# Pop Culture Pulse Check **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559 "2010-10-18T15:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/21 "2010-10-18T17:58:36Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > One caveat on Lady Gaga: I’ve seen her, I know she sings, and I know she dresses outrageously, but I couldn’t pick out any of her songs at all. Me, too. On the other hand, I’m probably getting close to having read everything that Gaiman’s ever written. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/22 "2010-10-18T17:59:51Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Of course I know who Lady Gaga is. > > As for Neil, I only know who he is because I have a Sandman comic. Haven’t bought any others because I didn’t particularly care for the first one. If you didn’t like the first compilation, I don’t blame you. But it got better. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/23 "2010-10-18T18:23:35Z")
> [@Dr.Rieux](#): > > Why are they in the same poll? > Gaiman’s been well known for about twenty years. Gaga’s been hot for–what, a few months? Yet I know who Gaga is (through no effort on my own) and I only know of Gaiman’s name because I’ve seen it on this board countless times. If I wasn’t on the Dope I’d have never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/24 "2010-10-18T19:15:47Z")
Never heard Neil Gaiman’s name before (though I have heard of the Sandman books). Heard of the other one and know what she does, though have as much respect for her as I do for that which I trod in yesterday while walking the puppy. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/25 "2010-10-18T19:22:40Z")
> [@Dr.Rieux](#): > > Why are they in the same poll? > Gaiman’s been well known for about twenty years. Gaga’s been hot for–what, a few months? Two years. And though I love Gaiman, his influence is negligible compared to Gaga, who I don’t like at all. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/26 "2010-10-18T20:59:15Z")
I just realized I forgot to link the thread in question from the OP. [Here’s the post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13025757&postcount=55) that triggered the discussion on whether or not Neil Gaiman is a part of pop culture. > [@Marley23](#): > > Done. Now, was that Lady Gaga one supposed to say “she,” or should I correct that one, too? 😉 Thanks, and hardeeharhar. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I dunno about these two being bellwethers for pop culture awareness. The point is that I don’t think Neil Gaiman is part of the pop culture vocabulary, while Lady Gaga is. The former was supplied by another poster; the latter was someone I pulled out of my ass as being very “of the moment.” > [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I’ve only known who Lady Gaga is and what she does for a handful of months, but only because I saw her getting made fun of randomly in some places (like failblog and South Park) so I looked her up just so I knew what the hell they were talking about. That kind of media attention, to me, is what defines pop culture. > [@](#): > > I have no idea who Neil Gaiman is. I even looked him up before responding and I don’t recognize any of his most notable works except for Coraline. And even with Coraline, I only recognize as a movie that I didn’t see, and I had no idea it was a book first. And it’s responses like this that make me say that Neil Gaiman is not part of popular culture. > [@Dr.Rieux](#): > > Why are they in the same poll? > Gaiman’s been well known for about twenty years. Gaga’s been hot for–what, a few months? Because someone said that anybody conversant with popular culture should know who Neil Gaiman is, and I strongly disagree with that assertion. I think that Neil Gaiman is a very big name _in certain circles_–not in pop culture. Lady Gaga, on the other hand, pretty much personifies pop culture. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I personally would place _Sandman_–the whole series considered as a single work for the same reason I would consider _Lord of the Rings_ a single book–in the top ten of 20th century literature. All due respect to your taste in literature, but if you think \*Sandman \*is in the top 10 of the past hundred years, IMO you should \*really \*consider expanding your reading horizons. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/27 "2010-10-18T21:03:55Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I can easily see being unimpressed by a single issue of the comic taken out of context. Taken out of context? Do you mean that in the same way that watching _Batman Begins_ would be out of context unless you watched it along with _The Dark Knight_? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/28 "2010-10-18T21:04:48Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The point is that I don’t think Neil Gaiman is part of the pop culture vocabulary, while Lady Gaga is. The former was supplied by another poster; the latter was someone I pulled out of my ass as being very “of the moment.” The fact that this is even up for debate shows just how much this place is out of step with popular culture. Neil Gaiman is a respected author among comic book fans and various literary types, but he’s pretty well unknown outside of them. If anything, he’ll probably go down in “pop culture” annals as a children’s author after the success of Coraline (and its namesake movie) and The Graveyard Book (which won the Newbery). ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/29 "2010-10-18T21:12:26Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The fact that this is even up for debate shows just how much this place is out of step with popular culture. Neil Gaiman is a respected author among comic book fans and various literary types, but he’s pretty well unknown outside of them. > > If anything, he’ll probably go down in “pop culture” annals as a children’s author after the success of Coraline (and its namesake movie) and The Graveyard Book (which won the Newbery). Let’s not forget the posters in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=578510) who somehow thought that Octomom and JonBenét Ramsey were more famous than Lady Gaga. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/30 "2010-10-18T21:30:32Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Taken out of context? Do you mean that in the same way that watching _Batman Begins_ would be out of context unless you watched it along with _The Dark Knight_? I think the point is that \*Sandman \*is very arc-based, and it was a bit slow to start. So if all you read was a single issue, or even the first TPB, you missed the best bits. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The fact that this is even up for debate shows just how much this place is out of step with popular culture. Neil Gaiman is a respected author among comic book fans and various literary types, but he’s pretty well unknown outside of them. Indeed. