 "2003-05-30T17:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Miller \* > \*\ ***Ogre** : I don’t know if Lars Von Trier is the best example. Lets face it, if you have an opinion one way or the other on Von Trier, you’re probably the sort of person who’s willing to get into a serious debate on cinema 24/7. Sometime you just want lighter fare. I loved Star Wars. But I don’t necessarily always want to think about why I love Star Wars, you know? Sometimes I just want to talk about how cool it was with like-minded friends. > > Even then, though, I don’t get too pissed when someone drops in just to disagree. That’s not such a big deal, and not really The Big Offence. What really annoys are the drive-bys that don’t add anything. If you said, > > And someone came by with > > And _nothing else_. No reason, no defence, no follow up. Just state an opinion and never come back. Who gives a shit? Who are you, and why should I care about your opinion? At least make a good Monica blow-job joke so I know you’ve got some approximation of wit and therefore might be worth listening to.\* And for God’s sake, _follow-up_. Don’t just drop a load in the thread and wander off, never to return. > > \*With that in mind, **plnnr** ’s Racer X joke was pretty good. \*\* Fair enough, **Miller**. It makes me feel a little better that, as far as I know, I’ve never simply sniped like that. I usually try to explain myself a little. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/48 "2003-05-30T17:22:28Z")
The threads I’m talking about aren’t neccessarily “love-fests”. There was a recent thread about the season finale of Friends. There were many comments on the episode and not all were complimentary. Those who were not complimentary did not piss me off. It was those who entered the thread _just to look down their noses at the posters who watched Friends_ that pissed me off. _I hated the episode. It was predictable and not funny at all._–a valid opinion. _This show should have been cancelled after the first season. I can’t believe people still watch it._– a pompous and self-inflating post. I think the difference is that the criticism isn’t about the movie, show or music. The snide, negative remarks is really aimed at the posters whose idea of entertainment doesn’t jibe with the snarky poster. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/49 "2003-05-30T17:43:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*. . . I think the difference is that the criticism isn’t about the movie, show or music. The snide, negative remarks is really aimed at the posters whose idea of entertainment doesn’t jibe with the snarky poster. \*\* What she said. This is another angle on the same point I made above, BG: it’s always about the viewer, not the art. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/50 "2003-05-30T18:17:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*Sorry, I hit submit a little early there. > > I stated an opinon based on repeated viewings. My daughter loves it, I couldn’t find anything to like. Hardly worth the effort you took, but it is your time to waste. \*\* Can you articulate _why_ you didn’t like it? Because if all you can come up with is a vague “ick” then perhaps you lack the critical skills to have your opinion taken seriously. I don’t mind negative comments in threads that contain sustantive critical analysis. For example, you could have said “I prefer stories with a strong narrative arc and Totoro’s episodic structure and lack of strong character conflict bored me.” To which someone (like me) could have countered: “But Myazaki’s loose story structure actually adds to the experience by creating a sort of timeless endless-summer-day mood that enhances the magical feeling of the movie.” Then there would be something to talk about and people might learn something good (or bad) about the movie. Instead you said (essentially) “Listen up you boobs, such kiddie fare is boring. You’d realize this is you were a sophisticate like me.” The OP in this thread is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/51 "2003-05-30T18:26:26Z")
Apologies for my previous typos. Corrections: “Miyazaki” - and - “… _if_ you were a sophisticate like me.” ---
**Author:** ![rmbnxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rmbnxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rmbnxs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/52 "2003-05-30T19:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*[url=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=187190](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=187190)”]OK. Can I just say this kind of thing really bugs me? > > On two counts. > > First, what can it possibly benefit you, plnnr, to stick your head into a lovefest for something that holds no interest for you, only to _share_ the fact that it holds no interest for you? You’re obviously speaking almost exclusively to people who disagree with you, so where’s your thrill? If I see a thread title inviting fellow fans to glurg over something that I find lame, then I consider myself off the guest list and avoid the thread; the alternative is nothing but rude, in my opinion. I’m not suggesting that there are