# Pop bands with real musical genius **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053 "2007-09-04T22:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Sug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9f8e36/32.png) [@Daniel\_Sug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel_Sug)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/41 "2007-09-05T03:25:57Z")
I whole-heartedly agree with all the mentions of Oingo Boingo and Queen made so far. Why Danny Elfman didn’t become the biggest rock star with his voice and those songs, I’ll never understand. 'course, he’s got a pretty good thing going, already. My contributions: \*\*No Doubt \*\* made an incredible pop album with Tragic Kingdom. While maybe not considered genuis level, this one was fun, creative, and surprisingly well-rounded. Everything since has been good, but hasn’t captured the same magic as this one. **They Might Be Giants** make great pop tunes. True, not for everyone, but you can’t deny their talent when it comes to The Art of Writing the Perfect Pop Song. **Weird Al Yankovic** –this man has the best job in the world. He can do whatever he wants, regardless of style, and no one will ever criticize him for ‘artistic credibility.’ He manages to not just copy another artist’s song/style(anyone can play a cover), but he manages to capture the essence of what made the original so good/popular/fun/etc. His own songwriting has improved dramatically over the years–the originals starting from the mid-90s on always blow my hair back. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/42 "2007-09-05T03:34:28Z")
Billy Corgan’s a bit on the metal side of pop, but he’s got to be up there. My god, he made Hole decent for a short time. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/43 "2007-09-05T03:37:52Z")
\*\*Billy Joel Brian Setzer\*\* are two that come to mind that I haven’t seen mentioned yet - Also, Meatloaf (whatever his real name is) is seen in alot of credits. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/44 "2007-09-05T03:39:20Z")
d’ohplicate post!!! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/45 "2007-09-05T03:46:11Z")
Okay, I shouldn’t have said I was interested in specifically pop music. I don’t want to miss out on an artist just because he or she might not be deemed to produce pop music. I’m really just interested in finding contemporary musicians whose musical compositions are brilliant. So I guess we can feel free to expand our repertoire into other non-pop genres. And why not? Great music is great music. By God, I’ve even been known to pop Captain Hume’s Poeticall Musicke into the CD player on occasion! ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/46 "2007-09-05T03:58:06Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] My choice would be XTC (Andy Partridge and, to a lesser extent, Colin Moulding being the songwriters). [/QUOTE] Truer words were never spoken on this board. If there was any justice in the world, **XTC** would have been the biggest thing since The Beatles. Damn you Richard Branson! Let me add **Rockpile** to the list - Dave Edmunds and Nick Lowe. Both brilliant songwriters. **Squeeze** is equally deserving of a mention. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/47 "2007-09-05T04:12:56Z")
How about Robyn Hitchcock? He put out great music with the Soft Boys and the Egyptians, and he’s still writing and recording some great pop songs. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/48 "2007-09-05T04:22:03Z")
I guess we’re talking about quality and consistency of original song composition? I won’t duplicate others’ nominations, so I’ll just add Elvis Costello, Ian Anderson, Roger Waters (Pink Floyd era), Patti Smith, David Byrne, Elton John/Bernie Taupin, Leonard Cohen, John Fogerty, Randy Newman, Ones I considered but rejected for various reasons like lack of diversity, lack of originality, or group rather than individual effort were Neil Young, Michael Stipe, David Bowie, The Doors, Van Morrison, Cream, Led Zeppelin. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/49 "2007-09-05T04:26:38Z")
the band that popped into my head immediately upon reading the title of the thread was **The Police**. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/50 "2007-09-05T04:47:48Z")
Jim Steinman has, in my opinion, put together some great songs and arrangements, Meatloaf’s **Bat out of Hell Two** being the pinacle of his work. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/51 "2007-09-05T04:50:50Z")
[QUOTE=InternetLegend] How about Robyn Hitchcock? He put out great music with the Soft Boys and the Egyptians, and he’s still writing and recording some great pop songs. [/QUOTE] I’m a huge Robyn fan, but I don’t necessarily think he’s a musical genius the way a lot of the artists mentioned here are. Lyrically (and stage-patter-wise), he’d definitely make the list. But I don’t think he’s all that innovative composition- or arrangement-wise. He’s great, to be sure. But I wouldn’t put him in the same league as Lennon/McCartney. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/52 "2007-09-05T05:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] Anyway, if you can’t see the influence The Beatles have had on damn near everyone who followed, or understand how it was essential to rock/pop as we’ve known it for the past 40 years, I guess no amount of evidence is going to persuade you. That doesn’t mean you personally have to enjoy them, BTW. [/QUOTE] Even if we agreed on this, it does not follow that without the Beatles, none of the musicians I listed above would have written great (using the word in the OP) music. I’ll agree that many might or would have writte _different_ music, but that’s not the same thing. And in any case, one can be influential without ‘composing truly great music’ (the OP’s words) or demonstrating ‘musical and compositional creativity and innovation’ (mine). This is where I certainly feel the Beatles fall short. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/53 "2007-09-05T06:10:30Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Okay, I shouldn’t have said I was interested in specifically pop music. I don’t want to miss out on an artist just because he or she might not be deemed to produce pop music. I’m really just interested in finding contemporary musicians whose musical compositions are brilliant. So I guess we can feel free to expand our repertoire into other non-pop genres. And why not? Great music is great music. [/QUOTE] Dude, TOTALLY different thread. In fact, you should start it. I mean, Scott Walker is a musical genius in a **completely** different way than, say, Kenny Edmonds. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/54 "2007-09-05T06:39:48Z")
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird] I’m a huge Robyn fan, but I don’t necessarily think he’s a musical genius the way a lot of the artists mentioned here are. Lyrically (and stage-patter-wise), he’d definitely make the list. But I don’t think he’s all that innovative composition- or arrangement-wise. He’s great, to be sure. But I wouldn’t put him in the same league as Lennon/McCartney. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. The stuff he did with the Soft Boys on _Underwater Moonlight_ is pop genius to me. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/55 "2007-09-05T10:02:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I dunno. I mean, in principle it seems like a good idea–let the critics rank the artists and songs. But when I clicked on the top songs for 2006, “Maneater” and “Promiscuous” by Nelly Furtado were both in the top 15. I popped over to Amazon to give them a listen, and my reaction was :dubious: . But I’ll poke around that site some more and see what I can find. [/QUOTE] Yeah, agreed. The critics seem way to eager to show that they can appreciate popular R&B and rap. But really, the top artist and top album lists are very good. And they are the combined opinion of hundreds of professional critics, not just the random opinion of some guy on a message board. I have myself now listened to all the top100 albums from the list, and even if I don’t personally like all of them, I can see that almost all of them are probably very good musically. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/56 "2007-09-05T10:30:41Z")
My choice would be **Scott Miller** , who fronted **Game Theory** and **Loud Family**. His songs are dense, wildly creative, beautiful and brainy. Never got a whiff of pop success, because he’s just too good. [http://www.125records.com/loudfamily/](http://www.125records.com/loudfamily/) ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/57 "2007-09-05T10:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I don’t know. The stuff he did with the Soft Boys on _Underwater Moonlight_ is pop genius to me. [/QUOTE] Hey I’m the Soft Boys fan here\* . I’ve lost touch with Hitchcock’s more recent work but I’d think you’d have trouble including him in a list of songwriting geniuses (which he’d top with Dylan, Lennon and Syd ) because of his unconventional (to say the least) lyrics, they’re just offputting to a lot of people. The general public have a limited appetite for songs about sea creatures. So Robyn doesn’t quite make it. Anyhoo I’d include Syd, Pete Townshend and Paul Simon(tho’ I’m not really a fan). _Some days I prefer Can of Bees to Moonlight, but basically it’s all good_\* \*\*except maybe School Dinner Blues, that’s just unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Leechboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc348/32.png) [@Leechboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leechboy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/58 "2007-09-05T11:21:29Z")
Where’s the love for **Love**? Forever Changes is pretty much regarded as a classic these days. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/59 "2007-09-05T13:26:28Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] Dude, TOTALLY different thread. In fact, you should start it. I mean, Scott Walker is a musical genius in a **completely** different way than, say, Kenny Edmonds. [/QUOTE] Dammit! I can’t even run my own thread properly! I would have made a terrible Napoleon. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053/60 "2007-09-05T13:44:50Z")
I wouldn’t quite call him a genius, but **Stew** , a singer-songwriter who sometimes performs alone and sometimes with his band the “Negro Problem”, has been compared to Cole Porter for some of the witty, inventive, yet poppy melodic/lyric pieces that he sometimes puts out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-bands-with-real-musical-genius/418053.md?page=4)