# Poor grammar in music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 17, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537 "2007-09-17T20:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/41 "2007-09-18T14:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] If my tone came across as a personal insult directed at you, then I apologize for that. However, you have been taught, through no fault of your own, an appallingly widespread but absolutely incorrect fact about the rules of English. \ [/QUOTE] Given the changeable nature of the English language, if it’s that widespread, hasn’t it become the rule? ---
**Author:** ![Mayo\_Speaks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mayo\_Speaks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayo_Speaks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/42 "2007-09-18T14:40:06Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **silenus** > “But in this ever changing world in which we live in…” According to McCartney, it’s “… in which we’re livin’.” [/QUOTE] But then the first part would still be wrong. The actual line is “When this ever changing world in which we’re living…” which is grammatically correct. Otherwise the next line “…makes you give in and cry,” wouldn’t make any sense at all. I nominate John Mellencamp’s “Small Town”: “No I cannot forget \*\*from \*\*where it is that I come **from** …” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/43 "2007-09-18T15:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=McNew] Given the changeable nature of the English language, if it’s that widespread, hasn’t it become the rule? [/QUOTE] No, the usage is not widespread, just the notion that there is such a rule. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/44 "2007-09-18T15:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=cochrane] The first song that came to mind when I read the thread title: [“You ain’t seen nothing yet.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Ain%27t_Seen_Nothing_Yet) [/QUOTE] That expression was used long before the song was written. When someone says “You’ll really good” and you say “You ain’t seen nothing yet,” it means the best is yet to come. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/45 "2007-09-18T15:45:42Z")
[QUOTE=Patty O’Furniture] The song she sang to me. The song she brang to me. [/QUOTE] Exactly. It should be “The song she _sung_ to me. The song she _brung_ to me.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/46 "2007-09-18T15:48:11Z")
In the same thought, there’s Kristopherson’s There’s still lots of drinks that I ain’t drunk There’s lots of pretty thoughts that I ain’t thunk Oh Yeah, And Lord there’s still so many lonely girls In this best of all possible worlds. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/47 "2007-09-18T15:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] The most prominent example that grates on my ears, more from the utter sincerity and clarity with which it’s sung than from egregious grammer breakitude: Other songs may have worse breakages but are not so prominently placed in the song. [/QUOTE] I notice that too when I hear that song. This particular grammar point is one that always annoys me and I see it more and more (not just in songs.) ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/48 "2007-09-18T15:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] No, the usage is not widespread, just the notion that there is such a rule. [/QUOTE] To clarify this, in case anyone should misinterpret its first part, what **Frylock** is saying is that, in terms of actual usage, the brute facts of how people actually speak, it is not widespread to avoid using “less” with countables; rather, it is quite widespread to use both “less” and “fewer” with countables, and always has been. However, in terms of consciously enunciated “rules”, there is now a widespread notion that one should avoid using “less” with countables, using only “fewer” instead. Yet, despite this being a commonly voiced claim, it is not an accurate description of actual common usage, and never has been. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/49 "2007-09-18T16:37:26Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] Personally I find that to be a pretty clever play with words. Not only did he write her off, but he did it “on the wall.” It’s a metaphor emphasizing how insensitive the guy was, as though writing about her on a (presumable) bathroom wall. You don’t get it? [/quote] Y’know, it is aggravating and frequently an error to assume that a person who disagrees with your point does not “get it.” I’m just thrilled to death that you find it a pretty clever play on words; I find it an aggravatingly obvious example of mixed metaphors. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I’ve heard lots of examples of such grammar, but I don’t really get upset about it. It’s just pop music, not a university thesis. Then why are you in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/50 "2007-09-18T17:00:14Z")
I think the basic problem with many songwriters it they don’t put in the work necessary to produce good lyrics. Thus we have crap that doesn’t scan worth diddly and forced rhymes. How often have we heard someone say, “I was sittin’ in my room and this song came to me - in fifteen minutes it was done”? I suspect most pop songwriters never go beyond what serious writers would consider a first draft. The use of substandard grammar _per se_ does not bother me if it used intentionally for a certain effect. (“You ain’t seen nothing yet” is, after all, a common phrase, wretched as it may be as a paragon of English usage.) ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/51 "2007-09-18T17:20:52Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Y’know, it is aggravating and frequently an error to assume that a person who disagrees with your point does not “get it.” I’m just thrilled to death that you find it a pretty clever play on words; I find it an aggravatingly obvious example of mixed metaphors. [/QUOTE] With all due respect (which is a lot, because I admire your posts), I was left with the impression from your original comment that you think TLC didn’t get it, not just that you were unhappy with their choice of words. Back OT, there are 2Pac lyrics that bug me to no end as well: > [@2Pac](#): > > Shall God return me to my essence? > 'Cuz even as an adolescence, I refuse to be a convalecent Oh, 2Pac – you were so much better than that! It drives me batty because he had two different ways to make that correct, and chose neither. Maybe he just got confused in the moment? ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/52 "2007-09-18T17:31:15Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] A desperately wrong word choice would be Alanis Morisette’s titling of the song **Ironic**. None of the examples of _irony_ in the song are actually examples of irony, just misfortune. [/QUOTE] thus, the irony? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/53 "2007-09-18T17:41:01Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Y’know, it is aggravating and frequently an error to assume that a person who disagrees with your point does not “get it.” I’m just thrilled to death that you find it a pretty clever play on words; I find it an aggravatingly obvious example of mixed metaphors. [/QUOTE] Well, you did say that the only way it made sense would be if they’re “talking about someone writing “ME OFF” on a wall.” So, yeah, it did sound like you didn’t “get it.” Also, I think the second phrase they’re going for is not, “off the wall,” but rather, “the writing on the wall.” Which seems a pretty clever pairing, to me. Generally, a mixed metaphor is a combination of metaphors that either makes no sense, or whose meaning is directly contradictory. In this case, the two metaphors work together to create an additional level of meaning. Strikes me as a pretty clever bit of songwriting, IMO. At any rate, there’s certainly nothing _grammatically_ wrong with it. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/54 "2007-09-18T17:50:40Z")
Take That- Patience “The one that I could always depend” not “The one I could always depend on” which still scans. no…“The one that I could always depend” yuck. ---
**Author:** ![zyzzyva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@zyzzyva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zyzzyva)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/55 "2007-09-18T18:19:50Z")
I’m pretty sure this one’s error-free: [Bass Line Dada - Grammarians ‘R’ Pissed](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qJds1tHrk0) (link to YouTube vid) Well, except for the title, at least. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/56 "2007-09-22T00:53:19Z")
I’m amazed that no ones posted “We dont need no education” by the Floyd. Personally I refuse to buy any music where the grammar or pronunciation is suspect,it just ,you know totally ruins it for me . Saying that though I’ve been toying with the idea of releasing “Me no dumb Fuck,who you fink dat you are” under the name of Detritus (once the copyright problems are sorted out with T.P.) As someone who speaks naturally with very mild glottal stops it really irritates me that it is now considered trendy by middle class singers and even those from the midlands for ogs sake to fake them in song . I imagine that its equally annoying for Afro Americans when white people sing in a pretend black accent. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/57 "2007-09-22T01:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] The most prominent example that grates on my ears, more from the utter sincerity and clarity with which it’s sung than from egregious grammer breakitude: DOORS: If I was to say to you, girl we couldn’t get much higher. Other songs may have worse breakages but are not so prominently placed in the song. [/QUOTE] Heh, what exactly is he trying to get across? If he was to say X to her, they couldn’t get much higher? Or that if he was to tell her that they couldn’t get much higher, some unknown, unstated consequence would happen? ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/58 "2007-09-22T02:28:50Z")
I’ve been subjected to “The Lion King” pretty much daily for about the last two months, and one of the songs in that (Scar’s solo, “Be Prepared”) is absolutely rife with language errors (apart from making me want to break out in Tom Lehrer songs for the rest of the day (in itself, no bad thing) “I know that your powers of retention Are as wet as a warthog’s backside” (Misused metaphor) “And injustice deliciously squared” (another one) “Decades of denial Is simply why I’ll Be king” (Are! Are, you fools! Not to mention ‘doesn’t make sense’) …and a myriad of other offenses against lyrics too trivial to mention here. I really can’t work out what happened with that song - the rest of them are pretty okay as far as grammar and sense go. Possibly just the strain of making it rhyme everywhere… ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/59 "2007-09-22T07:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] I’m amazed that no ones posted “We dont need no education” by the Floyd. [/QUOTE] I just took it as deliberate irony, as “Teacher, leave them kids alone” ends the refrain. Kids using poor grammer to rail against their teacher/school - it works for me. Poor grammar in lyrics doesn’t bother me at all, sometimes it won’t work any other way. I once saw a TV comedian do an impression of James Brown, the grammarian: “I feel well!” ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2007, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537/60 "2007-09-22T09:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=Pine Fresh Scent] I just took it as deliberate irony, as “Teacher, leave them kids alone” ends the refrain. Kids using poor grammer to rail against their teacher/school - it works for me. Poor grammar in lyrics doesn’t bother me at all, sometimes it won’t work any other way. I once saw a TV comedian do an impression of James Brown, the grammarian: “I feel well!” [/QUOTE] I was joking about not buying anything with grammatically poor lyrics(if it was the case I’d probably never ever bought so much as a single record). I 99% agree about The Wall (though theres always just a little element of doubt in the back of my mind )but the O.P.was about BG lyrics not if they were intentional or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/poor-grammar-in-music/419537.md?page=4)