rules that any such thread is off limits to me—nor even yet to you, plnnr, so don’t waste our time with any first amendment garbage, unless you weren’t going to, in which case nevermind—I’m only suggesting that it’s rude and childish. > > It’s to be hoped, I would think, that Dopers will participate in threads to which they have something substantive to contribute; to the extent to which a post is more noise than signal, it’s annoying to the rest of us. > > In the second place, this gets another of my goats (I’m runnin out of goats here). All art is subject to opinion. There can’t possibly be one single work of art, in the history of mankind, that EVERYBODY likes. This doesn’t mean that some people are right and some people are wrong. It may mean that some people get it or some people don’t; or some people see it from one perspective and some people see it from another; or that some people were dropped on their heads and some people weren’t. Getting the common thread here? The difference of opinion on any particular piece of art is 100% a reflection of the viewer, not of the artwork. OK? Every work of art is a Rorschach test. No exceptions, again I say 100%: it’s about the viewer of the art, not the artist. > > So (getting a little further afield here, plnnr; you did not _quite_ do this, so please feel free to bow out at this point), I really HATE it when someone comes into a thread like this and implies that they are smarter or better for NOT liking something that someone else likes. > > It’s rude, it’s insulting, and it’s often cruel; and it serves only one purpose: to make the critic feel bigger by belittling others. (Again, plnnr, not you here.) > > If you see nothing of value in something that others DO find valuable, that doesn’t mean that you have clearer vision. In fact, it might just mean that you have LESS clear vision. To imply otherwise is to imply that those who see something you don’t are imagining, or worse yet inventing, that thing which you for whatever reason of context or culture fail to recognize. > > Why can’t more people say, in such an instance, “You know, I just don’t get [X movie/book/song/whatever]; it just didn’t speak to me,” instead of “You LIKED that movie? It SUCKED! That was the worst piece of crap that’s every made it to the big screen!” > > The THIRD thing I hate about this (did I mention there were three things?) is the whole “Speed Racer” bullshit you hear from Anime uninitiates. I have a friend who says he can’t stand to watch ANY Anime because “they all have the same eyes.” And get this—the guy’s a WALT DISNEY fan, for chrissakes. Hasn’t he ever noticed that Disney heroines only have one style of eye? So what? So “anime” has a recognizable visual style? What the dripping bloody hell does that matter? _Totoro_ is a masterpiece of writing, of characterization, of detail, of every frikkin thing you can think of, except perhaps for eyes. So focus on the eyes and REFUSE to see anything beyond that; it’s your own feet your shooting yourself in. > > People who hold artistic ignorance up as some kind of badge of honor really get on my tits. \*\* [Link deleted. Lynn] ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/53 "2003-05-30T20:23:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > > * * * Hampsters ate my post-- warning that moronic link is not remotely safe for work. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/54 "2003-05-30T21:10:04Z")
Sorry lissener, but I disagree with your OP. Cafe Society is a public forum, not a fan club. Frankly, I get tired of the people who get all bent out of shape whenever anyone criticizes their “favorite show”. If they didn’t criticize _you_ personally, then you shouldn’t _take_ it personally. A lot of times I will open a thread that seems to be a love-fest for a particular show or movie, and I’m thinking to myself “Dang, that show is awful”, and then I come across a post saying how bad it is, and I kind of chuckle to myself and breathe a sigh of relief that I’m not nuts. But often, the pile-on starts, with all the glurgers hurling personal insults at the poor soul who dared to break up their little party. Just get over yourselves, people. Sometimes the language one uses to describe something needs to be reflective of how bad the thing is. For example, if a person says they are a big fan of The Flinstones, the only appropriate response is to point out that that cartoon is a poorly-animated, unoriginal, banal piece of shit. Strong language is needed to convey just how bad it is. I don’t care _how_ many people like it, it’s still garbage. Now, if I said YOU are a piece of shit because you like the Flinstones - by all means you ought to put my balls in a meat-grinder. Otherwise, just accept that other people have differing opinions and get on with your life. For crying out loud, let people express their opinion. If you don’t like it, skip to the next frigging post. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/55 "2003-05-30T21:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Because if all you can come up with is a vague “ick” then perhaps you lack the critical skills to have your opinion taken seriously. well if we are going to attack that, you also have to attack people who chime in and say “i liked it” then offer no more information as well. Only to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/56 "2003-05-30T21:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*For example, if a person says they are a big fan of The Flinstones, the only appropriate response is to point out that that cartoon is a poorly-animated, unoriginal, banal piece of shit. Strong language is needed to convey just how bad it is. I don’t care _how_ many people like it, it’s still garbage. \*\* No, the only appropriate response would be no response at all. Why shit all over a “big fan of the Flintstones” thread? Don’t agree? Don’t post. IOW, just accept that other people have differing opinions and get on with your life. Frankly, I get tired of people whose only purpose in posting is to look down their noses at everyone else having a good time. FTR, I liked The Flinstones. It was always good for a humorous “work sucks” aside from one of the appliances, so “banal piece of shit” simply one opinion, one that contributes nothing to a “big fan of the Flintstones” thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/57 "2003-05-30T21:49:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*well if we are going to attack that, you also have to attack people who chime in and say “i liked it” then offer no more information as well. Only to be fair. \*\* I agree. Just chiming in with “Yeah, that movie was great!” is just as pointless. Maybe someone should start a thread titled “Vacuous positivity in Cafe Society threads” … . It’s fun to take movies apart and talk about what parts worked and what parts didn’t and why. But a bunch of people sitting around saying “I liked it” or “I hated it”? That’s not fun, it’s fucking boring. I don’t care if you liked the movie or not … I want you to tell me something that can deepen my understanding of it. If you can’t do that you should keep your mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/58 "2003-05-30T22:11:42Z")
I wrote the opening post re **My Neighbor Totoro** that prompted **plnnr’s** response. I’m a relative newbie here. For the record, I started the thread cuz I’d just seen a movie I really liked, and wanted to share how I felt with the Cafe Society folks. (Call me crazy, but I really like Cafe Society.) If somebody wants to talk about how the movie _didn’t_ do anything for them and possibly to tell us why, that’s ok by me too. Sometimes it will give me a different perspective on things. Different viewpoints, different ways of thinking, etc. However, don’t try to tell me I’m a moron for liking something you didn’t like. That’s not so cool. I’m certainly not going to tell (e.g.) **Survivor** fans that they shouldn’t watch shows like that. I don’t watch it, but that’s cuz I don’t find the premise interesting. But that’s just me, and just my opinion. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/59 "2003-05-30T22:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > No, the only appropriate response would be no response at all. Why shit all over a “big fan of the Flintstones” thread? Don’t agree? Don’t post. Or alternately, start your own thread. “Hitler, Stalin, Fred Flinstone–Who was history’s greatest monster?” ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376/60 "2003-05-30T23:00:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dooku \* > \*\*No, the only appropriate response would be no response at all. Why shit all over a “big fan of the Flintstones” thread? Don’t agree? Don’t post. IOW, just accept that other people have differing opinions and get on with your life. Frankly, I get tired of people whose only purpose in posting is to look down their noses at everyone else having a good time. > > \*\* I’m really not getting this at all. Some folks seem to be complaining about a person posting once disagreeing w/o explanation (“dude, _Flintstones_ sucks camel ass”), others seem to be claiming that folks are ‘shitting’ all over a thread. way I see it, public message board, general stuff = better believe there’s going to be a divergence of opinion. I could see the point if you were posting at “Teletubbies Fan Board”, about how wonderfully agile Po is compared to Tinky Winky and a poster threw in a “Po sux”. Or, even here, if you had a thread extolling the deep inner meanings to La-La’s mumblings, and some one came in posting every other post to complain that Dipsy’s masters thesis was all that and a bag of chips. 'cause that would be a hijacking of the thread. But - ya open a thread in Cafe Society fer cryin out loud, where the **function** is to discuss art, tv, movie, theater etc, - a **subjective** subject if there ever was one, and bleat when some one posts an opposing view in your thread. If it’s several posts from the same person hijacking it, that’s a valid complaint IMHO. If it’s a drive by that you don’t agree with, so the fuck what? They needed your permission to post a differing opinion? They needed a discourse of epic proportions in order to justify **having** a different opinion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pompous-negativity-in-cafe-society-threads/178376.md?page=4)