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Let’s not forget the posters in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=578510) who somehow thought that Octomom and JonBenét Ramsey were more famous than Lady Gaga. I’d say they’re both firmly ensconced in the history U.S. pop culture, or were at one point. (And both more so than Neil Gaiman.) I doubt that they’re as well known abroad, nor that they’re as well known as she is right now even in the U.S. alone. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/31 "2010-10-18T21:30:36Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Taken out of context? Do you mean that in the same way that watching _Batman Begins_ would be out of context unless you watched it along with _The Dark Knight_? I don’t think so. (I haven’t seen _Batman Begins_ myself, so I don’t really know.) _Sandman_ is a single story told over some 70-odd comic issues (or 10 book collections), with a rich and complex web of allusions, foreshadowings, and parallels connecting the various parts. Something like Babylon 5 might be a better comparison, insofar as you won’t “get it” by watching an episode or two. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > All due respect to your taste in literature, but if you think \*Sandman \*is in the top 10 of the past hundred years, IMO you should \*really \*consider expanding your reading horizons. A snotty, presumptuous, and condescending remark like that neither signals nor deserves any respect whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/32 "2010-10-18T21:31:27Z")
I know of both. I have a bunch of Gaiman stuff and I enjoy a couple of Lady Gaga’s songs. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/33 "2010-10-18T21:36:05Z")
I’m not going to give him an entire series to entice me. He’s got to show me that he’s worth spending money on in the first comic or I won’t bother with him. If it’s great as a series I can respect that but if I disliked the first book I doubt that my mind would have been substantially changed. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/34 "2010-10-18T21:36:34Z")
I agree with \*\*SFG \*\*- Gaga is a full-on crossover pop culture phenomenon; Gaiman is huge within ComicCon circles but virtually unheardof outside that… I also agree with \*\*SFG \*\*about Gaiman as a writer (American Gods was fun from page to page but doesn’t hold up as a story at all), but that is not the point to this OP…regardless of his actual talent, we aren’t going to hear about whether Gaiman showed up at an MTV show in a meat suit… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/35 "2010-10-18T21:43:56Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Taken out of context? Do you mean that in the same way that watching _Batman Begins_ would be out of context unless you watched it along with _The Dark Knight_? More like watching a single episode of _Lost_. I don’t like \*Sandman \*either, personally, but I really like his novels and short stories. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Let’s not forget the posters in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=578510) who somehow thought that Octomom and JonBenét Ramsey were more famous than Lady Gaga. I think you mean \*\*devilsknew \*\*instead of posters. Isn’t he the same guy that thought bermuda shorts were the same thing as Daisy Dukes, or something? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/36 "2010-10-18T21:45:05Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > More like watching a single episode of Lost. If by “a single episode” you mean “the first episode”, then sure. I watched the first episode of Lost and didn’t enjoy it, either, and that’s what led me to not watch any others. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/37 "2010-10-18T21:48:10Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > A snotty, presumptuous, and condescending remark like that neither signals nor deserves any respect whatsoever. What’s the rest of your top 10, then? I can tell you quite honestly that I couldn’t give you a list, but I can tell you that it would have to be at least an order of magnitude larger for anything by Gaiman to be on it. While he writes \*very good, very enjoyable \*fiction, I don’t think any of it comes close to the art or complexity of the works of the \*truly greatest \*authors of the 20th century. Here, _off the top of my head_, I’ll give you ten books from the 20th century that I think were better than _Sandman_: _Midnight’s Children_, Salman Rushdie _Remains of the Day_, Kazuo Ishiguro _Things Fall Apart_, Chinua Achebe _The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle_, Haruki Murakami _The Unbearable Lightness of Being_, Milan Kundera _Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids_, Kenzaburo Oe _The Crying of Lot 49_, Thomas Pynchon _A Confederacy of Dunces_, John Kenndy Toole _Catch-22_, Joseph Heller _Ulysses_, James Joyce Please tell me which of these books you think \*Sandman \*is better than, and why. (Because you believe it’s one of the top ten, it must be better than at least one of these.) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/38 "2010-10-18T21:51:16Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > If by “a single episode” you mean “the first episode”, then sure. I watched the first episode of Lost and didn’t enjoy it, either, and that’s what led me to not watch any others. 😛 No. I meant a single episode. You didn’t indicate what issue of Sandman you read, but if it’s something from the middle, I am sure it would make as much sense as something from the season of Lost where everyone was living in two concurrent timelines. It takes investment, and I’m not saying you have to read a dozen issues, or watch a full season of shows. There’s a lot more out there that I am sure would grab you immediately. I’m just explaining why a single episode from who knows when in the arc isn’t a good launchpad for a neophyte. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/39 "2010-10-18T21:54:37Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’m not going to give him an entire series to entice me. He’s got to show me that he’s worth spending money on in the first comic or I won’t bother with him. If it’s great as a series I can respect that but if I disliked the first book I doubt that my mind would have been substantially changed. Enh. That’s up to you. I’m not going to prosyletize for Gaiman or _Sandman_. (Nor am I going to take his side in the intensely stupid issue of whether or not he is as famous as Lady Gaga.) I’m just pointing out that you have to be willing to give _Sandman_ a chance to “get going” in order to get anything out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559/40 "2010-10-18T21:56:50Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I’m just pointing out that you have to be willing to give _Sandman_ a chance to “get going” in order to get anything out of it. This is true of a lot of serial work. Most often the first few issues or seasons are ungainly while the newborn finds its stride, then afterward it really comes into its own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pop-culture-pulse-check/557559.md?page=3)